this is copied and pasted out of a text file that ive been keeping notes in about the new mining system. please feel free to flame me/tell me it works fine/tell me im wrong/whatever.
maybe im old fashioned, but cele, im getting rather irritated in saying this and you not seeing it:
>YOU CAN NOT USE BIG NUMBERS IN STUFF LIKE THIS.<
explination will come later.
however, lets start from the beginning: learning mining skills.
paper: havent noted any changes on it from your or isabelle
practice: it is so ..how can i say this without swearing? STUPID.
it took me two days of good hours mining to raise my skill up to where i actually pull stuff out of the ground. One thing i think i see with the code is you have to have a skill in a lesser gem (say you want to raise skill in diamond. you appear to need skill in mining a lesser gem to be even able to dig the stuff up successfully).
how do you expect us to raise skills in minerals we dont have if the only way we can get skill ups is by actually pulling minerals down? i have only found a few instances (mostly in rocks) in where you'd get skill points for failure.
another thing i found is i have 0% in mitrill mining, and i hit a full wall (M). i got 77 mitrill ore off of that.
and earlier today i found a series of meteorite and got like 25 ore off of it, with absolutely no skill in meteorite.
why is it that we are able to mine up stuff that we dont have skill in if we have even a % in mining?
i unlearned copper on meh to see what skill raising would be like cele, and i am truely disappointed. it starts off really, really slow. have you tried it yet? i found it to be more profitable to mine straight down to granite because then id at least have a chance of digging out adamantite and meteorite (in which i have no skill in)
so here i am, after two days of free mining, and heres what i pulled out of the mines sofar:
When you look inside, you see:
An extradimensional portal contains:
(small) Copper ore (920)
(small) Iron ore (880)
(small) Uncut carnelian (89)
(small) Uncut citrine (35)
(small) Silver ore (630)
(small) Adamantite ore (35)
(small) Mitrill ore (164)
(small) Gold ore (17)
(small) Meteorite ore (25)
if it wasnt for this new mining system, i would have never ever seen meteorite and adamantite. and personally, i think that it should be changed back.. what are you guys going to do about the people who mined this stuff up for months? i can run down to granite with no skill and freely dig it up while eating cereal. i know people who have maybe 10x as much ore as i do spending FIVE MONTHS down in the mines. and i go in and dig out 25 meteorite in 15 minutes.
just for the records, and since i had a friend proofread this:
1) i used meh the entire time.
2) i got the adamantite, and most of the silver with 100% copper skill
3) i got the rest of it with anywhere from 0% mining skill to now:
EDIT 1: I love what you have done with the mines. suggestion to fix is to fix the skill problem and lower the number of stuff dug up per round. looks good on paper to me
Its been about a day since the patch has come out...I have mined up over 100 uncut jades, 20 uncut diamonds, countless garnets/zicons/sapphires/obsidians, about 30 meteorite ore, and maybe 70 adamantite ore.
This is completly unreal.
Kiasyn claims to have mined her 50ish meteorite ore with a 100% STONE miner.
Meh claims to have mined his 25 ore with a miner that was 10% copper mining.
Other people are mining meteorite with similiar results, all with little to no percent in even ore mining.
My (somewhat worthless) opinion about the new mining system:
1. I have to say, I LOVE the way the map is done, i think it's been beautifully done. I like how the symbols change according to the size of the mine (e.g. @ for stone, etc)...its really cool
2. Call me a newbie (because i am a newbie ), but could someone please explain about the percentage skill when you mine up a resource? I only have skill in mining up bronze, i have 0% in mining mitrill, yet i managed to mine up about 300 mitrill ore in about 2/3 hours yesterday. I don't think I should be able to mine mitrill with 0% in it, I don't think it's all that fair on those who have spent ages adepting mitrill (although it sure is nice )
Is your % meant to rise when you destroy a resource? Just that mine doesn't seem to, and I'm mining ores that I have absolutely no skill in...
3. Gems. I had 0.08% Citrine, 0.04% Garnet and 0.02% Carnelian (before the new patch). I can mine a fair bit of citrine, some carnelian, but NO garnet...and again, none of my % have risen in any of them. Is mining gems determined by your previous gem skill (before the patch)? As in, to successfully mine gems, you need to have started off with some gem skill in the first place?
I need to make clear: I like the new mining patch, it's cool being able to mine anywhere on the world map, and I'm not trying to rubbish the patch or anything, I'm just a bit confuzzled :S
Anyway, could someone please explain about the % when you mine (and how to raise your %)? I'm a bit messed up, just a leeetle slow in the head
If the post was serious, you should have rethought calling the mine update a circlejerk in your title.
if you want to get celeborns attention by flaming him -- that rarely works
aside from that, i would agree with those who think the amount of resources be lowered.
As for skill percentages, while i don't agree that they should be increased, its possible that they arent working perfectly as intended, and may need a tweak.
If the post was serious, you should have rethought calling the mine update a circlejerk in your title.
if you want to get celeborns attention by flaming him -- that rarely works
aside from that, i would agree with those who think the amount of resources be lowered.
As for skill percentages, while i don't agree that they should be increased, its possible that they arent working perfectly as intended, and may need a tweak.
wasnt trying to flame anyone. that was to get YOUR attention , and it worked
so youre trying to make it so i have to run over 500 walls worth of anything to get a skill over 10% of something? what about people who are new? they have absolutely no chance of gaining skill while the people who have been mining before this patch basically can go and pull anything out of the ground on demand
* I Log off only to log on another character and mine claim has disappeared. Perhaps increase the 'mine claim' time to five minutes?
* I am left reinforcing the same rooms again and again and again. I think this happens because of the time of 'mine claim'
* Is it possible to have two mine claims at the same time? Ran into another character (thought that was to be nearly impossible), and he said he had 'mine claim' as well. Isabelle witnessed this and asked me to post.
* Miners who aren't adept at certain resources are mining large quantities of those resources. I can use one alt and get more resources than I ever did with the old mines with an adepted miner. This now makes 'adepting' useless in my opinion. Why continue building my admanatite miner skills when I can go mine up 34 adamantite ingots on a stone miner from one dig? O.o I have dug up nearly 100 adamantite ore thus far, in a two hour span on a non-adept miner. Not to mention the abundant amounts of gems that I am mining up that I am not even ADEPT in!!!! O.O This leads me to a very serious concern....
* ECONOMY OF ALORA: O.O Where do in the WORLD do I start? The amount of resources that are being mined up by non-adept miners - you are looking at the destruction of Aloran as I speak. I am digging up resources that took miners MONTHS (including myself) to mine up and now they are readily available as if I were to go to a store deciding which candy bar I want off the shelf for only 50 cents. O.o There will also be less incentive to go to epics now. Yes, there will be the usual people who go to simply to level, but many eagerly anticipated finding gems with the hopes in mind of selling them for cash or stack them to craft eq. Who cares about the chests now? They are now a waste of time unless you are going into the epics for gold chests (ex. Kobolds). Then you say, well what about the locked doors? Well frankly, the whole point of going into that portion of epics is to GET the chests. I see fewer people choosing rogues now. Having talked to many...uncut diamonds are being dug up at rates that will leave them being worth no more than 5k - if that.
