My mitrill miner (100% adept): receives this typical pattern from an 'M' symbol:
You destroy some Mitrill ore (10). x 6 = (60 ore lost)
You dig up Mitrill Ore (total of 49 ore) and drop it on the stack!
Each room varies with an 'M' symbol, but for each 'M' that I have mined in the last couple of weeks, the average resources mined is less than 50%. This goes with varied other Mitrill symbols of '+' and 'm' - nearly 50% ore obtained. Now on some occasions, I am lucky to go above that percentage - in some cases, I have been lucky to mine 100% of the resources from an 'm.' It happens to me maybe once-twice a day if I mine for several hours.
Is this reasonable? What are your thoughts on this? Curious ^^
Miners: Being "Adept" and "Rolls"
Started by Nellwyn on Mar 26, 2005 · 49 posts in thread
Nellwyn (#1)
Jorelani (#2)
I think so. It's not likely a person digging around is going to find every ounce of resource, or find every ore/gem they find to be usable (this is how it is in RL, afterall).
Nuitari (#3)
I think you shouldn't destroy any with 100% mastery, which is just that, one hundred percent mastery at mining a very specific type of resource. You aren't going to mess up over half the time on something you've dedicated your entire mining career to.
Jorelani (#4)
I could say sure, Nuitari, but I'm not. Because it'd be wrong to. 
Reason being becoming 100% adept is easily reachable by EVERYONE. It's nothing special and warrants no reward in itself.
Reason being becoming 100% adept is easily reachable by EVERYONE. It's nothing special and warrants no reward in itself.
weems (#5)
Depends on the resource. For mitrill thats true. For carnelian thats true. But 100% adept in say...Meteorite, is quite special and only reachable by people who have WAY too much time on their hands.Jorelani wrote:I could say sure, Nuitari, but I'm not. Because it'd be wrong to.
Reason being becoming 100% adept is easily reachable by EVERYONE. It's nothing special and warrants no reward in itself.
Gilgolad (#6)
I have time on my hands.
I may start an alt dedicated to just a super ore.
So which is the best ore you can get as a player, short of emeralite? Meteorite or Adamantite?
I may start an alt dedicated to just a super ore.
So which is the best ore you can get as a player, short of emeralite? Meteorite or Adamantite?
weems (#7)
BAhahahahahaha. Good luck. Btw, the best is Meteorite, followed directly by Adamantite.Gilgolad wrote:I have time on my hands.
I may start an alt dedicated to just a super ore.
So which is the best ore you can get as a player, short of emeralite? Meteorite or Adamantite?
Gilgolad (#8)
I figured id get a few people who think im nuts, but hey, a guy can dream cant he? And i willl try, but ill start up with another ore, like copper, go to 60 % or so, and just alternate with the ores, this way less is wasted. i can do the same trick with procesing.
Just think, if i succeed, everyone with the ore can come to me to get the maximum yeild from it. and for those who think im crazy, ill charge you triple
Just think, if i succeed, everyone with the ore can come to me to get the maximum yeild from it. and for those who think im crazy, ill charge you triple
Jorelani (#9)
Totally acceptable. But I would suggest a smaller rate of failure compared to other ores, instead of complete success. Unless one wants to make such resources very valuable.weems wrote:Depends on the resource. For mitrill thats true. For carnelian thats true. But 100% adept in say...Meteorite, is quite special and only reachable by people who have WAY too much time on their hands.
Nellwyn (#10)
Ores such as ada/met are rare enough to encounter. There isn't such a thing as a complete success as is O.o *please read 1st post* Ores are still quite valuable.Jorelani wrote:Totally acceptable. But I would suggest a smaller rate of failure compared to other ores, instead of complete success. Unless one wants to make such resources very valuable.
Also, for cele...I still can't mine citrine/carnelian properly on my cit/carn gem miner; yet I am getting various other gems. Was that supposed to be fixed? Curious ^^
Vogar Eol (#11)
I would say "Why put the metal there if a 100% miner is going to destroy it?" atleast unless some effect item improves your mining abilities. If that is the case, then heck... there should be some there for various improvements.
Personally, I find it utterly depressing to see so much good material destroyed so quickly....
Personally, I find it utterly depressing to see so much good material destroyed so quickly....
grykon (#12)
Mining has always puzzled me...I know for ease of programming and stuff certain things act like other things even though they shouldn't.
I can see why when your mining rock or gemstones, if your not 100 percent in that type of medium that your going to lose/destroy some/all of that resource, but ore shouldn't ever be destroyed, lost maybe...you might not get all of it as you didn't notice the taletell signs that the chunk of rock you just removed had some ore in it, but for the most part, even the smallest piece can still be melted down and used.
I think the limiting factor of ore should be in the smelting process and the length of time it takes to dig through the medium the ore is in. Rocks and gems are prone to stress cracks and as such, if your not 100% in that medium your going to lose resources of it.
I also think there should be a new type of rock, Marble.
And with that, I think it would be better that when you want to build a house/keep/castle/citadel whatever, instead of having to come up with all the money to buy it, why not allow people to go out and gather the materials...simple houses could be all wood, or wood/stone combo, each 'level' of house would require better and more materials. A castle would be mostle granite and wood and a citadel should be mainly marble and wood with some granite.
Obviously it would still cost some money to build structures (workers to do the work) but you could seriously offset the cost by supplying most or all of the building materials.
Just a few thoughts.
I can see why when your mining rock or gemstones, if your not 100 percent in that type of medium that your going to lose/destroy some/all of that resource, but ore shouldn't ever be destroyed, lost maybe...you might not get all of it as you didn't notice the taletell signs that the chunk of rock you just removed had some ore in it, but for the most part, even the smallest piece can still be melted down and used.
I think the limiting factor of ore should be in the smelting process and the length of time it takes to dig through the medium the ore is in. Rocks and gems are prone to stress cracks and as such, if your not 100% in that medium your going to lose resources of it.
I also think there should be a new type of rock, Marble.
And with that, I think it would be better that when you want to build a house/keep/castle/citadel whatever, instead of having to come up with all the money to buy it, why not allow people to go out and gather the materials...simple houses could be all wood, or wood/stone combo, each 'level' of house would require better and more materials. A castle would be mostle granite and wood and a citadel should be mainly marble and wood with some granite.
Obviously it would still cost some money to build structures (workers to do the work) but you could seriously offset the cost by supplying most or all of the building materials.
Just a few thoughts.
weems (#13)
Terrible ideas.
Although it would be more realistic to go with what you have said, it would definetly go against the entire grain of what the entire mining system has been built upon.
I have already been screwed enough as it is, I do not feel like getting screwed more.
Although it would be more realistic to go with what you have said, it would definetly go against the entire grain of what the entire mining system has been built upon.
I have already been screwed enough as it is, I do not feel like getting screwed more.
grykon (#14)
weems wrote:Terrible ideas.
Although it would be more realistic to go with what you have said, it would definetly go against the entire grain of what the entire mining system has been built upon.
I have already been screwed enough as it is, I do not feel like getting screwed more.
Would you care to elaborate on how or why they are terrible ideas? And just how would they 'screw' you?
weems (#15)
Alright. To paint the picture I'll need to go over the previous mines, which you are probably already familiar with, but whatever.grykon wrote:weems wrote:Terrible ideas.
Although it would be more realistic to go with what you have said, it would definetly go against the entire grain of what the entire mining system has been built upon.
I have already been screwed enough as it is, I do not feel like getting screwed more.
Would you care to elaborate on how or why they are terrible ideas? And just how would they 'screw' you?
Previous mining system was very similiar to this one, except you were blind, except by looking at the walls in the current room you were on. Different resources were found at different levels in the mines.
