as per weems suggestion, old topic is locked, new vote being put forth.
see /t/864/ and pay particular attention to Celeborns views before you vote.
please note that there would be some form of reimbursement in place, but you are NOT going to be left with everything you have now.
things you would most likely be left with would be character names, empty structures, guilds
So your identity would stay, but the game as a whole would begin anew.
---snip--- Ideas on reimbursement from Celeborn
- The ability to boost your characters and pets back to an approximation of its former glory as far as your credit and the new system allows.
- An x number of wishes/credits, comparable to your former wealth, which allow you to re-wish items, resources, pet eggs, whatever.
- A reservation to names you've used before. (character names, pet names, guild names).
- Deeds to replace guilds, citadels, shops, etc.
---snip---
updated voting, to see where everyone stands now
Started by Isabelle on Aug 24, 2005 · 38 posts in thread
📊 Poll
📊 Poll: starting the mud over, a better way
28 total votesIsabelle (#1)
Kiasyn (#2)
I'm curious but would this reimbursement system be able to make poitns out of say... bronze mining which can be spent on anything?
Like if you got 5 points for bronze mining and you decided to spend it in levels or something...?
Like if you got 5 points for bronze mining and you decided to spend it in levels or something...?
weems (#3)
I don't think the people who voted 'let celeborn make his new mud' realize that all work on DL will stop if this happens.
weems (#4)
I hope not. Thats a terrible idea.kiasyn wrote:I'm curious but would this reimbursement system be able to make poitns out of say... bronze mining which can be spent on anything?
Like if you got 5 points for bronze mining and you decided to spend it in levels or something...?
Kiasyn (#5)
exactly why i askedweems wrote:I hope not. Thats a terrible idea.kiasyn wrote:I'm curious but would this reimbursement system be able to make poitns out of say... bronze mining which can be spent on anything?
Like if you got 5 points for bronze mining and you decided to spend it in levels or something...?
Kiasyn (#6)
Theres no other 'don't start over' option!weems wrote:I don't think the people who voted 'let celeborn make his new mud' realize that all work on DL will stop if this happens.
weems (#7)
Good point. ISABELLE, you messed up.kiasyn wrote:Theres no other 'don't start over' option!weems wrote:I don't think the people who voted 'let celeborn make his new mud' realize that all work on DL will stop if this happens.
Isabelle (#8)
yes there is
"i am not interested in starting over, let celeborn make his new mud"
there is no option for "celeborn you are not allowed to fix this mud, and you are not allowed to work on a mud thats actually fair, and makes you happy, but you are required to stay here, and continue patching it together with bits of glue and band-aids, and we will continue to complain about it not being fair"
its not currently an option, besides, i'm sure there will be the occassional update on DL even after his new mud comes in, it will just have to sit second fiddle next to his main one.
"i am not interested in starting over, let celeborn make his new mud"
there is no option for "celeborn you are not allowed to fix this mud, and you are not allowed to work on a mud thats actually fair, and makes you happy, but you are required to stay here, and continue patching it together with bits of glue and band-aids, and we will continue to complain about it not being fair"
its not currently an option, besides, i'm sure there will be the occassional update on DL even after his new mud comes in, it will just have to sit second fiddle next to his main one.
Kiasyn (#9)
ahahaha
Kiasyn (#10)
Celeborn... if the problem is ? upgrading pfiles to a new format or whatever... why dont you code a function or something that loadsup the entire pbase (i assume they're upgraded when they login) one by one gets their pfile upgraded then saves it as the new format... sure this would be lag the mud up for a bit but then you can remove the upgrade code... right?
EDIT: Hell.. i'm going to do this on my mud
EDIT: Hell.. i'm going to do this on my mud
Kiasyn (#11)
Sounds like he'd prefer not to start a new mud.Celeborn wrote:Or do a mud split and start Petal vs Blade on cleaned up DL code (which would mean hardly any time for old-dl, not something i prefer at this time).
Celeborn wrote:First off I lothe pwipes due to the negative impact it has on the unwilling so support would have to be very big.
Celeborn wrote:But anyhow, a pwipe is not happening without cooperation of most of the pbase, so you're probably safe.
sounds like he doesn't want a pwipe either.. wheres the middle ground.?Celeborn wrote:I've strived against pwipes since the beginning of DL.
Isabelle (#12)
Well, i'm going to help him with Petal vs Blade, which he is working on, i just posted those notes to see who was interested in making things easy for him.