* The mine map is waaaayyy too small. I understand that dwarves and gerps will view the larger map...but the maps are too small for non-dwarves/gerps. It's easy to get lost down there and retrace your steps. Which leads me to the next problem....
* There are open paths EVERYWHERE. The old mines allowed for you to mine your own pattern and alts could be easily switched and the location of where you were just mining easy to find. I have 6 mining alts....trying to keep them all in the same area is nuts. Even laying down mushrooms so to retrace the steps...well, if you mine for hours, there are mushrooms everywhere and it's crazy. O.O
* Why place mobs in the mines? Don't get me wrong, they SHOULD be there, but correct me if I am wrong...are the mobs based on the level of the alt who mine claims? I mine claimed with a higher level alt and my lower alt got its rear kicked majorly (died). But then I logged out, mine claimed with the lower alt and she had no problems killing the mob. So if this is the case, of the level of the mobs based on the alt who 'mine claims,' then I will just mine claim with my lowest alt and who cares about the mobs? No challenge in my opinion
* Color Coding: I think this is awesome. I know what to hit, and what not to. But the symbols to express the quantity of the resources makes the mines appear more complicated than need be. There are so many symbols, it's like...where do I start?
* Crafting: Crafting jewellery will no longer be considered as a special craft, again messing with the economy. Jewellery prices will be forced to fall for those who spent months on adepting the craft. The rise of new jewellery crafters will be phenomenal. I am very irrated by this fact, I have to be admit. Not to mention, you can't differentiate the prices between the gems any longer because you can get them all a dime for a dozen. *cries bitterly*
Listen, I understand that the intention of the new mines - to make mining easier and resources more available. But omg...you are handing everyone on this game resources in a bowl made of blue diamonds!! I KNOW that people will always complain when there is change. But this isn't a change...this is a complete renovation of a system that wasn't entirely bad, it just needed improving. I am sorry to say, but I am disappointed completely. That's one thing I most enjoyed about this game - mining, because I felt I was working hard for something and getting something in return. The hard work paid off, but now...I am left thinking...if i am having everything handed to me easily, I will get bored with the game and mining was the one thing I had left to keep myself from FEELING bored. Don't know, I just know that a lot of people aren't happy. *cries*
addressing meh and shira, thank you shira for posting that information, but both of you are under some strange idea that once a patch is created, then that is the end all of discussion - its a new patch, and as such, just like every single other thing in the game, will require adjustment.
meh, you might be missing something here, the players who are new-- are happy!
they can now mine up lots of cool things, and sure, im not arguing with anyone, there needs to be adjustment, but there are no newbies complaining, they are getting lots of cool gems and ore, and even though the 'numbers' may not be raising like they should, does that even matter right now?
and no meh, i read everything, so flames do not get my attention more than anything else
* I am left reinforcing the same rooms again and again and again. I think this happens because of the time of 'mine claim'
I believe Cele did this intentionally and that it has nothing to do with mine claim.
Shira wrote:
* Is it possible to have two mine claims at the same time? Ran into another character (thought that was to be nearly impossible), and he said he had 'mine claim' as well. Isabelle witnessed this and asked me to post.
Mine claim only takes an area on the same floor as you, you cannot claim multiple floors.
Shira wrote:
* The mine map is waaaayyy too small. I understand that dwarves and gerps will view the larger map...but the maps are too small for non-dwarves/gerps. It's easy to get lost down there and retrace your steps. Which leads me to the next problem....
If the map was increased then there would be no point for dwarf and gerp 'mine smell'. If you were to increase the map i would say that every thing after x squares becomes a stone/passage. example...
CODE · MUD Output
+@%,@@... Alora - (Miles Underground) Mines
++,+@.@@s It is burning hot here. A sign states 'resources are the sole
@++@@@@,@ property of Kianen'.
@++@@@a@,
+++@;+++@
For a dwarf.
CODE · MUD Output
@@@@@@@@@ Alora - (Miles Underground) Mines
@@,+@.@@@ It is burning hot here. A sign states 'resources are the sole
@@+@@@@@@ property of Kianen'.
@@+@@@a@@
@@@@@@@@@
for a non-dwarf.
Shira wrote:
* There are open paths EVERYWHERE. The old mines allowed for you to mine your own pattern and alts could be easily switched and the location of where you were just mining easy to find. I have 6 mining alts....trying to keep them all in the same area is nuts. Even laying down mushrooms so to retrace the steps...well, if you mine for hours, there are mushrooms everywhere and it's crazy. O.O
If you are trying to avoid the paths, go slightly deeper... the resources stay mainly the same and there are less paths. Of course this is up to you .
Shira wrote:
* Color Coding: I think this is awesome. I know what to hit, and what not to. But the symbols to express the quantity of the resources makes the mines appear more complicated than need be. There are so many symbols, it's like...where do I start?
a comma usually represents 'minute traces' of a gem.
a semi-colon usually represents 'mediocre traces' of a gem
a percentage symbol usually represents 'obvious traces' of a gem.
A capital A means obvious chunks of adamantite, a small a means mediocre
A capital M can mean obvious chunks of either mitrill or meteorite, a small m means mediocre.
This is just general. There are many others represented by other things... ie Topaz represented by an O.
Do not rely on the map entirely, resources can 'hide' behind other ones.
shira, thank you shira for posting that information, but both of you are under some strange idea that once a patch is created, then that is the end all of discussion - its a new patch, and as such, just like every single other thing in the game, will require adjustment.
Yea, I know you guys are going to make adjustments - the main reason of my post. Geeez...I hope the mines won't stay this way O.O I know not all of my concerns may be changed, but I just wanted you to be aware of them and consider them.
And kiasyn, thank you for the information. Most of the info, I knew...I just wanted to express that I didn't like it =)
For one, it seems that either the hit roll (the roll to see if you pull any resources) has gotten a huge overall bonus, OR the difficulty check of each resource has been significantly lowered.
Furthermore, previously the biggest advantage to being specialized (being able to pull more at once) has been killed off, because each room only holds a set amount of resources, meaning that somebody who is less skillfull than I might still pull all the resources, just might take them a few more hits. If it was always like this, it must have been in such a way that it was very easy to destroy the materials, keeping it a huge bonus to be able to pull many at once, in conjunction with there being a difficult hit roll.
I can only deliver a sufficiently tested piece of code with a big budget or months of spare time. Since I have neither, that just isn't possible.
Most concerns will be fixed in next patch, so enjoy the short boost of mining gains. If you wish to improve patch quality in the future, come test on codeport. (or if you are like some people, be a bit more descriptive than THIS SUCKS! Wheeeeee.) (Races are next on the agenda, BWOEHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh, er, mehownzu, what is your favorite character race? I want to, erm, /reward/ you for your extremely diplomatic posting, that doesn't make me feel like you are attempting to insult me. BWOEHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA).
Intended Fixes:
- Unskilled miners not properly destroying resources, causing unintended resource gains.
- Reinforcement issues will be looked at.
- A fix for the 'breadcrumbs requirement' issue.