Mining both gems and ore was much harder on the old system. The results were more compacted. 100% in a resource guaranteed you would mine up a fair quantity of that resource, but if you tried mining up some OTHER resource, usually you got little to none, with the exception of very low stuff. Even gem mining, if you were 100% citrine mining, and tried to mine up so garnets, you only very rarely get any. If you were 100% mitrill mining and mined all the adamantite you saw, you would also get very little, it took a long time to accumulate.
Anyway, I worked my ass off and got to 100% adamantite mining, and high meteorite mining as well. Also managed to get some high percents in some upper level gems. The adamantite was paying off, the meteorite was just barely starting to yield some decent returns when the patch came.
Blam.
Now all of the sudden every single resource is easy to mine, regardless of your percents. It depended far more on luck than in having a high percent in a specific thing, when looking for the better ores. Also, the results were far less compacted...So a 100% mitrill miner only gets maybe 30 or 40% less meteorite than me, even though im over 90% in meteorite mining. This also applies to adamantite. Considering the amount of time I spent in the mines in order to get any quantity of meteorite at all, you can see how this might upset me.
Gems are in the same state. You can just go waltz over to any gem you see and pull it right up no problem. Blue diamonds? No problem, as long as you are good at junk gem mining, like citrine.
Anyway, all of this still has me extremely pissed off, to say the least.
You suggested that your mining percent in a specific ore type should have a negligable impact on the quantity mined, thus making it even WORSE for me. Why not just reset all my characters while you are at it, and spit on me?
I have no problem with your idea about mining marble and constructing buildings though.
grykon (#16)
weems wrote:Alright. To paint the picture I'll need to go over the previous mines, which you are probably already familiar with, but whatever.
Previous mining system was very similiar to this one, except you were blind, except by looking at the walls in the current room you were on. Different resources were found at different levels in the mines.
Mining both gems and ore was much harder on the old system. The results were more compacted. 100% in a resource guaranteed you would mine up a fair quantity of that resource, but if you tried mining up some OTHER resource, usually you got little to none, with the exception of very low stuff. Even gem mining, if you were 100% citrine mining, and tried to mine up so garnets, you only very rarely get any. If you were 100% mitrill mining and mined all the adamantite you saw, you would also get very little, it took a long time to accumulate.
Anyway, I worked my ass off and got to 100% adamantite mining, and high meteorite mining as well. Also managed to get some high percents in some upper level gems. The adamantite was paying off, the meteorite was just barely starting to yield some decent returns when the patch came.
Blam.
Now all of the sudden every single resource is easy to mine, regardless of your percents. It depended far more on luck than in having a high percent in a specific thing, when looking for the better ores. Also, the results were far less compacted...So a 100% mitrill miner only gets maybe 30 or 40% less meteorite than me, even though im over 90% in meteorite mining. This also applies to adamantite. Considering the amount of time I spent in the mines in order to get any quantity of meteorite at all, you can see how this might upset me.
Gems are in the same state. You can just go waltz over to any gem you see and pull it right up no problem. Blue diamonds? No problem, as long as you are good at junk gem mining, like citrine.
Anyway, all of this still has me extremely pissed off, to say the least.
You suggested that your mining percent in a specific ore type should have a negligable impact on the quantity mined, thus making it even WORSE for me. Why not just reset all my characters while you are at it, and spit on me?
I have no problem with your idea about mining marble and constructing buildings though.
Thanks for the clarification and your support on the marble and building construction!
Actually I enjoyed the old mine other then when people would drop into the room you spent 3 hours digging into and without even so much as asking would start digging the 'booty' out of the walls as you stood there helpless to do anything about it...though I think my mining of gems (citrine and carnies) was higher back then...might be wrong...seems like it though. And as a side note I think luck has its place in mining...it should offset some of the experience needed for mining and harvesting of usable material.
So when you say my ideas were terrible you meant only in the context of how the change in ore mining would negate all the 'blood, sweat and tears' you spent on getting your character(s) so high in adamantite and meteorite mining. I feel you there, I started working for a company 10+ years ago making usd 6.25 an hour and worked my way up to just over usd 12.50 an hour (5 years of blood, sweat and tears) only to have the company change the starting pay rate and people were then making $10 an hour just walking in the door...the part that really got me was when this one 'kid' was just standing around and I got on him about doing some work and he's like "They're only paying me 10 an hour, that's too much work for that." Talk about coming unglued.
Basically, it seems like there isn't anything they could do to make the mining part of the game appeal more to new comers (or even old players that have never mined) that would suit you because in some way it would bring them closer to your level without them going through what you did to get to where you are. And while I really can understand and feel your frustration on this point I guess I need to ask, how long will you feel this before a change can be made that you won't feel this way? Or what changes could be made that you would be agreeable with that would make mining more appealing to others? Is it the quantity of material people are pulling out of the mine that offends you, or are you worried it will (or has) lower(ed) the value of what your mining/making to sale to people?
And just for the record, I would never spit on you or want your characters reset...You're alts have made some fine items for me that I am very appreciative of...I'm just trying to discuss my thoughts and feelings about this area.
I was reading another thread this morning about mining and saw some of this same discussion about percentages and stuff like that being mined and the last thing I want to do is get that started in another thread, I'm more curious about what could be done that would make the craft more appealing but wouldn't upset those who were 'masters' in it before the changes.
Isabelle (#17)
you got it, it's a difficult job to make crafts/mining enjoyable for new players (or - new miners) and still try to retain interest for the veteran player.
sure, the oldschool player who has a stranglehold on a particular resource will cry and complain because now they and their elitist group can't do the whole 'price-fixing' thing.
There are some things i would like to see changed, i wouldn't call the newest change perfect, but it does cater to new players, and for that reason alone, i embrace it.
The veteran players complain all the time that Dark Legacy is too hard for new players, and that we are making it too difficult, you notice that when we go ahead and make it easier, suddenly they aren't so happy about making it easier anymore
(changes i would like to see - would be more emphasis placed on a players skill level when mining for 'rare-type' resources)
sure, the oldschool player who has a stranglehold on a particular resource will cry and complain because now they and their elitist group can't do the whole 'price-fixing' thing.
There are some things i would like to see changed, i wouldn't call the newest change perfect, but it does cater to new players, and for that reason alone, i embrace it.
The veteran players complain all the time that Dark Legacy is too hard for new players, and that we are making it too difficult, you notice that when we go ahead and make it easier, suddenly they aren't so happy about making it easier anymore
(changes i would like to see - would be more emphasis placed on a players skill level when mining for 'rare-type' resources)
weems (#18)
I have said this before, and I will say it again. Mining has ALWAYS been an interest for new players, even in the old system. You will notice that if you dig up old threads, that people were complaining that the old mines were too small because of the steady increase in the number of people mining.Isabelle wrote:you got it, it's a difficult job to make crafts/mining enjoyable for new players (or - new miners) and still try to retain interest for the veteran player.
sure, the oldschool player who has a stranglehold on a particular resource will cry and complain because now they and their elitist group can't do the whole 'price-fixing' thing.
There are some things i would like to see changed, i wouldn't call the newest change perfect, but it does cater to new players, and for that reason alone, i embrace it.
The veteran players complain all the time that Dark Legacy is too hard for new players, and that we are making it too difficult, you notice that when we go ahead and make it easier, suddenly they aren't so happy about making it easier anymore
(changes i would like to see - would be more emphasis placed on a players skill level when mining for 'rare-type' resources)
Thus, making your point moot.
Gilgolad (#19)
You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time. 
Ya just gotta suck it up if something isn't going your way.
This is why liberals are so dangerous, they try to appease too many people at once.
Ya just gotta suck it up if something isn't going your way.
This is why liberals are so dangerous, they try to appease too many people at once.
grykon (#20)
I believe her point is far from moot, Like you I think the Mining skill starts out as an item of interest to all players, but in the old system I think interest decreased quickly. And that is where the problem was...retaining miners.