No big deal, he'll just run both for now, although this way, he will end up splitting his time between projects, rather than focussing on one.
regarding your previous note, Celeborn isnt concerned about 'upgrading pfiles' he's upgraded pfiles in the past. He's talking about a 'different system' and i just wanted to see if players were interested in such a system, the only thing is... they would lose 'who they are presently'
Players already said they do not want to lose what they have, so the discussion is pretty much done now, we'll just work on 'P vs B' and see how it turns out
If players migrate to the new mud once it's opened, so be it
(Disclaimer: these are all my views, not Celeborns)
No big deal, he'll just run both for now, although this way, he will end up splitting his time between projects, rather than focussing on one.
regarding your previous note, Celeborn isnt concerned about 'upgrading pfiles' he's upgraded pfiles in the past. He's talking about a 'different system' and i just wanted to see if players were interested in such a system, the only thing is... they would lose 'who they are presently'
Players already said they do not want to lose what they have, so the discussion is pretty much done now, we'll just work on 'P vs B' and see how it turns out
If players migrate to the new mud once it's opened, so be it
(Disclaimer: these are all my views, not Celeborns)
Kiasyn (#13)
I was talking about the memory usage not the system.Isabelle wrote:regarding your previous note, Celeborn isnt concerned about 'upgrading pfiles' he's upgraded pfiles in the past. He's talking about a 'different system' and i just wanted to see if players were interested in such a system, the only thing is... they would lose 'who they are presently'
Isabelle (#14)
I believe the memory usage has more to do with areas and coding.
Although i'm sure pfiles are pretty large as well.
Although i'm sure pfiles are pretty large as well.
Kiasyn (#15)
you don't understand me.. never mind ill talk to cele on msn
Celeborn (#16)
It should be obvious that the reimbursement would be designed with a players best interest in mind, so any concerns like this would be adressed. True design of a reimbursement system has simply not been done.kiasyn wrote:I'm curious but would this reimbursement system be able to make poitns out of say... bronze mining which can be spent on anything?
Like if you got 5 points for bronze mining and you decided to spend it in levels or something...?
Celeborn (#17)
Isa's statement is true. To be honest, a split is looking the best option at this time.Isabelle wrote:yes there is
"i am not interested in starting over, let celeborn make his new mud"
there is no option for "celeborn you are not allowed to fix this mud, and you are not allowed to work on a mud thats actually fair, and makes you happy, but you are required to stay here, and continue patching it together with bits of glue and band-aids, and we will continue to complain about it not being fair"
its not currently an option, besides, i'm sure there will be the occassional update on DL even after his new mud comes in, it will just have to sit second fiddle next to his main one.
Celeborn (#18)
I can simply convert players from multiclassed-50-levels-plus-unlimited-epic-levels-with-weird-formulaes and everything else I want to alter to a different system, replace the way how every single item functions, etc. But in effect players will get screwed up characters, with half functioning and useless items, that they crafted and optimized for a different system. (Sort of like a pwipe that cripples you as a bonus, instead of a pwipe with reimbursement).kiasyn wrote:Celeborn... if the problem is ? upgrading pfiles to a new format or whatever... why dont you code a function or something that loadsup the entire pbase (i assume they're upgraded when they login) one by one gets their pfile upgraded then saves it as the new format... sure this would be lag the mud up for a bit but then you can remove the upgrade code... right?
EDIT: Hell.. i'm going to do this on my mud
Celeborn (#19)
Think of it like this: all the players have objects from every single area on the mud, and code depends on certain mobiles and rooms being there. This blocks our means of just removing all areas and replacing them with our own (would be like a pwipe)..kiasyn wrote:I was talking about the memory usage not the system.Isabelle wrote:regarding your previous note, Celeborn isnt concerned about 'upgrading pfiles' he's upgraded pfiles in the past. He's talking about a 'different system' and i just wanted to see if players were interested in such a system, the only thing is... they would lose 'who they are presently'
ShanaArkai (#20)
i think cele should just do the pwipe and fix it, if that is what he would like to do, im sure most of the pbase would be pissed for a while but then they would see that the new system works better, im sure anyone that has stuck around this long and through all the other patches would still stick around atleast long enought to try the new system and see if they like it, ive put a lot of time into crafting and what not my self, and i did it all by typing every last bit out unlike most who just sets a trigger and leaves or sets a trigger and chats for hours. if there were reimburstments i dont realy think it would be so bad. most people delete their old chars and start new ones after every patch anyways (any that changes the classes/races/fighting system). i know i for one will still play as long as DL has a mini map much like it does right now. the mini map is the only thing that got me hooked in the first place. i guess ill stop talking now, but i vote yes on the pwipe
Kamseki Estel (#21)
I'm gonna go with isabelle on this topic
It seems that not very many (not even 90%) of the mud wants a pwipe so let cele make his new mud and update us every so often
Nothing TOOO wrong with the way it runs now...I see hardly any crashes besides the citadel crash thing and the game runs perfectly fine for me...Oh btw some people might not run as smoothly due to their clients (and i have tested many clients and had problems with a few)
So it seems that to me a pwipe wouldn't really do anything besides make everybody pissed...
It seems that not very many (not even 90%) of the mud wants a pwipe so let cele make his new mud and update us every so often
Nothing TOOO wrong with the way it runs now...I see hardly any crashes besides the citadel crash thing and the game runs perfectly fine for me...Oh btw some people might not run as smoothly due to their clients (and i have tested many clients and had problems with a few)
So it seems that to me a pwipe wouldn't really do anything besides make everybody pissed...