- The mine map is small due to memory and performance issues. The world map is too big for me to store into the memory available to me, so I need to swap it out on disk. A bigger map means more disk activity. I might tweak things later but for now one room is all you'll get.
cele, in no way was that post trying to insult you. sometimes when i get really wound up i use a little too much emotion in what i say. i am sorry please dont kill me
like i said, i love what you have done with th emines..minerals are too abundant. and anyways, every time i tried to connect to code port (either IP) i got 10061 errors. maybe if you would have the server up when i try to connect id actually be able to
ill do everything i can to help test the next patch. i owe it to you for all this bitching i did.
oh, one thing i like a lot about the mines is the encounters. please dont change them. it forces people to actually level before they go and wander into the mines.
I thought the whole point of the encounters was to prevent botting, not encourage levelling. And as Isabelle has stated, the encounters ARE messed up. Only one of the intended monsters is spawning in the mines, the rest are world map mobs.
my motives are along the lines of future questing, which may involve storylines involving encounters, and involving gathering of certain items from the encounters to finish a particular quest.
They're fun, thats the real reason why they are there
And, if in the process, it helps people to level up their level 1 toon, so be it
One of the main issues I have seen vetern miners whining about (and yes they ARE whining) is that someone addept in a Specialism (aka Ore Mining) can pull any single kind of ore, just in smaller ammounts then someone with the Mastery (aka Mitrill Mining).Why is this a bad thing?
Meh thinks that pulling 77 mitrill ore from a "M" was a huge ammount as he had no percentage in Mitrill mining. However, it seems he had 100% in bronze at that time. I had 100% in Ore Mining and about 72% of it in Mitrill Mining. On the same kind of wall, I pulled about 350 pieces of Mitrill Ore. Finding one wall of obvious chunks of mitrill made my day. On walls with trace ammounts I pulled between 1 and 20 pieces of ore per wall.
I then stumbled on a single wall with obvious chunks of Meteorite. To hopefully get a boost in my Meteorite percentage I unlearned Iron Mining. This left me at about 85% in Mining, 85% Ore Mining, and 1% in Meteorite Mining. When I attacked those Obvious chunks I pulled 19 pieces of ore, and destroyed quite a bit too. How much would I have pulled if I was addept of Ore mining? How much would I have pulled if I was Addept of Meteorite Mining? I think I would have pulled a HECK of a lot more.
On the other side of the spectrum I have a gem miner I am trying to addept. The character has about 20% in Mining, 20% in Gem Mining, but its in mixed gems. I found that even after wall after wall of destroyed gems, the only way to raise percentage was to mine Carnelian and Citrine. Even Garnet completely refused to raise (the char had 6% in Garnet from pre-patch). For Citrine and Carnelian I think I got more gems then I did raises in skill percentage.
In short, I don't see why everyone is so cranky. Newbies don't have addept miners. Under the current system, some things will be VERY hard to addept. But they can pop relatively 'small' ammounts of GOOD materials! Who cares? It makes new people WANT to mine doesn't it? I personally would rather see a surge in mining, then see it be back the way it was. When I say 'the way it was' I mean Cranky old veterns were the only ones mining anything worthwhile.
People are over estimating a possible surge in jewelry. Yes Alora will have more jewelry crafters. Why is that such a bad thing? How many people do you know that only wear the most commonly made pieces of jewelry? Thats because of the rarity and difficulty of making it under the old system. Under this new patch Citrine and Carnelian are more abundent then ever. The gold and silver needed for making jewelry from those gems is common too.
That allows people to addept jewelry much more easily. However, Blue Diamonds are still rare as heck, and require Meteorite (also still very rare) to make jewelry from. The requirments for both better gems and better metals to make good jewelry will limit the ammount of powerful jewelry being sold. Remember that you can't reforge Jewelry.
What about weapons? With the marked increase of bronze in the world, people will be addepting weapons and armors at ASTOUNDING rates compared to jewelry. Plus you don't need to use a rare material to make the finished item. You can just reforge it with some rare ingots later. I heard one person say they already had near 200,000 ingots of bronze laying around. No body, including myself, has been whining much about that now have they? Why then whine about gems and jewelry?
How about we make Jewelry a new primary Craft seperating it from Forging? I feel that a "gem processing" skill should control the quality of the gem's cut, not the quanity of gems made from a single uncut gem. More != Better. I would have it be more like this:
What I see that needs to be done, is a bit of something special for Tailoring, Leatherworking, Woodworking. and Bonecarving. Bonecarving only has one material it can use. Woods don't have the benefits they once did, so everyone just uses Hawthorne and then Ironwoods it. Leatherworking is about on par with tailoring, but the materials are harder to get. In Tailoring Cloth and Silk are more alike then they are different, and silk is much harder to get then cloth.
Those crafts need some boosts now. Thats the 'whining' that I will do.
I really don't think you know half as much as you think you do, Vogar.
Did you not read what I said? No, not ore...people can mine up meteorite with a /STONE MINER/. I don't care if it's even a little bit, the very fact that it's happening right now, probably right as a type this, is enough for me. Jades are being mined with /citrine and carnelian/ miners.
You seem to think this system is working a lot better than it actually is. Sure, if a 100% copper miner could mine a very very small amount of meteorite, very inefficiently, I wouldn't have that big a problem with it.
But when STONE miners can do it, and people with no more than 10% in ore, thats crossing the line.
Mining -> Ore -> Meteorite
Mining -> Stone -> Granite
What do those have in common? Hrm.... lets think long and hard. Is it maybe: MINING?
I don't really give a wart on a dead troll's arse if someone gets some gains from their primary skill percentage (aka Mining) thats like saying someone that forges Swords at 100% should NEVER be able to make a normal quality armor. Don't both things have to do with heating metal?
Oh, I forgot Weems. You are about the only person bothered to addept at Meteorite. You're right, lets not make it minable unless you have devoted months or years to addepting meteorite. Not even in the smallest percents or gain rates. After all, the primary skill "Mining" is just there for looks and means nothing important.
Perhaps you could tell us how much you pull with an Addept Meteorite Miner from a wall of Obvious Chunks of Meteorite? Or would you rather just keep that quiet?
Meteorite is a high level mining skill. People are not pulling 'normal' amounts of it. They are pulling tons of it. You only need 156 ingots for an entire reforge, and meteorite is the second best metal in the whole game. Damn right, it should be a hell of a lot harder to mine than 50 ore a day with a stone miner.
Mining up 50 ore in a day with a stone miner is about the equivilent to making an e400 exceptional three socket metal sword with a 100% metal cuirass forger.
Well, maybe reforge is the problem then? How about we just remove that whole craft skill completely? My Mitrill miner can pull 250 ore of bronze in one try if I am lucky. Are you against that too?
And you would like to know how much I pulled? Okay, let's go.
Huge bag of mining picks contains:
a carnelian Templas
Meteorite ore (460)
Meteorite ingot
I started with approximetly 415 ore, before this new patch came. So since this new mining patch, I have mined approx 45 ore? Wow. Envy me and all the glory of an 83% Meteorite miner.
Well, maybe reforge is the problem then? How about we just remove that whole craft skill completely? My Mitrill miner can pull 250 ore of bronze in one try if I am lucky. Are you against that too?
So, instead of proposing fixing the problem itself (mining too much meteorite) you propose to kill reforge. Good idea...No.