The new system seems to make mining easier thereby giving newer miners a chance to harvest some of the more exotic materials instead of having to go out and find 50k+ to pay someone for an item. Or selling the material to other players...The advantage you immeadiately have is you don't have to work your way up to 100% or whatever percentage you have in a material like new miners.
Just as an example I have mined for 3 days about 12-15 hours and found 1 wall of obvious adamantite, with a 60% total mining skill 0% in adamantite I dug the wall, took 7 digs, got 6 pieces of adamantite (1 per dig), destroyed 5 (in one dig) and it was all gone, my skill was now 1.24%...personally I think that stinks, but it seems fair overall in the current game setting.
Maybe it is a little unfair because I didn't have to dig down to 1000 ft or whatever, I was at the border of granite and had weaved a trail a snake would love to find...I just don't see how it really affects users who have had 100% before...other then in theory, they could reach 100% a little faster then you did...the biggest difference now is, there are far more places to mine and that much more resources to find without competition making it more fun to do so.
Obviously my idea would affect miners who are 100% in some ore mining, but the current system, I don't see it...
The new system seems to make mining easier thereby giving newer miners a chance to harvest some of the more exotic materials instead of having to go out and find 50k+ to pay someone for an item. Or selling the material to other players...The advantage you immeadiately have is you don't have to work your way up to 100% or whatever percentage you have in a material like new miners.
Just as an example I have mined for 3 days about 12-15 hours and found 1 wall of obvious adamantite, with a 60% total mining skill 0% in adamantite I dug the wall, took 7 digs, got 6 pieces of adamantite (1 per dig), destroyed 5 (in one dig) and it was all gone, my skill was now 1.24%...personally I think that stinks, but it seems fair overall in the current game setting.
Maybe it is a little unfair because I didn't have to dig down to 1000 ft or whatever, I was at the border of granite and had weaved a trail a snake would love to find...I just don't see how it really affects users who have had 100% before...other then in theory, they could reach 100% a little faster then you did...the biggest difference now is, there are far more places to mine and that much more resources to find without competition making it more fun to do so.
Obviously my idea would affect miners who are 100% in some ore mining, but the current system, I don't see it...
weems (#21)
Again, the old mines were extremely popular. I don't know why you and Isabelle will not concede this FACT. I will say this yet again:grykon wrote:I believe her point is far from moot, Like you I think the Mining skill starts out as an item of interest to all players, but in the old system I think interest decreased quickly. And that is where the problem was...retaining miners.
The new system seems to make mining easier thereby giving newer miners a chance to harvest some of the more exotic materials instead of having to go out and find 50k+ to pay someone for an item. Or selling the material to other players...The advantage you immeadiately have is you don't have to work your way up to 100% or whatever percentage you have in a material like new miners.
Just as an example I have mined for 3 days about 12-15 hours and found 1 wall of obvious adamantite, with a 60% total mining skill 0% in adamantite I dug the wall, took 7 digs, got 6 pieces of adamantite (1 per dig), destroyed 5 (in one dig) and it was all gone, my skill was now 1.24%...personally I think that stinks, but it seems fair overall in the current game setting.
Maybe it is a little unfair because I didn't have to dig down to 1000 ft or whatever, I was at the border of granite and had weaved a trail a snake would love to find...I just don't see how it really affects users who have had 100% before...other then in theory, they could reach 100% a little faster then you did...the biggest difference now is, there are far more places to mine and that much more resources to find without competition making it more fun to do so.
Obviously my idea would affect miners who are 100% in some ore mining, but the current system, I don't see it...
You can look back and see threads about how the old mines were getting crowded due to popularity.
The longer the mines were open, the more popular they were. The new mines are no more apt to attract new people than the old ones. The only difference is that now its really really really easy to get anything.
And in response to your mining adamantite, try doing it with a 100% mitrill miner if you have one, or any 100% ore miner. You will find it to be easier. Also, you have to realize, rarity of a resource in terms of how many blocks there are only makes the situation WORSE for people who adepted it. Why? Because it makes extra percents gained more meaningless.
Now lets say I can findone obvious chunk of meteorite for every 15 hours of mining. That is a constant, and is no different no matter who is mining, as long as they mine in the same fashion, staying on the bottom level and looking for capital M's. Alright, now lets say the 100% mitrill miner gets 5 ore from each obvious chunk on average, and that I get 9. So that means for every 15 hours I mine, I get 4 more meteorite ore than the next guy. So if we both mined for 500 hours, I get a 133 ore advantage over him.
Now, you may say thats not so bad...But lets remember how much time I spent getting my meteorite mining to a level where you can actually get that much meteorite. If I had instead spent that time mining all meteorite with a 100% mitrill miner in the new system, instead of trying to put it on a fresh miner and get percents, I would now have /FAR/ more meteorite than I currently have.
It would take me probably about a real life YEAR of mining to negate the losses from putting my time into meteorite mining, caused by the new system.
And Isabelle, you can in no way compare pre-epic levelling to mining. Sorry, but thats just stupid.
grykon (#22)
Just wanted to say a couple of things here...caps and enlarging the type does not in anyway help persuade someone of the logic to your way of thinking...just FYI.weems wrote:Again, the old mines were extremely popular. I don't know why you and Isabelle will not concede this FACT. I will say this yet again:
You can look back and see threads about how the old mines were getting crowded due to popularity.
I never said mining wasn't popular...but in new comers, more often then not, within a weeks time a good deal of them were no longer doing it...but there always seemed to be plenty of people signing on and trying it. I can't speak about Isabelle, but I am speaking of retention and attraction, I think she is speaking of attraction to crafting in general...and the problems of over crowding have been virtually removed unless a bunch of people happen to like the same general area.
If your telling me, that as a 100% adamantite miner, you can mine a obvious chunk wall of adamantite and only get 9 ore of adamantite then the problem isn't how much others are getting, but how much your getting. obvious chunks of one resource should be the same as any other, otherwise it shouldn't leave the degree of minute.
To me, the way the mining seems to be written you, (as 100% adamantite) should be getting 50 times what I got based on the same wall type. In your earlier post you said 100% Adamantite and now you keep saying Mitrill...which is it? If it is 100% Mitrill then by the current system you really shouldn't get much more then me in an ore your not a master of.
weems (#23)
grykon wrote:Just wanted to say a couple of things here...caps and enlarging the type does not in anyway help persuade someone of the logic to your way of thinking...just FYI.weems wrote:Again, the old mines were extremely popular. I don't know why you and Isabelle will not concede this FACT. I will say this yet again:
You can look back and see threads about how the old mines were getting crowded due to popularity.
I never said mining wasn't popular...but in new comers, more often then not, within a weeks time a good deal of them were no longer doing it...but there always seemed to be plenty of people signing on and trying it. I can't speak about Isabelle, but I am speaking of retention and attraction, I think she is speaking of attraction to crafting in general...and the problems of over crowding have been virtually removed unless a bunch of people happen to like the same general area.
If your telling me, that as a 100% adamantite miner, you can mine a obvious chunk wall of adamantite and only get 9 ore of adamantite then the problem isn't how much others are getting, but how much your getting. obvious chunks of one resource should be the same as any other, otherwise it shouldn't leave the degree of minute.
To me, the way the mining seems to be written you, (as 100% adamantite) should be getting 50 times what I got based on the same wall type. In your earlier post you said 100% Adamantite and now you keep saying Mitrill...which is it? If it is 100% Mitrill then by the current system you really shouldn't get much more then me in an ore your not a master of.
For the last time, the popularity of the mines was steadily increasing. Yes, some people left, but over time, more and more people were mining, not less. More and more people.
