Here is an updated list of rules and regulations for Justice Council members.
First, the purpose of the J.C. is to assist in jailing and judging players who have broken the laws regarding illegal player assaults and murders.
#1 You /cannot/ jail someone unless they have a criminal flag.
#2 Favouritism is not allowed, It may happen, if it does, you will be caught, you will be jailed for cheating and stripped of your position.
#3 Bail does not exist, bribes will get you jailed for cheating and stripped of your position.
#4 When a player is jailed, you must follow these rules:
4a You must find out what happened from the aggressor.
4b You must find out what happened from the victim.
4c You must decide if it was accidental or not.
(Special consideration to new players who are obviously confused)
4d Judge the player accordingly.
4e If the player appears to be truly a newbie, and it appears as though it was an entirely accidental crime, you must speak to a caretaker. (send me a PM, or send a tell to an online caretaker)
4f It's all about fair play, remember that, live by that.
4g Lastly, after it's done, a note must be placed in the Justice Council board room, with a description of what happened. A summary of events is more than acceptable.
#5 If you see someone in jail, with a flag reading [Awaiting Judgement] you MUST take care of it. If i catch you leaving the player to rot, for any reason, you will be stripped of your position, and publicly humiliated for your actions. I reserve the right to be imaginative with your public humiliation.
The current council has been disbanded so that i could ensure you have read these rules. Those who wish to re-apply, may do so.
Justice Council
Started by Isabelle on May 17, 2005 · 54 posts in thread
Isabelle (#1)
Isabelle (#2)
Justice Council commands:
jail visit - visit the current areas jail cell
jail [player] - jail a player marked with a [criminal] flag
jail judge [player] # - judge a player
The councilroom is in the far west corridor of the jail complex.
A 1 way pillar is located there to help you get back to the outside world.
jail visit - visit the current areas jail cell
jail [player] - jail a player marked with a [criminal] flag
jail judge [player] # - judge a player
The councilroom is in the far west corridor of the jail complex.
A 1 way pillar is located there to help you get back to the outside world.
Zidane (#3)
ok i understand about the JC is to assist in jailing and judging players who have broken the laws regarding illegal player assaults and murders. what if your trying to help someone to get vampire to bite then and get a pardon in return? this is accidental ,correct? 
Ok for the [Awaiting Judgement] only JC members can see this correct? if so maybe i should apply again and see if they're is opening now
i think more rules should apply or a change as in so we dont have to chase someone down we can just judge player and you and the person are in jail to talk about it.
Ok for the [Awaiting Judgement] only JC members can see this correct? if so maybe i should apply again and see if they're is opening now
i think more rules should apply or a change as in so we dont have to chase someone down we can just judge player and you and the person are in jail to talk about it.
Quintos (#4)
This would go against the original idea setforth for the justice council, that being an RP role. For IC crimes, characters should have to be chased down, I even believe they should need to be subdued, but that's non-negotiable I have been told. For OOC crimes, only imms can arrest criminals and they are able to transport them as it is. I do not believe that ordinary justice guards should gain the ability to transport anyone to jail, even criminals.zidane wrote:i think more rules should apply or a change as in so we dont have to chase someone down we can just judge player and you and the person are in jail to talk about it.
Isabelle (#5)
if you are helping someone become a vampire, you bite them, and they report you, and then you get sent to jail... then either A) it was not done willingly, or B) it was done to someone who doesnt like you.
(You will go to jail unless pardoned by the victim)
(You will go to jail unless pardoned by the victim)
Vogar Eol (#6)
There are only two actions that can be made from jail. The first is to jailtalk. The second is to use a bank function.
The reason for the first is of course to plead your case or to speak to caretakers and justices.
The origional reason for the second was so that people in jail COULD post their own bail, and COULD hand out bribes. Why? Because origionally the JC was suspose to be an RP function. What is it now? Its become nothing more then a group of mini-caretakers whose special purpose is to handle PvP crimes and accidents.
What would happen if players completely boycotted the JC and refused to apply for membership? Caretakers would be forced to act in their stead. Yes, this would waste valuable Caretaker time, but it proves my above point. JC has completely departed from its origional concept as an RP council, and is now 100% an admin function. As an RP'er I dislike that.