Guest (WhiteShadow) (#22)
Well Cele, whatever you feel is best for DL I'll back you up 100% 
ShanaArkai (#23)
same here, what ever is best for cele/easyest for cele (i mean, je is the only reason we play)
Guest (gilthanas) (#24)
Well, I haven't been playing DL for very long...But I have been mudding for quite some time..And so far, DL is the best, in my opinion. Its easy to understand..not hard on newbs like myself, and you get cool rewards for getting to high levels. A full player wipe wouldn't benefit the mud..It needs players, and a pwipe would most likely chase alot of people off. But we do need the mud to be fixed..There are a few glitches I've noticed. However, I am quite curious about this "new mud" of Celeborns..Is it going to be based off of DL code wise?
Chilliwack (#25)
forgive my newbish ignorance... but is this thread basically saying that dark-legacy might die?
weems (#26)
No.Chilliwack wrote:forgive my newbish ignorance... but is this thread basically saying that dark-legacy might die?
Chilliwack (#27)
thats good
sorry bout that... i got a lil nervous
sorry bout that... i got a lil nervous
Chilliwack (#28)
i guess nervous isnt the word... scared, maybe
EDIT: ack, forgot about edit on last post, sorry
EDIT: ack, forgot about edit on last post, sorry
Quintos (#29)
There is always a chance Dark-Legacy might die anyway. If I am not mistaken, Celeborn did pull the plug for a couple days a while ago, did he not?
Chilliwack (#30)
how long is a while ago?
that thought scares me... this is the best mud ive ever played, and i doubt ill find one as good as it...
unless, of course, that new one isabelle mentioned is as good...
oh well...
that thought scares me... this is the best mud ive ever played, and i doubt ill find one as good as it...
unless, of course, that new one isabelle mentioned is as good...
oh well...
Quintos (#31)
From what I hear so far, it seems that PvB should be quite fun. It's going to be Celeborn's other MUD once it comes out. I would not expect a production MUD up for quite a long time though.
Gilgolad (#32)
i dont think you could start this mud over again and reimburse people no matter how little you do for them, especially since you'd have to talk with every player individually about what they get.
can't we just fix it like we always have?
I pray for the Miracle Patch that will let us play loop free and bug free for ever.......
can't we just fix it like we always have?
I pray for the Miracle Patch that will let us play loop free and bug free for ever.......
Isabelle (#33)
i could explain in detail why making DL all nice and comfy via a patch could never work, but basically, its a code based upon broken code. It has been patched up and patched up, and is too far gone to just patch up again. The only way to truly fix it is to do major overhauling, which the players do not want.
It's not to say there wont be upgrades in the future, it's playable right now, and i don't think anyone should expect too much more out of it.
I foresee people eventually moving over to the other mud.
Those who have ambition and interest in the new mud are always welcome to pop over to help out.
http://wiki.petalvsblade.com/index.php
It's not to say there wont be upgrades in the future, it's playable right now, and i don't think anyone should expect too much more out of it.
I foresee people eventually moving over to the other mud.
Those who have ambition and interest in the new mud are always welcome to pop over to help out.
http://wiki.petalvsblade.com/index.php
Gilgolad (#34)
is the new mud alot like DL only with a lot of cool improvements and a different story line??
Gilgolad (#35)
oh, one more thing, if cele needs money to keep DL alive, and pay his bills ect., why the heck is he makeing a new MUD????????
If he cleaned up DL (After everyone can agree on a way to do that) he can continue expanding DL and only have to pay for one MUD, right?
If he cleaned up DL (After everyone can agree on a way to do that) he can continue expanding DL and only have to pay for one MUD, right?
Chilliwack (#36)
i dont know much about this, but if its on the same server, you can just get a free dns and point petalvsblade.com to whatever the server name is
sorry if this is wrong
sorry if this is wrong
grykon (#37)
I would hate to see a pwipe...while my main alt is no where near as leveled as some, I have used him on and off for a little over 2 years now and I really don't want to start anything over...what I am wondering is...what about writing a program to read in the player database, and convert the characters to the new idea...leaving in place all items, gold, buildings, pets whatever they have...just make the changes to the characters that would allow you to use the new system. (Not sure what you have planned/fixed over the current code)
Might take a little work in figuring out how to convert things...but I think might be a better solution then a pwipe or starting a whole new mud. Personally I would love to have a copy of the code base from 2 years ago. I thought it was a great mud then. Of all the muds I have tried DL is the only one to keep my attention or desire to play psat more then a few hours.
Whatever your decision Cele, I greatly appreciate your hard work and generousity of running this!!
Might take a little work in figuring out how to convert things...but I think might be a better solution then a pwipe or starting a whole new mud. Personally I would love to have a copy of the code base from 2 years ago. I thought it was a great mud then. Of all the muds I have tried DL is the only one to keep my attention or desire to play psat more then a few hours.
Whatever your decision Cele, I greatly appreciate your hard work and generousity of running this!!
Isabelle (#38)
i think that the intent of the thread has been clouded
there is no pwipe
thread closed
there is no pwipe
thread closed