More. And. More. People. As in, the quantity of people mining at a later date was greater than (>) the quantity of people mining at an earlier date. I don't see how I can be any more clear.
And I personally never had any problems with crowding, I was just saying that people complaining about crowding was a good indicator that mining was not an unpopular thing even in the old system. MANY people did it, and more people were learning it all the time, and retaining it.
And yes, the problem IS how much other people are getting. A full adamantite reforge takes only 156 ingots, so even as a master adamantite miner, I do not need to get thousands upon thousands of ingots very quickly for it to be profitable for me. Relatative to only myself, I'm perfectly happy with the rate of adamantite I am digging. But relative to other people, I am not. Considering the low quantity required to make a full reforge, I feel that anybody who isn't adept or near adept in a higher class resource should get virtually none at all.
And...I do not understand your last paragraph.
Quintos (#24)
The current mining system is completely out of whack. The problem is not how much the adept miners are getting...no one should be getting large amounts of adamantite and better. If you want usable amounts of high ores and gems, you should need to practice it a lot. If you're not focused in adamantite, you should not be mining adamantite. Hell, if you're not focused in mitrill, you should not be mining mitrill. Mitrill is easy enough to find that you can adept it relatively easily.
I was never a big miner, but I managed to mine or trade for all the materials I needed for my equipment. No one NEEDS anything better than mitrill to be successful. People rarely even NEED mitrill, but it should be available, which it always was. I remember when I was forced to pay a few hundred thousand gold for the mitrill I wanted to reforge one weapon. I also remember later when I started mining mitrill when I was able to reforge whatever I wanted. At the time, I had thought the price of mitrill was outrageous, but really...it wasn't. And no, I do not just feel this way because I sold mitrill...I never sold my resources other than bronze.
100% mitrill miners should get, if their lucky, one adamantite ore off of a wall. A 50% adamantite miner should get a couple pieces. A 100% adamantite miner should get decent amounts, but still no more than they currently get.
Like Weems said, the old mines were popular enough and becoming even more popular. Not everyone was staying, but enough were to have competition in selling mitrill and even adamantite to a small degree.
I was never a big miner, but I managed to mine or trade for all the materials I needed for my equipment. No one NEEDS anything better than mitrill to be successful. People rarely even NEED mitrill, but it should be available, which it always was. I remember when I was forced to pay a few hundred thousand gold for the mitrill I wanted to reforge one weapon. I also remember later when I started mining mitrill when I was able to reforge whatever I wanted. At the time, I had thought the price of mitrill was outrageous, but really...it wasn't. And no, I do not just feel this way because I sold mitrill...I never sold my resources other than bronze.
100% mitrill miners should get, if their lucky, one adamantite ore off of a wall. A 50% adamantite miner should get a couple pieces. A 100% adamantite miner should get decent amounts, but still no more than they currently get.
Like Weems said, the old mines were popular enough and becoming even more popular. Not everyone was staying, but enough were to have competition in selling mitrill and even adamantite to a small degree.
Isabelle (#25)
the old mines were elitist.
you and i know that steady work would yield the resources, but resources were not readily available for a new player. They found out that it involved alot of time, and suddenly mining became real old, real fast.
Thats how it was, perhaps some players think that the mines were becoming used more often, that may be so, there /were more/ miners in the mines, BUT, they were not new players, they were current miners who were simply making more miner alts. (and there was the whole (certain someone) who had like 4+ mining accounts and eventually got caught)
New players were barely mining, except for a very small number.
the rest would simply get tired and end up buying the resources from a hardcore miner.
If you wish to say i'm wrong, go ahead, but i know what i say to be correct. So we will just have to keep our contrary positions on this issue.
you and i know that steady work would yield the resources, but resources were not readily available for a new player. They found out that it involved alot of time, and suddenly mining became real old, real fast.
Thats how it was, perhaps some players think that the mines were becoming used more often, that may be so, there /were more/ miners in the mines, BUT, they were not new players, they were current miners who were simply making more miner alts. (and there was the whole (certain someone) who had like 4+ mining accounts and eventually got caught)
New players were barely mining, except for a very small number.
the rest would simply get tired and end up buying the resources from a hardcore miner.
If you wish to say i'm wrong, go ahead, but i know what i say to be correct. So we will just have to keep our contrary positions on this issue.
grykon (#26)
From your last post it sounds like Isabella hit it on the head...You claim to be happy with what you get and its only because others are getting some that you are upset (because they haven't gone through all you have gone through.)
Though I noticed you have answered very few (if any) of the questions I have asked of you. Everything is about keeping (for as long as possible) everything (special ores) for yourself...
Just because you were happy with the old system and didn't have a problem with over-crowding/whatever problem, doesn't mean that everyone else was happy. Obviously there was enough complaints/requests for changes that inspired Celeborn to recode the mines and come up with new values for the resources.
You can't say that the new system unbalances the items, (it appears our individual data is very simuliar on finding adamantite) 15 hours (approximately) for 5 adamantite (about 25 for mitrill for me), it would take me 6 sets of 15 hours of mining to get enough mitrill or 32 sets of 15 hours to get enough adamantite for 1 reforge...so 90 hours to get enough mitrill and 480 hours to get enough adamantite (over 10 weeks of a full time job.)
Using your data, 9 every 15 hours that's 18 sets or 270 hours, (you can't make me believe your happy with that)...but you are doing it 210 hours faster...if we were directly competing against each other to sell adamantite to other users, there is no way (unless I just didn't value my time) I could beat the price you could offer, after all, you can mine it much faster then I can.
Though I noticed you have answered very few (if any) of the questions I have asked of you. Everything is about keeping (for as long as possible) everything (special ores) for yourself...
Just because you were happy with the old system and didn't have a problem with over-crowding/whatever problem, doesn't mean that everyone else was happy. Obviously there was enough complaints/requests for changes that inspired Celeborn to recode the mines and come up with new values for the resources.
You can't say that the new system unbalances the items, (it appears our individual data is very simuliar on finding adamantite) 15 hours (approximately) for 5 adamantite (about 25 for mitrill for me), it would take me 6 sets of 15 hours of mining to get enough mitrill or 32 sets of 15 hours to get enough adamantite for 1 reforge...so 90 hours to get enough mitrill and 480 hours to get enough adamantite (over 10 weeks of a full time job.)
Using your data, 9 every 15 hours that's 18 sets or 270 hours, (you can't make me believe your happy with that)...but you are doing it 210 hours faster...if we were directly competing against each other to sell adamantite to other users, there is no way (unless I just didn't value my time) I could beat the price you could offer, after all, you can mine it much faster then I can.
Quintos (#27)
Isabelle, what is wrong with those who are not willing to put in the time buying metals from hardcore miners? Perhaps its just me, but they shouldn't be doing everything with just their one account...
weems (#28)
No, I'm talking more and more PLAYERS, as in individual people, were mining. I also know what I say to be correct. I remember when I first started mining.Isabelle wrote:the old mines were elitist.
you and i know that steady work would yield the resources, but resources were not readily available for a new player. They found out that it involved alot of time, and suddenly mining became real old, real fast.
Thats how it was, perhaps some players think that the mines were becoming used more often, that may be so, there /were more/ miners in the mines, BUT, they were not new players, they were current miners who were simply making more miner alts. (and there was the whole (certain someone) who had like 4+ mining accounts and eventually got caught)
New players were barely mining, except for a very small number.
the rest would simply get tired and end up buying the resources from a hardcore miner.
If you wish to say i'm wrong, go ahead, but i know what i say to be correct. So we will just have to keep our contrary positions on this issue.
It was me, Eventine, Hardraak, and Gaitika. We were the only ones who regularly mined at that time. That isn't to say we were the only ones who had percents or did it, but at that time we were the only ones actively doing it. At any given time there were 2 - 3 of us in there.