On another note, I completely agree with Quintos. I feel that a crime committed IC should require them to either capture you by subdue, or hold a trial without you present and conduct a manhunt to the death (declared outlaw). Will it ever be that way? I 100% doubt it.
The reason for the first is of course to plead your case or to speak to caretakers and justices.
The origional reason for the second was so that people in jail COULD post their own bail, and COULD hand out bribes. Why? Because origionally the JC was suspose to be an RP function. What is it now? Its become nothing more then a group of mini-caretakers whose special purpose is to handle PvP crimes and accidents.
What would happen if players completely boycotted the JC and refused to apply for membership? Caretakers would be forced to act in their stead. Yes, this would waste valuable Caretaker time, but it proves my above point. JC has completely departed from its origional concept as an RP council, and is now 100% an admin function. As an RP'er I dislike that.
On another note, I completely agree with Quintos. I feel that a crime committed IC should require them to either capture you by subdue, or hold a trial without you present and conduct a manhunt to the death (declared outlaw). Will it ever be that way? I 100% doubt it.
Dunadan (#7)
Haven't we already talked about bail and rp on this forum before? The main reason why bail was taken away was because people who are able to pay bail often times get right out of jail, go kill someone, get in jail, pay bail, go kill someone again. Whereas if they were put in jail for say 48 hours, they'd have 48 hours of no killing and time to cool down and think what they've done. We've tried the bail system before, and it didn't work at all, we've tried the current system, and it's been able to work a lot better.
Dunadan (#8)
As for this i don't ever see this happening, not only are most of the current JC those that have been in it for a while, but also a lot of people want to be JC. A current boycott if pulled off (don't know how it could be), would only stop people from applying, not stop people (like me) from being a JC. A lot of players view the JC as a defense against illegal acts like pkilling, and a lot of players wish to help by upholding those lawsVogar Eol wrote:
What would happen if players completely boycotted the JC and refused to apply for membership? Caretakers would be forced to act in their stead. Yes, this would waste valuable Caretaker time, but it proves my above point.
P.S. There are more actions available in jail then just those two, like drink
, but i'm done arguing .
Isabelle (#9)
bail was removed because of abuse.
when a guild / and select players decided they would make money killing players, that ended it.
the idea of bail, sounds great on paper
the idea of bribes also sounds cool on paper
in reality, it sucks, and players get slaughtered, and don't have any means left to them, other than to stop playing, or use a different character and hopefully not get slaughtered again.
(and, because of pkills making it so that you can't supplicate your corpse - the victim also loses all their possessions from corpse campers)
So tell you what, you fix it so that there arent crap players who make others gameplay hell, and we'll see what we can do.
when a guild / and select players decided they would make money killing players, that ended it.
the idea of bail, sounds great on paper
the idea of bribes also sounds cool on paper
in reality, it sucks, and players get slaughtered, and don't have any means left to them, other than to stop playing, or use a different character and hopefully not get slaughtered again.
(and, because of pkills making it so that you can't supplicate your corpse - the victim also loses all their possessions from corpse campers)
So tell you what, you fix it so that there arent crap players who make others gameplay hell, and we'll see what we can do.
chubbukoku (#10)
I have a proposition for the report/pardon system and jail times..
I think, that if you are jailed for murder, justified or not, you shouldn't be able to be pardoned at all once judged.
if assault..you can be pardoned after half the time of your judgment has elapsed, not before.
etc etc...
I don't think it's right, that if someone get's put in jail for something, they get judged and sent to jail for a certain length of time, then they shuold have to deal with it.
I think, that if you are jailed for murder, justified or not, you shouldn't be able to be pardoned at all once judged.
if assault..you can be pardoned after half the time of your judgment has elapsed, not before.
etc etc...
I don't think it's right, that if someone get's put in jail for something, they get judged and sent to jail for a certain length of time, then they shuold have to deal with it.
Quintos (#11)
Probably sounds bad, but that's the whole idea of bribes/bails...those who have means can get away doing whatever the hell they want. Hell, it's not like those with means aren't treated differently in real life too. Bail is always considerably easier for a rich man to post, let alone the fact that the CEO isn't gonna be seen being thrown against a wall, frisked, handcuffed, and thrown into the back of a cop car.
Bribes are meant to let the rich get away with whatever they want.
Bribes are meant to let the rich get away with whatever they want.