That is NOT what I asked. I specifically asked how much you got from a wall of Obvious Chunks of Meteorite. Or have you not been able to find such a wall? I know I have only been able to find one myself. For all we know you might have only found a couple walls with trace ammounts, and thats it. I know you have been after gems quite a bit.
That is NOT what I asked. I specifically asked how much you got from a wall of Obvious Chunks of Meteorite. Or have you not been able to find such a wall? I know I have only been able to find one myself. For all we know you might have only found a couple walls with trace ammounts, and thats it. I know you have been after gems quite a bit.
That was with one place of obvious chunks and a few minute traces.
Even if I DID pull tons more than you, I would still be against it, it's the second best metal, and it only takes 156 ingots for a reforge.
It should /not/ pour out of the ground, not even for an 83% meteorite miner.
Kill reforge fixes quite a bit of the problem. It puts jewelry, armor, and weapons all on par with each other. It also allows some mob gear to be much more special then other pieces by simple controlling its material.
Reforge has been broken for a long time anyway. The percentage of skill in it means nothing at all. 100% sharpeners can reforge using the same ammount of ingots as a 100% reforger.
Reforge is a skill that makes no logical sense, and it imbalances the game. I am 100% for its removal.
Meteorite ingot has been discarded here. (168)
Meteorite ore has been discarded here. (168)
Kia Kia says:
thats what im up to
Kia Kia says:
i had 50 ingots from you
Kia Kia says:
when i started
Kia Kia says:
ive attained the ore by mining
Kia Kia says:
the ingots by buying
Kia Kia says:
very <censored> cheaply
weems says:
with what kind of miner did you mine the ore with?
Kia Kia says:
stone and ore
weems says:
how much of each?
Kia Kia says:
stone and mitrill
Kia Kia says:
Kia Kia says:
im not sure
Kia Kia says:
i mined about 50 to 70 ore with stone
Kia Kia says:
then the rest with ore
There you have it. What more do you need? Jesus. And the reforge skill works fine. Only problem is that it doesn't give benefits if you adept, but thats not really a big deal. It works.
If the mines were fixed, and hopefully Celeborn will stand by what he said on the first page, then Reforge wont even NEED to be removed.
well, if you wanted balance, the proposal (if you can call it that - it looked more like sarcasm) of removing reforge, and keeping everything the way it is, would indeed help to rebalance the scales.
because really, who would care? you would spend the same amount of time, the only difference is that you wouldnt be able to overcharge an items enchantment with spells and enchants, then reforge it into a lesser enchantment item.
and i think ocardus was at one time asking for the removal of reforge himself, or at least mentioning that it was a source of abuse.
myself, i see the removal of reforge as a much better way to rebalance things, and keeping more resources coming in, would balance out the loss of reforge.
Player participation remains high, time involved in craft remains the same.
It's not balanced. You can still mine blue diamond and meteorite and make jewellery out of it. It would be balancing metal armor and weapons... MAYBE, but then jewellery would have an overflow.
People are over estimating a possible surge in jewelry. Yes Alora will have more jewelry crafters. Why is that such a bad thing? How many people do you know that only wear the most commonly made pieces of jewelry? Thats because of the rarity and difficulty of making it under the old system. Under this new patch Citrine and Carnelian are more abundent then ever. The gold and silver needed for making jewelry from those gems is common too.
And with reforge gone this will be pointless. People will be walking around wearing bronze equipment.
Jewellery will be more common. Good eq will be less?!?
what about the aforementioned problem of using reforge to abuse enchanting?
i'm not seeing the hurt involved in doing it, if its just as easy to mine up mitrill as bronze was.
then you would still use bronze to increase your skill
and then use mitrill when someone asks for you to make them stuff.
don't get me wrong, i couldnt care less either way, but i'm looking at this, and i see both ways as working fairly, and one of those ways fixes an abuse bug.
unless you can think of a different method for fixing the problem.
You know, something i might like to see, and i've mentioned this before to a degree, patterns/blueprints, if you have patterns which require certain resources, and the higher your skill, the more higher quality resources you need to continue to increase your skill.
It's harder than what you have, but it makes /you/ the old miner, a better miner
(because new guys would 'require' mitrill and meteorite to attempt to match your skill)
But, this wouldnt happen, because it would be like taking a step back codewise, so, just my thoughts.
I was not being sarcastic. I feel removing reforge adds to the game, and doesn't take away from much of it. If reforge is not removed, it atleast needs to be changed drastically. I do NOT feel it should completely change an items base material. Especially with a cost so low as 156 ingots.
Let say you spend 500,000 ingots of bronze or more to make a e500 exceptional item? You then take 156 ingots of a better material and reforge it. That is about 499,850 ingots of meteorite you did not need to use. Would you say its a bit too powerful of a skill? And a bit too easy of a skill to acquire?
By removing reforge, the material gain rate can remain more or less what it is now. Epic level exceptionals could also become tweaked to more realisticly obtainable levels, so we wouldn't all be in bronze while epicing. Lowbies would be happily mining and make cool lowbie gear, but wouldn't be making super powerful epic gear just as easily.
Yes, Isabelle. I propose either a drastic change in how reforge works, or its complete removal. I don't see the resources as the problem. Reforge is the problem.
And also if you remove reforge, vogar you will become pretty useless. Your 2k emeralite or whatever will be not worth much except for picks. unless you dupe it.
And the problem of abusing the enchant space could be solved just be making it so an item cannot be reforged more than once, or that it resets its enchant space. Either way it works...
Fixing the mining problem? Easy, Celeborn tones down the gains. A lot.
he doesnt become useless, his emeralite would continue to help him create high level equipment alot easier than someone using bronze or mitrill.
(the better the resource, the higher the chance of getting masterpiece)
But yes, i would agree with A) resetting the enchantment space after a reforge
and B) having reforge cost /way/ more than it currently does (its kind of a joke right now anyways)
As weems has suggested before. The higher an epic level the more resources required to reforge it.
Even that screws over new people too much for my liking.
So for my hypothetical four reforged e400 items, I currently need..624 ingots.
The formula I proposed was 2e + 156, where E was the epic level of the equipment.
So for somebody new, would take them 3824 ingots to reforge what I did for 624. And assuming the mining gains gets fixed, that wouldn't be very fair, now would it?
I have been mining on this new patch for two days now - yesterday 5, today for 6 hours and these are the resources I have gathered:
In this time frame - with a shale and gemstone(citrine/carnelian) miner, I have pulled up over 3k silver ore; over 500 gold ore, over 200 adamantite ore, over 4k copper ore, and over 400 different types of gems; numerous of which are obsidians, zircons and sapphires.
So what's wrong with this picture??
First off, as I stated, it was ALL done with two mining alts: Shale and citrine/carnelian.
Secondly..I am digging up more resources through a non- adepted miner than I was with my adepted miner under the old system!!!
So you are saying, that it is OKAY to mine up all those high quality gems on a citrine/carnelian miner? O.o You are saying, that it's OKAY to mine up that amt of ore on a STONE miner? I am not even USING my ore miner to mine up the ore. WHY? Because it's A WASTE OF TIME to switch alts. However, I DID switch to my ore miner just to see how much more I would get. And you know...I dug up 30 more copper ore...and 20 more silver ore per room. OOOOOOOOO.