As time went on, more and more PLAYERS mined.
True, new people didn't mine much, but they still don't, and should they? Mining is a fairly advanced craft, and is really something that you only get curious about after you have established yourself. Every newbie I have seen in this new system is too involved with trying to get to tri-avatar to deal with mining, same as with the old system.
I do not feel that you should have to sacrifice the challenge of mining so that new people can have get free resources handed to them. And no, do not even think of comparing this to pre-epic levelling, they are completely different.
And if you want to call hard work and dedication elitist, then so be it. I guess I'm an elitist then. Pardon me for feeling that the best resources in the game should take some hard work to get.
weems (#29)
You are absolutely correct. Seeing how I am the only person who put the effort in, I feel I should be the only person to have the rights to such resources, until somebody else puts the effort in as well.grykon wrote:From your last post it sounds like Isabella hit it on the head...You claim to be happy with what you get and its only because others are getting some that you are upset (because they haven't gone through all you have gone through.)
Though I noticed you have answered very few (if any) of the questions I have asked of you. Everything is about keeping (for as long as possible) everything (special ores) for yourself...
Just because you were happy with the old system and didn't have a problem with over-crowding/whatever problem, doesn't mean that everyone else was happy. Obviously there was enough complaints/requests for changes that inspired Celeborn to recode the mines and come up with new values for the resources.
You can't say that the new system unbalances the items, (it appears our individual data is very simuliar on finding adamantite) 15 hours (approximately) for 5 adamantite (about 25 for mitrill for me), it would take me 6 sets of 15 hours of mining to get enough mitrill or 32 sets of 15 hours to get enough adamantite for 1 reforge...so 90 hours to get enough mitrill and 480 hours to get enough adamantite (over 10 weeks of a full time job.)
Using your data, 9 every 15 hours that's 18 sets or 270 hours, (you can't make me believe your happy with that)...but you are doing it 210 hours faster...if we were directly competing against each other to sell adamantite to other users, there is no way (unless I just didn't value my time) I could beat the price you could offer, after all, you can mine it much faster then I can.
I have answered every question you have asked, besides the ones I clearly told you I didn't understand, seeking clarification.
My data for mining adamantite was exaggerated to illustrate the point, but in the opposite manner. Meaning, its actually worse than I described. Ask around, any of the current dedicated miners have no touble getting some adamantite, certainly enough for a reforge in not THAT much time. Same for meteorite.
And this isn't even touching the gem part of it, which both of you seem to have ironically ignored.
News flash!
You can mine up every single gem you come across with zero problems. Even 1 gem per dig is a ton, because it only takes 1 gem for an attempt.
To me it just sounds like:
People don't like to work for resources, even if they are the best in the game, and would prefer if they just poured out of the ground. So screw Ocardus, who cares if he gets shafted. Tough luck, he should stop whining.
grykon (#30)
Well first, I am not going to ask around what others are doing/getting, this was/is a simple debate between a few people, if they want to come here and add their points that's fine, I spoke as truthfully as possible and now all of a sudden, your making things up? So then...are you making up how many your 100% adamantite miner is getting? I would say yep...obviously this is just a bunch of hooey on your part, lots of smoke and mirrors.
Just because you spent an ungodly amount of time in the old system does not give you the exclusive right to anything period. What you should be more proud of is people who have always appreciated your work and thought enough of you as a person to buy/trade with you for the things they needed instead of standing here tarnishing that image.
As for questions...you really haven't answered very many, mainly you just keep stating your position and telling me lies about what people are getting...here are some of the questions I have asked that you never addressed...
I also asked you to clarify if you were speaking of your miner as a 100% adamantite miner or a 100% mitrill miner, and also stated that anything that isn't a 100% adamantite miner should get the same amount as any other non-adamantite miner, just because the miner knows mitrill shouldn't give them an advantage on adamantite.
Jumping to gems (when did I ever address a problem with how the mining process didn't work with gems?) It is my belief that the gem part of the mining process is okay...except...for some reason, it seems citrine and carnies are harder to mine out then garnets/topaz/obsidian/diamond (don't know about blues...haven't found any.
Isabella or Cele, if you read this you might want to look at it...I have seen other reports on here about the same thing, but it still seems to be true. I mine a obvious chunk wall of cit or carn (mainly carnies) and I will almost 4 to 1 walls lose every gem, the ones that don't I will get 1...the other gem types I will get 1 to 4 gems depending on type of wall every time. (not really complaining about that, just seems weird about the cits and carnies! *laugh*)
Who's talking about not working for it, or it flowing out of the ground? My original idea might have it flow out of the ground, but the real problem would be processing it properly for use. You call 15 hours of online digging through the mine for 5 ore of adamantite not work? maybe if you have triggers set up to handle just about any problem/situation so you set it up and walk away you don't work for it, but I know I for one do not, I do have simple triggers that work on 1 wall at a time, collect my resources and get a new pick if I break one...other wise I am right there watching the screen, checking the mines over and over to see if I want to change directions or anything else.
In the future if you want to debate an idea, stick with facts as you know them, don't make things up, when it is found out you just look stupid and any credibility you had with the opposing person vanishes. I give you C for at least admiting you was blowing hot air.
Just because you spent an ungodly amount of time in the old system does not give you the exclusive right to anything period. What you should be more proud of is people who have always appreciated your work and thought enough of you as a person to buy/trade with you for the things they needed instead of standing here tarnishing that image.
As for questions...you really haven't answered very many, mainly you just keep stating your position and telling me lies about what people are getting...here are some of the questions I have asked that you never addressed...
You did answer part of one question in there. The last paragraph you didn't understand is basically saying - To me a 100% adamantite miner should be getting 50 times what a non adept gets from an adamantite obvious chunked wall.grykon wrote:And while I really can understand and feel your frustration on this point I guess I need to ask, how long will you feel this before a change can be made that you won't feel this way? Or what changes could be made that you would be agreeable with that would make mining more appealing to others? Is it the quantity of material people are pulling out of the mine that offends you, or are you worried it will (or has) lower(ed) the value of what your mining/making to sale to people?
I also asked you to clarify if you were speaking of your miner as a 100% adamantite miner or a 100% mitrill miner, and also stated that anything that isn't a 100% adamantite miner should get the same amount as any other non-adamantite miner, just because the miner knows mitrill shouldn't give them an advantage on adamantite.
Jumping to gems (when did I ever address a problem with how the mining process didn't work with gems?) It is my belief that the gem part of the mining process is okay...except...for some reason, it seems citrine and carnies are harder to mine out then garnets/topaz/obsidian/diamond (don't know about blues...haven't found any.
Isabella or Cele, if you read this you might want to look at it...I have seen other reports on here about the same thing, but it still seems to be true. I mine a obvious chunk wall of cit or carn (mainly carnies) and I will almost 4 to 1 walls lose every gem, the ones that don't I will get 1...the other gem types I will get 1 to 4 gems depending on type of wall every time. (not really complaining about that, just seems weird about the cits and carnies! *laugh*)
Who's talking about not working for it, or it flowing out of the ground? My original idea might have it flow out of the ground, but the real problem would be processing it properly for use. You call 15 hours of online digging through the mine for 5 ore of adamantite not work? maybe if you have triggers set up to handle just about any problem/situation so you set it up and walk away you don't work for it, but I know I for one do not, I do have simple triggers that work on 1 wall at a time, collect my resources and get a new pick if I break one...other wise I am right there watching the screen, checking the mines over and over to see if I want to change directions or anything else.
In the future if you want to debate an idea, stick with facts as you know them, don't make things up, when it is found out you just look stupid and any credibility you had with the opposing person vanishes. I give you C for at least admiting you was blowing hot air.