Isabelle (#12)
possibly, but it cannot happen until 'pk' rules come into place
such as 5 minute free time after you get pkilled, which allows you to gather your corpse and run away.
the complete removal of astral walk
- or, an astral walk patch which prevents players from astralling to players via a toggle.
(default would be noastral)
the removal of loot being dropped on death (to prevent unscrupulous players from planning a 'kill' then 'intentionally crash the mud' scenario. (to make a player lose their possessions)
safe zones (area wide) for players
if all those things came to be, then perhaps bribes, bail, might be acceptable.
in other words, there must be protection in place first. And players have to have a fair chance of playing without guaranteed death.
such as 5 minute free time after you get pkilled, which allows you to gather your corpse and run away.
the complete removal of astral walk
- or, an astral walk patch which prevents players from astralling to players via a toggle.
(default would be noastral)
the removal of loot being dropped on death (to prevent unscrupulous players from planning a 'kill' then 'intentionally crash the mud' scenario. (to make a player lose their possessions)
safe zones (area wide) for players
if all those things came to be, then perhaps bribes, bail, might be acceptable.
in other words, there must be protection in place first. And players have to have a fair chance of playing without guaranteed death.
Zidane (#13)
i have to agree put a limit of time and make it double for each crime they do or just have the J.C. members have a max of limit of jail time. If the player is jail more then once then the jail time should double or one of the following:Chubbukoku wrote:I don't think it's right, that if someone get's put in jail for something, they get judged and sent to jail for a certain length of time, then they shuold have to deal with it.
A.) player recreates.(escaping from jail and have to relevel)
B.) player learns s/he lesson.
C.) Player account is jail with all 8 characters because of bad actions.
zidane wrote:The game is suppose be fun but we have to take out the bad time or influences that ruin it for other players.
Zidane (#14)
Ok its not fun if someone is cursing of a storm on the ooc channel and going on a kill sphree. Most of all killing one of the C.J. for kicks.Quintos wrote:This would go against the original idea setforth for the justice council, that being an RP role. For IC crimes, characters should have to be chased down, I even believe they should need to be subdued, but that's non-negotiable I have been told. For OOC crimes, only imms can arrest criminals and they are able to transport them as it is. I do not believe that ordinary justice guards should gain the ability to transport anyone to jail, even criminals.
Non-Negotiable! demeoloy is not tolarated peroid exuse the typo just a quick note here *back to work*
Vogar Eol (#15)
With all due respect, since LOOTING is gone, there is absolutely no reason a corpse shouldn't be allowed to be supplicated after a pkill. The only reason it was like that in the first place was because of looting. The idea was you get time to pick over their corpse and they can't just supplicate away your prize.
Since looting is completely and utterly gone, there is no reason we shouldn't make it possible to supplicate a corpse after a pkill. Currently, all it takes is someone pissed at you to aggree to help you run a supermob thats aggressive. Once past lots of other hard mobs, and right at the hostile supermob they need just turn on you and your corpse is as good as gone.
Another case and point is in really high level epic dungeons. If killed deep inside a fresh level, the chances of making it back solo are zilch and nill. If the evil-doer is camping my corpse in epic, just how does the JC make me feel safer?
All JC do is clean up the mess afterwords, and MAYBE if they are tough, smart enough, and on at the right time, help a few people out of these sticky situations.
As for Bail and Bribes, why should ANY money go to the JC individuals? If its trully about RP, give the darn Justices a council bank account. They can play a crooked cop and take the bribe without personally getting the money. Let any money from Bail/Bribes go DIRECTLY to that council account, and let that general fund be used to help people who HAVE been abused by criminals. In a for instance, lets say a corpse was camped in epic and someone lost everything they had. That general fund could be used as a charity case.
On another note, each crime should have VERY specific punishments, and not just time sitting and rotting.
Murder: Rot in jail
Justified Murder: Rot in jail, with possible parole for good behavior.
Assault: Rot in jail, pay a heavy fine, or both
Theft: Rot in jail, pay a heavy fine, or both
Harassment: jail time, or fine
ect....
Think of real life crimes: 10 years or $100,000 fine....
PS... If a fine is not stopping people, the fine is NOT high enough. Also lets say you could rot in jail for 100hrs, or you could pay the fine and rot for 5 hours.... which would you pick?