Why have 6 alts going at the same time when you get MORE than enough resources using just 2? FRANKLY....I am looking at the amt of ore and gems I have gathered and thinking...Hell, in the next day I will have more than enough ore/gems to make another jewellery craft. And in another 2-3 days of mining...I will have enough to mine ANOTHER jewellery craft. WHHHEEEEE. NOT.
There have been reports from numerous who don't even mine PERIOD- those who have flocked to the mines in the last two days hearing rumors of the amt of resources being dug up. As Weems stated, we all are digging up TONS of resources.
There is NO point in adepting in any ONE particular mining skill because you get MORE than enough resources on any one particular miner. I now have enough admantite ore to reforge two items, and as I stated earlier - from a NON adepted ore miner. That makes me sick personally.
I honestly can't tell you how upset I am by the fact that sapphire miners are mining up diamonds. I paid a hell of a lot of money for the diamonds that I have gathered...NOT to mention the amt of time spent in epics HOPING that the one chest I lockpick HAS one. And now there are people mining them up the moment they come across them.
TALK WITH PEOPLE VOGAR. Even those who are greedy enough to take advantage of the system are even saying that the mines are way too easy. You however, seem to be the exception.
I am for the complete removal of reforge as we know it now. It should NOT change the items matrial. Change it into a salvage skill that allows you to pull gems out of jewelry (up to one gem and a couple ingots), and remelt metal items (up to the same number of ingots as are required to make the item). On a failed try at 'reforge' you would destroy all the materials.
This would help to compensate for needing the same raw materials as you wanted a finished item to be. You could reforge your normal items, and used any gained materials to try again at making exceptions.
Isabelles idea about material 'quality' affecting the success rate is a good one. That would also help to balance the ammount of materials needed to create an item. It also makes a lot more sense then how things currently are.
Kiasyn, are you accusing me of Duping emeralite? Anyone with any sense knows my emeralite supply has only gone down over time. All you have to do is Cast Locate Emeralite to see how much I have in the bank. Yes I realize I have the most to lose from reforge being removed. Why then are you whining instead of me?
I am for the complete removal of reforge as we know it now. It should NOT change the items matrial. Change it into a salvage skill that allows you to pull gems out of jewelry (up to one gem and a couple ingots), and remelt metal items (up to the same number of ingots as are required to make the item). On a failed try at 'reforge' you would destroy all the materials.
This would help to compensate for needing the same raw materials as you wanted a finished item to be. You could reforge your normal items, and used any gained materials to try again at making exceptions.
Isabelles idea about material 'quality' affecting the success rate is a good one. That would also help to balance the ammount of materials needed to create an item. It also makes a lot more sense then how things currently are.
Kiasyn, are you accusing me of Duping emeralite? Anyone with any sense knows my emeralite supply has only gone down over time. All you have to do is Cast Locate Emeralite to see how much I have in the bank. Yes I realize I have the most to lose from reforge being removed. Why then are you whining instead of me?
It amuses me that accusing people of 'whining' is the only defense you have against logic.
Screwing over newbies = Bad.
Making it so resources DONT pour out of the mines = Good.
Umm, I am still pretty new to this whole thing.. and actually do not have a miner tho was levelling up a dwarf so I could head into the mines as soon as she could wear a ring of blue steel..
I've been reading and listening to all that everyone is saying... and it makes me wonder about alot of different things...
Its nice that the mines have changed.. that people who may not have had the chance to have something nice may now have that chance if they learn how to make it...
I do understand that perhaps there is too much being mined.. that perhaps.. there could be less found.. but.. I believe in the end there will always be something even better.. something else that can be found.. and perhaps played with...
I like the idea of lowbies having a chance... even someone like me.. stuck in the middle not sure of what to do.. with ideas of crafting etc.. but not sure how to get started.. yes.. having the new mining patch in.. makes me want to do it more.. :(but alas I wil not as I hate to die..)
in the end.. its really only a game... and yes.. there will always be people better then others.. people who try to gain that extra advantage.. and people just barely getting by and those.. just drifting.. and waiting to get to the end.. We have to remember the fun... not forgetting this..
)
Shira, I am not saying that the gain rate between Primary, Specialism, and Mastery don't need tweaking. What I am saying is that all anyone is doing is judging the NEW system off the old one.
It is not the old system. It is the new system. It needs to be judged based on its own merit, not on the a system of merit where the old system is considered 'perfect'. Changes should be made according to whats needed, and not on whats needed to make it like the Old system.
First, ocardus, you are talking about an e400 "new" person, that person isnt new, even if they are created 1 month from now, and level up to e400, they are still not new
so, (using 'your' formula) would 3800 mitrill for a reforge be a bad price to pay for an e400 exceptional helm?
it sounds like this helm would be pretty kick ass, and 3800 mitrill would
be a high, but probably a worthwhile price to pay for such a thing. and using todays chances of finding mitrill - that might take what, a couple weeks for one person?
- using post fix figures, it will likely be longer, unless you put extra players into the picture, then it becomes a few days.
Next, shira --
aside from ok, yes, too much resources, why is the 'thought' of having 1 or two characters to cover what originally took you 8, bad?
its good, isnt it?
if it had always been that way, and we changed it suddenly to have you requiring the 8 characters to mine, would people complain that it was unfair?
why is greater player participation in the mud bad?
sure, old school players are now not as elite as before, now they are like even with new players as well, is that bad?
oooo...and you aren't just looking at removing reforge Vogar...you are looking at the complete renovation of the crafting system in order to compensate the amt that is being dug up...otherwise...people will be adept in tons of crafts by the end of the month.
aside from ok, yes, too much resources, why is the 'thought' of having 1 or two characters to cover what originally took you 8, bad?
its good, isnt it?
if it had always been that way, and we changed it suddenly to have you requiring the 8 characters to mine, would people complain that it was unfair?
why is greater player participation in the mud bad?
sure, old school players are now not as elite as before, now they are like even with new players as well, is that bad?
Well Isabelle...my feelings and concerns reflect yours as well when caretakers decided to remove 250 sips juices..the change with the sigils..etc. I was under the assumption that we want to challenge players, not spoon feed them.
I was talking meteorite, Isabelle. Not mitrill...Is 4k Meteorite ingots a lot? Yes.
And no new people at e400? I can name some pretty high epic level people who are very new. A moderatly intelligent newbie who tagged along with an oldie in epics for a few months could easily hit e400...
And even if they started in a month and reforge was removed, and they spent a year getting to e400, and all the sudden they realize...WELL CRAP...ALL THESE OLD PEOPLE HAVE INCREDIBLY NICE ITEMS
WHY CANT I?
OH WAIT, THEY KILLED REFORGE....SCREWING NEWER PEOPLE OVER
correct shira, but i'm not yet seeing how more resources necessarily equates into making it less challenging.
and making it more challenging is not the only reason why i take the actions i do, if there is something thats cool, and fun, and many people are involved in it and happy, theres a fine line that must be walked to keep it partially challenging, and still fun
Weems, the changes to reforge would hurt epic level people a lot more then they would hurt lowbies. Lowbies could easily make cool gear for themselves. Why? Because of the increased chance of success in lower level items.