Kiasyn (#31)
just out of curiosity... how many other resources are you getting as well in this 15 hours of mining..Grykon wrote:Who's talking about not working for it, or it flowing out of the ground? My original idea might have it flow out of the ground, but the real problem would be processing it properly for use. You call 15 hours of online digging through the mine for 5 ore of adamantite not work? maybe if you have triggers set up to handle just about any problem/situation so you set it up and walk away you don't work for it, but I know I for one do not, I do have simple triggers that work on 1 wall at a time, collect my resources and get a new pick if I break one...other wise I am right there watching the screen, checking the mines over and over to see if I want to change directions or anything else.
weems (#32)
If you want the nitty gritty on what people are getting, please visit the old mining thread. Plenty of real examples there and tangible results, copy/pastes. Don't accuse me of 'making things up'. Go look at the threads for examples, and you will see that things are actually worse than I portrayed here.grykon wrote:Well first, I am not going to ask around what others are doing/getting, this was/is a simple debate between a few people, if they want to come here and add their points that's fine, I spoke as truthfully as possible and now all of a sudden, your making things up? So then...are you making up how many your 100% adamantite miner is getting? I would say yep...obviously this is just a bunch of hooey on your part, lots of smoke and mirrors.
Just because you spent an ungodly amount of time in the old system does not give you the exclusive right to anything period. What you should be more proud of is people who have always appreciated your work and thought enough of you as a person to buy/trade with you for the things they needed instead of standing here tarnishing that image.
As for questions...you really haven't answered very many, mainly you just keep stating your position and telling me lies about what people are getting...here are some of the questions I have asked that you never addressed...
You did answer part of one question in there. The last paragraph you didn't understand is basically saying - To me a 100% adamantite miner should be getting 50 times what a non adept gets from an adamantite obvious chunked wall.grykon wrote:And while I really can understand and feel your frustration on this point I guess I need to ask, how long will you feel this before a change can be made that you won't feel this way? Or what changes could be made that you would be agreeable with that would make mining more appealing to others? Is it the quantity of material people are pulling out of the mine that offends you, or are you worried it will (or has) lower(ed) the value of what your mining/making to sale to people?
I also asked you to clarify if you were speaking of your miner as a 100% adamantite miner or a 100% mitrill miner, and also stated that anything that isn't a 100% adamantite miner should get the same amount as any other non-adamantite miner, just because the miner knows mitrill shouldn't give them an advantage on adamantite.
Jumping to gems (when did I ever address a problem with how the mining process didn't work with gems?) It is my belief that the gem part of the mining process is okay...except...for some reason, it seems citrine and carnies are harder to mine out then garnets/topaz/obsidian/diamond (don't know about blues...haven't found any.
Isabella or Cele, if you read this you might want to look at it...I have seen other reports on here about the same thing, but it still seems to be true. I mine a obvious chunk wall of cit or carn (mainly carnies) and I will almost 4 to 1 walls lose every gem, the ones that don't I will get 1...the other gem types I will get 1 to 4 gems depending on type of wall every time. (not really complaining about that, just seems weird about the cits and carnies! *laugh*)
Who's talking about not working for it, or it flowing out of the ground? My original idea might have it flow out of the ground, but the real problem would be processing it properly for use. You call 15 hours of online digging through the mine for 5 ore of adamantite not work? maybe if you have triggers set up to handle just about any problem/situation so you set it up and walk away you don't work for it, but I know I for one do not, I do have simple triggers that work on 1 wall at a time, collect my resources and get a new pick if I break one...other wise I am right there watching the screen, checking the mines over and over to see if I want to change directions or anything else.
In the future if you want to debate an idea, stick with facts as you know them, don't make things up, when it is found out you just look stupid and any credibility you had with the opposing person vanishes. I give you C for at least admiting you was blowing hot air.
Also, many people have noticed that the difficulty of mining gems seems to be inverted. I have brought it to both Celeborns and Isabelle's attention MANY times. Every time I have either been ignored or told that I am full of crap, maybe not in those exact words.
I don't care if my image is tarnished or whatever. I have never cared what anybody but my close friends have thought of me, and all of them happen to agree with me on these points. I worked hard for what I felt was to be my right to mine the best player attainable ores in the game, only to have it given to everybody as if it was nothing.
Yes, I don't call that work at all, considering the shear quantity of ridiculous gems and ores you can mine up in the process. POURING out of the ground.
When I mentioned a 100% Mitrill miner, I was referring to you. Get a miner to 100% in Mitrill, and use that exclusively for all your ore mining, except maybe bronze.
And if you want to know the real problem with your idea of having it be processing limited, it is this:
It implies that it would be much easier to pull out of the ground, and then having to adept processing. Problem is, it only takes 1,600 attempts to adept any craft. So if you had it pour from the ground, you could just then process it 1 at a time, quickly adept processing in any high ore, and have THOUSANDS of ingots. Sorry, but thats not a good system.
I stand by my points, and my points from prior threads. The people who are in favor of this system are the people who like to abuse it for resources, whereas the people who are opposed to it like the system better when its fair and difficult to get high gems and ores.
grykon (#33)
Kia - In the last 13 hours of mining I have acquired:
portal 1
Copper ore (245)
Mitrill ore (19)
Uncut carnelian (2)
Uncut citrine (3)
Uncut diamond (3)
Uncut garnet (20)
Uncut jade (3)
Uncut obsidian (3)
Uncut sapphire (5)
Uncut topaz (11)
Uncut zircon
portal 2
Adamantite ore (3)
Bronze ingot (726)
Copper ore (145)
Iron ingot (1228)
Iron ore (50)
Mitrill ore (21)
Uncut carnelian (14)
Uncut citrine (3)
Uncut garnet (6)
Uncut obsidian (4)
Uncut sapphire (17)
Uncut topaz (18 ) edited so it displayed the numbers instead of a smiley
Uncut zircon (2)
Weems - I am not going back there for any other information, this is where we were having our discussion and get off your high horse you admitted you made up/exagerated your data you posted, so I didn't accuse you of squat.
I'm sorry to hear that they have ignored you or whatever about the gems, they are in the wrong for doing so, there is a problem there.
Tell me...when you were first starting to mine adamantite, what percentage where you when you first got some adamantite and please don't exagerate, if you don't remember, just say so its okay. Point is, even if people we in the old system, if they mined around and found a pocket of adamantite like we do now, you gain experience and if the rolls work right, you get some ore period. So your arguement doesn't hold water. If your unhappy that it seems your not getting much more then a clumsy ape, that needs to be looked at an addressed, everyone should have a chance to harvest the ore period. You'll never make me believe you didn't get any adamantite ore until you were 100% in it.
I'm not interested in a 100% mitrill miner...I mine for my own needs, I don't see a need to be 100% in it to get what I need to do what I want. But thanks for the advise I might try it if I ever find enough ore to do so.
If the process was the same as it is now, your right...trying to limit the amount of ingots would fail in that context, my point is, that the processing of the metal should be harder and more prone to failure and material lost due to a process failure is not recoverable...since no one asked further about my idea I didn't explain it any further then the basics, we just got into debating the ore part of the problem.
portal 1
Copper ore (245)
Mitrill ore (19)
Uncut carnelian (2)
Uncut citrine (3)
Uncut diamond (3)
Uncut garnet (20)
Uncut jade (3)
Uncut obsidian (3)
Uncut sapphire (5)
Uncut topaz (11)
Uncut zircon
portal 2
Adamantite ore (3)
Bronze ingot (726)
Copper ore (145)
Iron ingot (1228)
Iron ore (50)
Mitrill ore (21)
Uncut carnelian (14)
Uncut citrine (3)
Uncut garnet (6)
Uncut obsidian (4)
Uncut sapphire (17)
Uncut topaz (18 ) edited so it displayed the numbers instead of a smiley
Uncut zircon (2)
Weems - I am not going back there for any other information, this is where we were having our discussion and get off your high horse you admitted you made up/exagerated your data you posted, so I didn't accuse you of squat.