Since looting is completely and utterly gone, there is no reason we shouldn't make it possible to supplicate a corpse after a pkill. Currently, all it takes is someone pissed at you to aggree to help you run a supermob thats aggressive. Once past lots of other hard mobs, and right at the hostile supermob they need just turn on you and your corpse is as good as gone.
Another case and point is in really high level epic dungeons. If killed deep inside a fresh level, the chances of making it back solo are zilch and nill. If the evil-doer is camping my corpse in epic, just how does the JC make me feel safer?
All JC do is clean up the mess afterwords, and MAYBE if they are tough, smart enough, and on at the right time, help a few people out of these sticky situations.
As for Bail and Bribes, why should ANY money go to the JC individuals? If its trully about RP, give the darn Justices a council bank account. They can play a crooked cop and take the bribe without personally getting the money. Let any money from Bail/Bribes go DIRECTLY to that council account, and let that general fund be used to help people who HAVE been abused by criminals. In a for instance, lets say a corpse was camped in epic and someone lost everything they had. That general fund could be used as a charity case.
On another note, each crime should have VERY specific punishments, and not just time sitting and rotting.
Murder: Rot in jail
Justified Murder: Rot in jail, with possible parole for good behavior.
Assault: Rot in jail, pay a heavy fine, or both
Theft: Rot in jail, pay a heavy fine, or both
Harassment: jail time, or fine
ect....
Think of real life crimes: 10 years or $100,000 fine....
PS... If a fine is not stopping people, the fine is NOT high enough. Also lets say you could rot in jail for 100hrs, or you could pay the fine and rot for 5 hours.... which would you pick?
Nellwyn (#16)
I agree.Chubbukoku wrote:I think, that if you are jailed for murder, justified or not, you shouldn't be able to be pardoned at all once judged.
if assault..you can be pardoned after half the time of your judgment has elapsed, not before.
Quintos (#17)
If the person is coming out to kill a JG - I assume that is what you meant by C.J. - then the rest of the JC could come and arrest the person. Perhaps we should force the JC to equip their characters properly so that they won't be able to be killed for kicks.Zidane wrote:Ok its not fun if someone is cursing of a storm on the ooc channel and going on a kill sphree. Most of all killing one of the C.J. for kicks.
Non-Negotiable! demeoloy is not tolarated peroid exuse the typo just a quick note here *back to work*
There is one other flaw that I see with your idea. People can log what was said on OOC, ignore the person, and send it to Isabelle.
If your arguement is that things are not done enough when people are doing this, perhaps you believe Celeborn should pick a couple more players who can recieve low level immortals that have the ability to transport players to them and are on the JC. This is a possibility if you just want people who are on at all times to do things like this. They would have to know that their powers are just to be used for OOC crimes, however, and not for petty IC ones.
Zidane (#18)
Ok first thing J.C. are players that know better, and teach other new players "The ropes about the game" after that its up to the new players to become advance enough to have fun. Celeborn should'nt to have pick more players for low level imms. the code should be already there just add like a range rune command (no not the range rune). This way the player can be jail for misbehave and talk to s/he. This should relieved (to stop feelings distressed) immortals. Players should know better. if your over 18 year old and dont know better then the older players step up. Age is not a matter in the game. If it get out of hand then let the immortals handle it (banning). maybe if the person change his IP address then he will learn something not to do wrong to others (figture of speech).Quintos wrote:If the person is coming out to kill a JG - I assume that is what you meant by C.J. - then the rest of the JC could come and arrest the person. Perhaps we should force the JC to equip their characters properly so that they won't be able to be killed for kicks.
There is one other flaw that I see with your idea. People can log what was said on OOC, ignore the person, and send it to Isabelle.
If your arguement is that things are not done enough when people are doing this, perhaps you believe Celeborn should pick a couple more players who can recieve low level immortals that have the ability to transport players to them and are on the JC. This is a possibility if you just want people who are on at all times to do things like this. They would have to know that their powers are just to be used for OOC crimes, however, and not for petty IC ones.
Any exp. player know better when to ask and not to be a abuser.
(Abusers as in someone who regularly or habitually abuses someone and/or something in particlar).
hope you can understand what im saying J.C. players dont need anything special to jail someone to talk to the player to work it out first 
Zidane wrote:damn not like you need a few people to stay on all the time. I do not think this is a job super justice councils there're not getting pay for this but just make it fun.