Yes, it would be much harder for them to make their epic gear then when you made yours. Thats the story of DL. People that come after us will never understand how we did the things of the "Old Days" when everything was sooooo much more powerful.
They will look back and say, "Gosh, I wish I was back in the old days of reforge! Then these 100,000 ingots of adamantite would really be something!"
You do realize many of us are still around from the days when 10 ingots of Adamantite made a Magic Visor? TEN INGOTS! Get over yourself Weemster. Times change, the mud changes, and we change with it.
Yacka, yacka, life goes on bro! Yacka, yacka, life goes on!
weems, the message you replied to, did not mention reforge removal, as i had already agreed with you regarding some of your ideas for fixing reforge, i did mention an increased cost for reforge however, as per vogars idea
ignore the numbers for a moment, do you have any issue with it costing more for a reforge?
it costs what, nothing for a reforge right now? 150 ingots, takes a few people, an hour?
i think we believe the same thing, you are just pre-occupied with other thoughts at the moment
An e400 meteorite piece of crafted gear, will never be terrible unless enchanted horribly wrong...Or unless Celeborn revamps the entire crafting system...Do you see this happening? I certainly don't. He wants to work on PvB.
weems, the message you replied to, did not mention reforge removal, as i had already agreed with you regarding some of your ideas for fixing reforge, i did mention an increased cost for reforge however, as per vogars idea
ignore the numbers for a moment, do you have any issue with it costing more for a reforge?
it costs what, nothing for a reforge right now? 150 ingots, takes a few people, an hour?
i think we believe the same thing, you are just pre-occupied with other thoughts at the moment
I believe that I prefer reforge staying 156 ingots...Just those ingots take a *LOT* more effort to get. If meteorite wasnt pouring out of the ground, it would be balanced. If Celeborn down tweaks the numbers by a lot, it becomes fine again.
Down tweaking instead of removing/nerfing reforge also has the added benefit of keeping blue diamond jewelry hard to forge.
Shira, why is being able to addept crafts quickly (by having lots of resources around) a bad thing? Do epic levelers have problems finding mobs to kill? Why should crafters have problems finding resources? Can you not reach crowning range in under a month? Yes you can. Its actually easier now then it has ever been.
Why then should Addepting a craft skill take longer then it does to tri-av? It shouldn't, not and be fair. However, just because you're addept of a skill does not mean you don't still have to work to gain an exceptional item of such and such a level. Or for that matter to find a resource so you can mine it from the ground. But then, just because your tri-av doesn't mean you have a slay command to help you level either.
To me, the only thing that really needs tweaking is the pop rate from Primary, Specialism, and Mastery. I would say Mastery should be about 99%, Specialism should be about 33%, and Primary should be about 3% pop/gain rates. Based on the way we currently have crafting work, that would logically be fair.
However, I am willing to bet this post gets lost in the flood of other reactionary notes. I would not be surprised if this topic goes till about 10 pages.
correct shira, but i'm not yet seeing how more resources necessarily equates into making it less challenging.
and making it more challenging is not the only reason why i take the actions i do, if there is something thats cool, and fun, and many people are involved in it and happy, theres a fine line that must be walked to keep it partially challenging, and still fun
I can assure you, yes mining right now IS fun...heh...you've got people who have never mined before pulling up resources left and right and who may never decide to adept in anything once they have caught on that uh...NOT really needed.
The way the mines STAND now, IS THE problem: If the amt of resources that currently being dug up stands, and there is no change, then you will need to renovate the current crafting system to increase the amt of ingots/gems needed to adept an item. To me, that's sounds like more a waste of time than just adjusting the system that is CURRENTLY being worked on. Now people are talking about removing reforge...remove this...remove that...blah blah blah.
If you allow for the removal of sharpening to reforge an item...we will then use up one of our alts SIMPLY to reforge. You work your rear off to become adepted an craft - and still that's a problem because it's hell getting a masterpiece most of the time, but then you can't reforge it because now you have to learn ANOTHER skill?
One minute we are discussing encourging more fun, now we are talking about making it more difficult again. sigh.
What STILL doesn't make sense is that NON adept miners are MINING up high quality resources AT an alarming rate. THAT should STILL be the issue. =(
I believe that I prefer reforge staying 156 ingots...Just those ingots take a *LOT* more effort to get. If meteorite wasnt pouring out of the ground, it would be balanced. If Celeborn down tweaks the numbers by a lot, it becomes fine again.
So do you perfer killing a few mobs in a moderately challenging fight for moderate experience gain? Or do you perfer killing one mob, but having it almost kill you EVERY time you had to fight a monster?
If every mob was uber, newbies would just walk away from the game. If anything worthwhile is too hard to mine, newbies will walk away from mining. One has to balance interests between increasing the mud's popularity with new people, and keeping older people interested and challenged.
Don't worry Shira, people like Vogar post in its defense, then when they get proven wrong, they act like they had the right idea the whole time. Vogar's simple 5/33/100 thing would be perfectly acceptable to me....Only I would PREFER to see it as...1/20/80.
Amusing thing, I was asking simply for this the whole time, and Vogar IMMEDIATLY opposed it, as if it was some HORRIBLE idea.
This is implied by him saying this
"One of the main issues I have seen vetern miners whining about (and yes they ARE whining) is that someone addept in a Specialism (aka Ore Mining) can pull any single kind of ore, just in smaller ammounts then someone with the Mastery (aka Mitrill Mining)."
This was already posted after clear cut results were drawn up, so it's easy to assume he knew JUST HOW MUCH people were mining, and that its only like maybe...10 - 20% less?
Then later after argueing with people more, he switches attitudes, he says it might need some tweakig..
And now, hes full on saying it should be 5/33/100...
I believe.. things will even out.. that this will calm down.. people should just enjoy it.. enjoy the rush of good fortune.. enjoy the game.. you can all think I am naive.. or anything else... but the politics of it all are getting quite insane.. yes we all know that things need to be tweaked etc.. and I am sure Cele and Isa and anyone else that is working on it are... and I know they want our opinion... but.. this is getting out of hand...
ok, so - perfect system (most of us will sorta agree upon)
small numbers
------
Old player -
being specialized in mitrill, means you can 'get mitrill' even if its a small amount
not being specialized in it, really remote chance
reforge stays, gets fixed, but some cost on level needs to be there, doesnt need to be extreme, just needs to be there.
- So, ok, those ideas, old school players would say, alright, we can live with that.
------
------
New player, mines for an hour, gets 2 rocks
never mines again, opts to buy instead from the old school players
theres our problem
------
So, i think we need bigger numbers, that way the new miner thinks they are getting something cool, and we need these resources to be useable, they dont need to be mitrill by the tons, but letting them dig up bunches might keep their interest
Any intelligent player saw the values in mining eventually, Isabelle. This could be shown by the steady but slow influx of new miners in the old mines, I believe there were even threads about it becoming overcrowded.
I personally feel this is like the Gold rush of 1949 in the United States, when the whole world dropped what its doing and ran to prospect for gold. It will likely not last long. To many people are reactionary about it, as they have been with most every major patch or change.