I'm sorry to hear that they have ignored you or whatever about the gems, they are in the wrong for doing so, there is a problem there.
Tell me...when you were first starting to mine adamantite, what percentage where you when you first got some adamantite and please don't exagerate, if you don't remember, just say so its okay. Point is, even if people we in the old system, if they mined around and found a pocket of adamantite like we do now, you gain experience and if the rolls work right, you get some ore period. So your arguement doesn't hold water. If your unhappy that it seems your not getting much more then a clumsy ape, that needs to be looked at an addressed, everyone should have a chance to harvest the ore period. You'll never make me believe you didn't get any adamantite ore until you were 100% in it.
I'm not interested in a 100% mitrill miner...I mine for my own needs, I don't see a need to be 100% in it to get what I need to do what I want. But thanks for the advise I might try it if I ever find enough ore to do so.
If the process was the same as it is now, your right...trying to limit the amount of ingots would fail in that context, my point is, that the processing of the metal should be harder and more prone to failure and material lost due to a process failure is not recoverable...since no one asked further about my idea I didn't explain it any further then the basics, we just got into debating the ore part of the problem.
Kiasyn (#34)
and what depth are you mining at?
weems (#35)
Alright kiasyn, he started pasting portals, I leave the rest to you.kiasyn wrote:and what depth are you mining at?
Isabelle (#36)
Quintos, to respond - one of my previous posts specifically mentioned the fact that i think people with higher skill levels should be rewarded accordingly, of that i'm sure there would be no arguement, i said something (along the lines of)
"i like the new system for the sole reason that it invites new player participation - but the numbers do need to be tweaked"
"i like the new system for the sole reason that it invites new player participation - but the numbers do need to be tweaked"
grykon (#37)
kiasyn wrote:and what depth are you mining at?
More or less mining straight down to the last level of lime, and mining around, occasionally into the granite to see what is down there, or up a level in lime to see if there is anything there I might want.
Weems - of course I pasted the portals...what should I have done to please you? just said oh...maybe 3 mitrill, 20 copper, 15 iron, half a adamantite and a bunch of other ridiculous numbers? Kiasyn asked how many other resources I got during the 15 hours of mining, I have no reason to hide, distort or exagerate that information.
Gilgolad (#38)
It all boils down to a few simple points:
1: People with 100% in something rare have put in the time and now anyone can get alot of what they worked hard to achieve.
2: Said people are now upset that they are getting screwed. (I feel for ya.)
3: Mining is too easy now.
4: There is a rift between lazy people and hard working people, hence the dispute over "Make it simple" and "Make it the way it used to be"
Now what i feel could solve SOME of these problems is this:
I personally don't understand why a 100%stone miner can get anything he wants, ie: gems, rare ores. I think that a person's adept should determin what he can yank out of the mud. If a person has 100% granite mining, then he should only succed at granite mining. He Does have 100% mining in general, but that should only count for a little. There are 3 breakdowns: Mining, then your type of mining (stone, gemstone, ore), then your specialty. So, a stone minier should not be able to strip mine gems and ores. A gem miner shouldn't be able to succesfully stripmin ores and stone, ect. But, because of that breakdown, lets say you have 100%mining , then you have 33% mining IN GENERAL, so you have a 33% head start on anything you try to mine in general, so its never guaranteed. An ORE miner then would have 33% in mining in general, and 66% mining any type of ORE in general, then the really good 100% mining in whatever SPECIFIC ore.
OK, thats prolly confusing so lemme simplify with one straight example:
A mitrill miner. with 100% mining, 100% ore mining, 100% mitrill mining.
33% chance at ANYTHING (100% mining)
66% chance at any ORE (100% ore mining)
100% at mitrill (100% mitrill mining)
The obvious problem is that right now anyone with 100% mining can haul up anything as if he had 100% in everything. So, to repiar the damage, make it so you can only mine what you adept in, and anything else you attempt should be sheer random success.
1: People with 100% in something rare have put in the time and now anyone can get alot of what they worked hard to achieve.
2: Said people are now upset that they are getting screwed. (I feel for ya.)
3: Mining is too easy now.
4: There is a rift between lazy people and hard working people, hence the dispute over "Make it simple" and "Make it the way it used to be"
Now what i feel could solve SOME of these problems is this:
I personally don't understand why a 100%stone miner can get anything he wants, ie: gems, rare ores. I think that a person's adept should determin what he can yank out of the mud. If a person has 100% granite mining, then he should only succed at granite mining. He Does have 100% mining in general, but that should only count for a little. There are 3 breakdowns: Mining, then your type of mining (stone, gemstone, ore), then your specialty. So, a stone minier should not be able to strip mine gems and ores. A gem miner shouldn't be able to succesfully stripmin ores and stone, ect. But, because of that breakdown, lets say you have 100%mining , then you have 33% mining IN GENERAL, so you have a 33% head start on anything you try to mine in general, so its never guaranteed. An ORE miner then would have 33% in mining in general, and 66% mining any type of ORE in general, then the really good 100% mining in whatever SPECIFIC ore.
OK, thats prolly confusing so lemme simplify with one straight example:
A mitrill miner. with 100% mining, 100% ore mining, 100% mitrill mining.
33% chance at ANYTHING (100% mining)
66% chance at any ORE (100% ore mining)
100% at mitrill (100% mitrill mining)
The obvious problem is that right now anyone with 100% mining can haul up anything as if he had 100% in everything. So, to repiar the damage, make it so you can only mine what you adept in, and anything else you attempt should be sheer random success.
weems (#39)
I was saying that LITTLE you got was a good indicator of your ignorance on the subject, and that you must be doing something seriously wrong...grykon wrote:kiasyn wrote:and what depth are you mining at?
More or less mining straight down to the last level of lime, and mining around, occasionally into the granite to see what is down there, or up a level in lime to see if there is anything there I might want.
Weems - of course I pasted the portals...what should I have done to please you? just said oh...maybe 3 mitrill, 20 copper, 15 iron, half a adamantite and a bunch of other ridiculous numbers? Kiasyn asked how many other resources I got during the 15 hours of mining, I have no reason to hide, distort or exagerate that information.
It is not my fault if you are too lazy to go into the other thread and read my and other peoples digging reports. Here, I'll even link you:
/t/515/
There you have it. Numbers galore, go check it out.
I do not distort or lie about things, end of story. If you want to accuse me of that, then go ahead, but it's all right in that thread staring at your face. If you refuse to look at the evidence that proves you wrong, what else am I to do?
weems (#40)
Thank you very much.Gilgolad wrote:It all boils down to a few simple points:
1: People with 100% in something rare have put in the time and now anyone can get alot of what they worked hard to achieve.
2: Said people are now upset that they are getting screwed. (I feel for ya.)
3: Mining is too easy now.
4: There is a rift between lazy people and hard working people, hence the dispute over "Make it simple" and "Make it the way it used to be"
Now what i feel could solve SOME of these problems is this:
I personally don't understand why a 100%stone miner can get anything he wants, ie: gems, rare ores. I think that a person's adept should determin what he can yank out of the mud. If a person has 100% granite mining, then he should only succed at granite mining. He Does have 100% mining in general, but that should only count for a little. There are 3 breakdowns: Mining, then your type of mining (stone, gemstone, ore), then your specialty. So, a stone minier should not be able to strip mine gems and ores. A gem miner shouldn't be able to succesfully stripmin ores and stone, ect. But, because of that breakdown, lets say you have 100%mining , then you have 33% mining IN GENERAL, so you have a 33% head start on anything you try to mine in general, so its never guaranteed. An ORE miner then would have 33% in mining in general, and 66% mining any type of ORE in general, then the really good 100% mining in whatever SPECIFIC ore.