Guest wrote:P.S if you see a typo/dont understand or trying to make something more powerful that is not needed then step aside peon! Your not going to get it here.
Zidane (#19)
Chubbukoku wrote:I think, that if you are jailed for murder, justified or not, you shouldn't be able to be pardoned at all once judged.
if assault..you can be pardoned after half the time of your judgment has elapsed, not before.
I don't think it's right, that if someone get's put in jail for something, they get judged and sent to jail for a certain length of time, then they shuold have to deal with it.
Zidane wrote:I cant help it if im real strong and testing my new spell out for the arena. I remember you having killer elementals
Quintos (#20)
There a rather distinct line between giving a council of people the ability to jail those who have been reported by a victim and giving a council of people the ability to jail anyone who they feel has done something worthy of jailing. While there are situation when it would obviously be appropriate to jail someone and situations where it is obviously not appropriate, there are also grey situations in between. You will argue that all JG are capable of distinguishing when they should and should not jail, but it will still cause more problems. Are we going to fully trust the JC? Are we going to have the imms check through pages of logs to decide if those who were jailed really deserved to be? If we go with the first option, we're asking for corruption. If we go with the second, I see little reason to implement this. If we truly do implement this, I believe we will need a function where 3 or more JC must vote to jail the accused. This will make it less likely to be affected by corruption while still making the job of immortals easier.
Isabelle (#21)
JC people can only jail and judge those who have been reported by a crime by another player. (specifically murder and assault)
its hard coded, the reason why one of my rules states to make sure the criminal has the 'criminal flag' is for the JC persons own protection, so that they don't get a crime against them, or mistakenly try to attack someone who is not a criminal.
that..will never change
jc people are players, not admins, admins handle ooc disciplinary action.
harassment, and such, we consider ooc due to their severity. Anything that threatens the game, or how the people play the game...adversely, is considered ooc.
its hard coded, the reason why one of my rules states to make sure the criminal has the 'criminal flag' is for the JC persons own protection, so that they don't get a crime against them, or mistakenly try to attack someone who is not a criminal.
that..will never change
jc people are players, not admins, admins handle ooc disciplinary action.
harassment, and such, we consider ooc due to their severity. Anything that threatens the game, or how the people play the game...adversely, is considered ooc.
Quintos (#22)
Thank you, Isabelle.
Tuler (#23)
Okay, you have a problem with people paying to get out of jail, killing, and paying again........... Why?
I kill Joe. I go to jail. I pay a mil to get out.
I kill Frank. I go to jail. I try to pay a mil to get out, get laughed at, and have to pay 5 mil if I want to get out.
Note, that these are just random numbers, but why not just up the cost A LOT. If they pay 500,000 gp the first time, then they'll have to pay a few mil the second or something..... That way, unless you're made of gold you won't have a problem.
I kill Joe. I go to jail. I pay a mil to get out.
I kill Frank. I go to jail. I try to pay a mil to get out, get laughed at, and have to pay 5 mil if I want to get out.
Note, that these are just random numbers, but why not just up the cost A LOT. If they pay 500,000 gp the first time, then they'll have to pay a few mil the second or something..... That way, unless you're made of gold you won't have a problem.
Zidane (#24)
Well if you ask me if you kill/murder someone you do the time no bailTuler wrote:Okay, you have a problem with people paying to get out of jail, killing, and paying again........... Why?
I kill Joe. I go to jail. I pay a mil to get out.
I kill Frank. I go to jail. I try to pay a mil to get out, get laughed at, and have to pay 5 mil if I want to get out.