Like I said I feel that 3% for Primary craft, 33% for Specialism, and 99% for Mastery is plenty fair. A 100% granite miner would only pop about 2.97% of what an 100% Diamond miner could pop. A 100% Citrine miner could then mine 32.67% of the gems a 100% Diamond miner could. Such a system would be plenty fair.
Good point Isabelle. How about 10% 50% 99%? Any miner worth their salt would addept one of the specialism in a very short while, even if it was Sandstone.
Weemster, you are the one turning coat. You have said since testport opened that you think a 100% stone miner should NOT MINE ANY ore or gems. Especially rarer gems and ores.
I specifically asked (sarcastically) in one discussion if you would have us remove Primaries and Specialisms, and just work off Masteries alone, and you said:
Weems on MSN wrote:
Yes, I would
Don't try and paint me in that light that you just did, or my posts will soon have a much more personal tone then they have been.
Isabelle, I am happy that miners are flocking in. And yea...when I first went in to mine as a new miner.... I was like nooo way. This is hard!! Then you had the older players (I now stand in the same position) who charge alarming rates for you to get equipment crafted/enchanted because they know you can't craft/enchant yourself.
Ya know what? I DEALT WITH IT and you know what it forced me to do? WORK for what they had. I said, "I want to be such a crafter!!" Wow, it IS terrible of me to say that I think people should work for what they want on this game. Economy was running smooth and it won't anymore.
Damn right I am upset =( I have just lost my business for something I worked my rear off for the last year to gain. WHICH leads me to what I am going to say next - I became a very active player...almost 2 years now since i have started on this game...and every day I got on...I knew that I still had to work hard for what I wanted.
Call me old-fashioned, but spoon feeding this guys is bad news. If it's handed to them, they will get bored with the game and leave. I mean hell, you can only level so much? You only have what...7-8 alts to create, all of which became adepted in crafting items in less than 2 months. What else is there left to do?
I don't. 1% is PLENTY, which is what I just said. Scroll up. "Only I would PREFER to see it as...1/20/80."....Means if there was 100 possible mitrill ore to be mined, and the stone miner went for it all, would MAYBE get ONE ore.
But thinking now, maybe 1/20/80 IS too high.
Again, I bring up that this system doesn't work because it doesn't take INDIVIDUAL difficulty into account.
Should a Copper miner have the same 33% or 50% ore of a mitrill vein and a meteorite vein?
The old system was plenty fun. I found it really damn fun to spend ages mining a wall, then pulling out a few gems and some ores. It took time, yes, but that's what made it MORE fun. -.-;;
I personally feel this is like the Gold rush of 1949 in the United States
i find it easier to be able to scrape a weighted metal out of a stream than it would be to dig a tunnel underground, find said mineral, and actually extract it without 1) messing the mineral up 2) caving in
IRL they have different techniques to mine different materials. really. someone whos really good at diamonds out of the ground might not be able to pull tin ore out, and vice versa. i think that if you are a good percentage in a material, you should pull it out more. i also think that if you have a bad percentage in a material you should pull it out less. way way less.
The reason i posted this thread was so cele would have a place to start in altering the mining code. isa, do you know why i named it what i did in the first place? does it make sense now?
more random thoughts:
1) reforge is fine
2) mining is fine -- the mineral amounts pulled out need adjusted
2.a) maybe you could make this into a rp thing? since we can dig anywhere now its like finding a crapton of ore that we couldnt get in the mines. it really just cant stay like this though. the economy would crap out and the only thing worth a crap would be emeralite, since i havent seen any in the mines yet.
how about giving each resource typy its own mastery specialization primary model say for instance, if your 100% in copper you have little to no chance to mine mitrill or above, and your chance to mine the ore types goes up as you get into the less rare ores, same would be if the same miner is mining gems
if you combine this with no skill gain on misses, but make more common resources have like a 20% chance to mine with no skill so it is possible to begin raising resources, you would have no chance of mining the rare resources until you have a sufficient skill in the lower resources, then your chance for the higher resources would be very small
as you start learning more rare resources, it makes it a little easier to mine the rare ones, eventually your skill in the rare ones will start going up. but each resource would have to have it's own percentage chart that it uses for every other resource
ok, after every resource has this, these percentages would have to be multiplied by the current percentages that the player has.
if this idea sounds doable, don't know how much memory it would take, but if it sounds doable I could go into more detail with charts and stuff, then people could comment on the percentages and tweak them or whatever before it is tested
One possibility if memory constraints are too high for this would be to create a chart that has every possible combination. Save this chart to the hard drive, and have it accessed the first time you mine. Then it would only have to access the chart to find new numbers whenever your skill increases.
system would only work if skill is only gained on successfull attempt
all 3 charts have player skill in copper
player is mining primary, copper
player | since primary to primary ore difficulty would be low
skill |100% chance to mine
-----------------------------------------------------------
0 |10 --have to have a percent chance to get started on the
lower rarity ores
10 |10
20 |20
30 |30
40 |40 this is the chance to actually mine the ore successfully
50 |50
100 |99
|
|
play is mining specialization iron
player |since primary to specialization and ore not so rare difficulty would be average
skill |50
-----------------------------------------------------------
10 |5
20 |10
30 |15
40 |20 this is the chance to actually mine the ore successfully
50 |25
100 |50
|
|
player is mining mastery
Many good suggestions, since i know what the limitations are going to be, i'll just agree with vogar and weems that we can keep the percentages low.
As for addressing getting newer players interested in mining, or explaining to current players that mining can be fun, or a good alternative to 'buying', maybe more things can be added --
quests which involve the player mining up minerals
(like player gets quest to mine up bloodstone - miners will never find this mineral - except when doing the quest, and the quest will say, ok, you have a 5% chance everytime you dig to uncover this rock.
quests which involve the player killing specific creatures (encounters) which may have to do with a storyline
(such as having opposing mining cities that hate each other, and having mining encounters with the opposing cities miners) (kill 15 kender miners)
treasure maps for underground treasure
If during the course of doing these quests, the player gets interested in mining, then cool
I'm replying to notes as I read them, one by one Just to add a bit to this discussion in the form of game mechanics:
This is my /intended/ way of how things will function now. currently, resources aren't properly destroyed, and there is no way to get the better gemstones with anything other than a special or exceptional success (explained below).
When you mine, your skill is rolled up to three times. For example, if you where mining(75%)->cookies(50%)->fudge-cookies(25%), it would be split up like this:
Roll A: one dice of 100 (1D100) minus five, if you roll it below your first skill Mining(75%), you achieve a common success. If you roll a common success, you can roll B.
Roll B: one dice of 125 (1D125), if you roll it below your second skill Cookies (50%), you achieve a special success. If you roll a special success, you can Roll C.
Roll C: one dice of 150 (1D50), if you roll it below your last skill fudge-cookies 25%, you achieve an exceptional success.
A failure will let you mine up nothing, and makes you ruin a considerable amount (if not all) of resources (except for stone, its there to annoy you. BWOEHAHA).
A common success will let you mine up a lot of simple ore/gem types, or a limited amount (or none) of valuable ore/gem types. Each common, you ruin what you would otherwise dig up if you rolled a special or exceptional success.