OK, thats prolly confusing so lemme simplify with one straight example:
A mitrill miner. with 100% mining, 100% ore mining, 100% mitrill mining.
33% chance at ANYTHING (100% mining)
66% chance at any ORE (100% ore mining)
100% at mitrill (100% mitrill mining)
The obvious problem is that right now anyone with 100% mining can haul up anything as if he had 100% in everything. So, to repiar the damage, make it so you can only mine what you adept in, and anything else you attempt should be sheer random success.
grykon (#41)
weems wrote:I was saying that LITTLE you got was a good indicator of your ignorance on the subject, and that you must be doing something seriously wrong...
It is not my fault if you are too lazy to go into the other thread and read my and other peoples digging reports. Here, I'll even link you:
/t/515/
There you have it. Numbers galore, go check it out.
I do not distort or lie about things, end of story. If you want to accuse me of that, then go ahead, but it's all right in that thread staring at your face. If you refuse to look at the evidence that proves you wrong, what else am I to do?
*Bwahahahahah* You are so funny...Of course I have read the other threads, that isn't the issue, I didn't care what anyone else was getting, you and I were discussing things here...I didn't want to know what they got, I wanted to know what you got. They might have been exaggerating too! But you see...you admited you did...for whatever reason, it means anything you say from this point on means diddly, because I can't trust you to tell the truth.
In your own words...
Not to mention those posts are for the most part before april this year and the code could have been adjusted several times already.weems wrote:My data for mining adamantite was exaggerated to illustrate the point,
So call me lazy, call me ignorant...*laugh* I just don't care. Your opinion doesn't matter because you can't be trusted. Have a good one!
weems (#42)
Just wow. Talk about a run-away attitude. You can say that to anything at all. Just accuse everybody of lying, that way nobody can ever make any points against it. Its like accusing people of cheating automatically whenever you fear you could be losing at a game. You see it all the time in first person shooters, and whiny kids playing board games.grykon wrote:weems wrote:I was saying that LITTLE you got was a good indicator of your ignorance on the subject, and that you must be doing something seriously wrong...
It is not my fault if you are too lazy to go into the other thread and read my and other peoples digging reports. Here, I'll even link you:
/t/515/
There you have it. Numbers galore, go check it out.
I do not distort or lie about things, end of story. If you want to accuse me of that, then go ahead, but it's all right in that thread staring at your face. If you refuse to look at the evidence that proves you wrong, what else am I to do?
*Bwahahahahah* You are so funny...Of course I have read the other threads, that isn't the issue, I didn't care what anyone else was getting, you and I were discussing things here...I didn't want to know what they got, I wanted to know what you got. They might have been exaggerating too! But you see...you admited you did...for whatever reason, it means anything you say from this point on means diddly, because I can't trust you to tell the truth.
In your own words...
Not to mention those posts are for the most part before april this year and the code could have been adjusted several times already.weems wrote:My data for mining adamantite was exaggerated to illustrate the point,
So call me lazy, call me ignorant...*laugh* I just don't care. Your opinion doesn't matter because you can't be trusted. Have a good one!
Mostly the people who do it suck at the game, and use it as an excuse for their own failures.
Am I hinting at something? Perhaps, but heres another hint: if I was really intending an outright lie, I would never have revealed that fact. Also, for the third time (the first time was actually in the rest of the paragraph you cut out the sentence from), It is actually exaggertaed /leniently/, meaning its far worse than I described, not better. Believe what you wish, I think its pretty clear who is correct.
Mining is too easy right now.
grykon (#43)
I didn't run away, I'm just not discussing it with you anymore. You can't be trusted period. Believe what you want. Have a good one!
weems (#44)
That would qualify as running away. Anyway, I have some tips for you, judging by the little tidbits you left about your mining percents, and the extreme slowness at which you are gathering resources.grykon wrote:I didn't run away, I'm just not discussing it with you anymore. You can't be trusted period. Believe what you want. Have a good one!
First off, mine only on the bottom two layers. Screw the rest, everything you need is on the bottom two. Unless you are mining towards something you see on the map, always mine at an angle (IE ne, nw, se, sw). Mine sniff in every new room you enter, and mine up or down depending on whether you are on the bottom or one above bottom, every 8 or 9 new rooms to check to see if anything interesting is up, or down there.
Second, adept a Mitrill miner. Mitrill is very abundant and common to find, and is extremely useful. It is decent to use for reforges, it allows gem crafting up to Obsidian, and is available at high quantities. Because you find such high quantities of it, being adept in Mitrill helps you more than other things. Also, a 100% Mitrill miner will get good pulls from both Adamantite and Meteorite as well, making it an all around win-win miner. People try to use gold and silver instead of mitrill for adepting crafts and such, but I find that both of those are actually more time consuming than Mitrill to get, so I just juse Mitrill, personally. If I was forced to start over mining right now, the first thing I would do would be to work on adepting a Mitrill miner. You can never have too much of it, and its dead useful.
Third, a gem miner. Focus on whatever you find most abundantly on the bottom layer, in my experience this was topaz, sapphire, and obsidian. Once you hit 90%ish you should be able to pull up any gem in the whole mines no problem.
Something like a bronze miner can also be useful, but usually I consider this an entirely seperate activity from deep mining for ores and gems.
Work on those things I said, and maybe you will have some semblence of an idea of what we are talking about.
Gilgolad (#45)
I would like to reitterate. The best thing to do is to come up with a solution that most people can agree upon. (Meaning no one will like it but it will be good enough, hence the saying "A good compromise leaves everyone angry.")Gilgolad wrote:The obvious problem is that right now anyone with 100% mining can haul up anything as if he had 100% in everything. So, to repiar the damage, make it so you can only mine what you adept in, and anything else you attempt should be sheer random success.
So lets stop the bickering, and see what we can come up with that might fix the problem.
Personally? I say we keep the way that you can mine anywhere in the world, and see 2 or 3 spaces around you, i think thats cool. But we should definantly change that fact that i stressed above in the quote. If we changed that, it would leave the mines easy to learn, yet would return the reward to those who work hard.
Roje (#46)
A suggestion that someone sent to me on MSN:
"my suggestion was to disable normal success on mining the top two thirds of resources and disable special success on the top third; so you have to have gem/ore mining to mine mid-grade ores/gems and you have to adept that specific resources to mine top-grade resources like meteor"
"my suggestion was to disable normal success on mining the top two thirds of resources and disable special success on the top third; so you have to have gem/ore mining to mine mid-grade ores/gems and you have to adept that specific resources to mine top-grade resources like meteor"
weems (#47)
That would be fine.Roje wrote:A suggestion that someone sent to me on MSN:
"my suggestion was to disable normal success on mining the top two thirds of resources and disable special success on the top third; so you have to have gem/ore mining to mine mid-grade ores/gems and you have to adept that specific resources to mine top-grade resources like meteor"
Zidane (#48)
i disagree with this suggestion we need all the resources we need to craft something pass e200. Which is hard for most people playingRoje wrote:A suggestion that someone sent to me on MSN:
"my suggestion was to disable normal success on mining the top two thirds of resources and disable special success on the top third; so you have to have gem/ore mining to mine mid-grade ores/gems and you have to adept that specific resources to mine top-grade resources like meteor"
weems (#49)
You are an idiot.Zidane wrote:i disagree with this suggestion we need all the resources we need to craft something pass e200. Which is hard for most people playingRoje wrote:A suggestion that someone sent to me on MSN:
"my suggestion was to disable normal success on mining the top two thirds of resources and disable special success on the top third; so you have to have gem/ore mining to mine mid-grade ores/gems and you have to adept that specific resources to mine top-grade resources like meteor"