A special success allows you to mine up more of a specific kind of resource. For example, more gems, or more ores. You ruin what you would otherwise dig up if you rolled an exceptional success.
An exceptional success allows you to mine up a lot more of a specific resource, for example, gold. This lets you dig up resources without destroying any.
I hope this clears up what Intend things to be like. *reads on*
With the latest mine patch, I destroy all the ores more often now, but with gemstone there seems to be a problem.
I have an almost maxed out ore miner.
I can mine everything rarer than Carnelian with ease, almost no destruction, and I destroy almost all the citrine and carnelian I come across. There seems to be something backwards in this area.
I don't know what was intended to be changed. However whatever was changed seems to be backwards.
Stone used to be harder to mine through. You had to actually mine it. Destroying it only removed about 25-50 pieces depending on stone being mined. Success however mined a heck of a lot faster, at 350 or so pieces. Now that the changes went in, we can destroy about 250 pieces of stone at a time. That means even a 100% ore/gem miner can mine through granite at roughly the rate as a 100% Granite miner. Why? Because they are destroying at about the same rate he can dig.
Gems seem easier to both get and destroy. The rarer the gem, the easier it seems to get with a 100% miner of any kind. A day ago, a 100% Ore miner could only pop citrine and carnelian reliably in small ammounts. Now a 100% ore miner can pull small ammounts of any gem at all. That includes Jade, Diamonds, and Blue Diamonds.
Destroy rates for stuff your good at mining are a bit insane. a 100% mitrill miner can mine 1 to 10 ore, or destroy 10 ore at any given dig. It ends up he nearly destroys as much mitrill as he mines. Is anyone else going to get any better then him? Why then is there that metal there if even an addept is going to destroy it.
Other metals minablity for a mitrill miner has gone down markedly. Iron can be mined at about 5-30 ore at a time, or 60 ore is destroyed. Meteorite (if it can be found) is a toss up between destroying it all, and getting one ore.
In short, its a lot easier to burn through walls and get rare gems. Its a lot harder to get materials your susposed to be good to decent at getting.
On another note.... a lot of '?' treasures appear on pathways. However they aren't appearing to spawn correctly. The rooms are not becoming filled so that they need to be mined again. The result is that you can mine toward a '?' just to find nothing is there, not even stone to mine through.
I have noticed the stone mining much faster if you fail than if you succeed.
My 99% mitrill 1% granite miner is doing what Vogar described, mining 1 or 2 and destroying 10 ore. My 99% gem 1% granite miner has trouble mining carnelian and citrine...burning up 11 at a time....but can mine higher than that with at least 1 gem per spot. I love the new mining and am not complaining here, just wanting to share my findings to hopefully help out.
I WOULD feel for kiasyn, except that she's been bragging about the meteorite pulling for the last few days now. It seems that as long as imbalance benefits her, it's fine. But if it doesn't, it's wrong.
If you would scroll up Kiasyn, you will notice what Sardonyx and myself found about mining. I watches someone pull 6 Uncut Blue Diamond from a wall of Obvious ammounts. With the mining skill they had, they should have destroyed all of it, or pulled one piece.
Had you thought to report that kinda of stuff Kiasyn? Or would your rather spend your time looking for Blue Diamond? Saying "people are making and selling blue-diamond jewelry" doesn't say a lick about mining now does it? For all that could mean, someone found a way to boost crafting success rates. Someone could have also have got those diamonds in chests. Or they could have just decided to use blue diamonds they have been sitting on for months now.
Oh no! Someone with a blue diamond ring! Kiasyn did not make it! Lets purge them! Quick before the word spreads!
ok lemme rephrase. BECAUSE OF THE ABUNDANCE OF BLUE DIAMOND IN THE MINES PEOPLE ARE NOW BUYING BLUE DIAMOND JEWELLERY AND CRAP THAT ISNT MADE BY ME (EVEN THO I HAVE NEVER MADE ANY BLUE DIAMOND JEWELLERY)
Ok....I agree that the previous patch made mining a little too easy, but I have a complaint with this new patch. If you take a 0% adepted miner down to mine something, you constantly destroy things and never get anything accomplished. How am I suppose to adept a mining technique if everything I do is destroyed with no raise in percentages. This reminds me of salvaging except...I can mine for hours and hours...and never get a thing. At least, prior to the mining changes, if you didn't dig something up, you still raised a small percentage. I think this should be allowed again. Otherwise, new miners are going to get too frustrated and quit the mining deal. Not to mention that this isn't fair, because players that already are adepted have nothing to worry about with this new patch. I'm not saying that when things are destroyed that you raise the same amount as when you succeed, but like the old mining...raise a smaller percent...at least you would be getting somewhere.
Ling has about 50/50% in citrine/carnelian respectively and he ruins the gems pretty often. Is this intended? On the other hand, Aiglis can dig up jades, obsidians, zircon at a much more success rate even though his skill in those gems are significantly lower. Is this right?
Finally i've played around with the new mining system and one thing that i've notice is the confusion. Maybe i'm still too new to the the whole mining thing. I often find myself lost in the mine. Especially when i switch between alts.
It would be really nice if we can mark our trails along the mine. Perhaps something like X's.
Other from the above concerns, the mine is great. I like it alot more than before. It is a bit more difficult to bot(not that i bot) but it is alot more dynamic. Mining is actually fun and exciting now.
I WOULD feel for kiasyn, except that she's been bragging about the meteorite pulling for the last few days now. It seems that as long as imbalance benefits her, it's fine. But if it doesn't, it's wrong.
I WOULD feel for kiasyn, except that she's been bragging about the meteorite pulling for the last few days now. It seems that as long as imbalance benefits her, it's fine. But if it doesn't, it's wrong.
erm... kiasyns a guy
At the itme of that posting, I believe kiasyn was still a female. And plus, if you correct people every time they call kiasyn a woman, you will be doing it for a very long time. Those of us who have known kiasyn a long time have been conditioned to think of him/her as a her...So theres not much we can do, the tongue (fingers) slips.
well... i would like to add something to the mining % and what they could mine up for example, my shalestone miner has never ever ruined any adamantite or meteorite (100% shalestone) another weird combo... adamantite/meteorite and shalestone... so i dont make a cool adamantite/meteorite miner... i just use my shalestone miner for that (so it comes down to that my shalestone miner mines better than a 100% meteorite/adamantite miner )
well... i would like to add something to the mining % and what they could mine up for example, my shalestone miner has never ever ruined any adamantite or meteorite (100% shalestone) another weird combo... adamantite/meteorite and shalestone... so i dont make a cool adamantite/meteorite miner... i just use my shalestone miner for that (so it comes down to that my shalestone miner mines better than a 100% meteorite/adamantite miner )
Xaho
If you think so...
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), but could someone please explain about the percentage skill when you mine up a resource? I only have skill in mining up bronze, i have 0% in mining mitrill, yet i managed to mine up about 300 mitrill ore in about 2/3 hours yesterday. I don't think I should be able to mine mitrill with 0% in it, I don't think it's all that fair on those who have spent ages adepting mitrill (although it sure is nice 
, and it worked 
(100% shalestone) another weird combo... adamantite/meteorite and shalestone... so i dont make a cool adamantite/meteorite miner... i just use my shalestone miner for that 
)