Bruteus (#25)
well, I suppose it is time for me to put in my two sense, and stir things up. thats what im good at, eh? anyways... I beleive that bail and whatnot? good idea, just ensure that the prices of bail are worthy of the crime. bribe? absolutely not... thats when some guy who is good friends with a JC just kills and kills and kills. not on my watch. but I know that hours upon hours of nothing is alot of stress to someone - and they may very well leave the game because of it. thats my worry - havent we lost enough people? I mean, yes, alot of the people that go are people we wont miss, but good players sometimes get ticked, rampage, and get nailed for a ton of online hours, and then what? what if they quit? was the whole system worth it? was our paranoia worthwhile? to address the other aspect - the way we jail is weak. we only need to hit them once... and I think it is cheap. think from a player perspective... if they wanna RP thier character, the JC should be forced to subdue them to take them in... it isnt fair to those who are just playing thier character. I mean, if I am playing Demeron, and someone slights him somehow, he is going to go beserk on them. im tired of playing demeron alltogether, because thats his RP, and it is impossible for him to get away, because he literally doesnt stand a fighting chance - he isnt allowed too. noone is, and I think it is bad form. Isabelle, you had a very good point about corpse looting though - it IS something that needs to be addressed before we can implement the bail portion of this. but I am NOT worried about overpowered characters going on a rampage - this, if anything, will force JCs to work together to take in an especially dangerous criminal. I remember when we used to have huge in game events and RPing, where has alla this gone? I know I am ranting, but I havent had my say in this entire thread till now - so deal with it. =p I stand with Vogar and Quintos on this one... JC was originally an RP function, and its RP functionality is gone.
Beleives in capital punishment,
~Bruteus Lonewolf
Beleives in capital punishment,
~Bruteus Lonewolf
Bruteus (#26)
ooo... I just had a smashing idea...
what if we just jailed them for thier time, lets say they got nailed with 20 hours, ok? now, they had a command to reduce thier sentence... this command, everytime it is entered, reduces thier sentence by one hour, and reduces thier bank account by a set ammount, lets say 500k. so this poor sap who got 20 hours, could get out right away, only after they threw 10 million away. you know im on to something here...
Beleives in capital punishment,
~Bruteus Lonewolf
what if we just jailed them for thier time, lets say they got nailed with 20 hours, ok? now, they had a command to reduce thier sentence... this command, everytime it is entered, reduces thier sentence by one hour, and reduces thier bank account by a set ammount, lets say 500k. so this poor sap who got 20 hours, could get out right away, only after they threw 10 million away. you know im on to something here...
Beleives in capital punishment,
~Bruteus Lonewolf
weems (#27)
Thats the same thing as bribery.Bruteus wrote:ooo... I just had a smashing idea...
what if we just jailed them for thier time, lets say they got nailed with 20 hours, ok? now, they had a command to reduce thier sentence... this command, everytime it is entered, reduces thier sentence by one hour, and reduces thier bank account by a set ammount, lets say 500k. so this poor sap who got 20 hours, could get out right away, only after they threw 10 million away. you know im on to something here...
Beleives in capital punishment,
~Bruteus Lonewolf
Zidane (#28)
i think its a idea by let someone else do it (friends) this way if someone dont have the money or have friends to bail, then they learn a lesson maybe
Dunadan (#29)
Bail systems were tried when the JC was relatively new, it didn't work at all, and that's the reason we don't do bail today. Best way to teach people the lesson is to have them sit in jail and not be able to get out without doing their time.
weems (#30)
Or to implement a true PvP system like the olden days.Dunadan wrote:Bail systems were tried when the JC was relatively new, it didn't work at all, and that's the reason we don't do bail today. Best way to teach people the lesson is to have them sit in jail and not be able to get out without doing their time.
Isabelle (#31)
this system we have was originally designed to allow players to resolve their disputes by themselves.
i am willing to entertain the idea of players receiving little if any sentences for any crimes which are justified.
But you will notice, nearly every player who is jailed, is jailed for reasons such as "well i was bored, so that's why i killed those people"
I have absolutely no respect for those actions.
And then you get into murky areas like "well, he said i was dumb, so i killed him" A pretty stupid reason in my books, the player might think they were justified, but i mean, come on, how thin skinned is that?
Allowing pvp across the board without penalty can't work, because idiots make peoples life miserable.
Adding in the old pvp code that helped protect people would be a good step, but until the code changes, we pretty much have to remain this way.
i am willing to entertain the idea of players receiving little if any sentences for any crimes which are justified.
But you will notice, nearly every player who is jailed, is jailed for reasons such as "well i was bored, so that's why i killed those people"
I have absolutely no respect for those actions.
And then you get into murky areas like "well, he said i was dumb, so i killed him" A pretty stupid reason in my books, the player might think they were justified, but i mean, come on, how thin skinned is that?
Allowing pvp across the board without penalty can't work, because idiots make peoples life miserable.
Adding in the old pvp code that helped protect people would be a good step, but until the code changes, we pretty much have to remain this way.
Zidane (#32)
Just an idea. Why not put low level player not to be able to deleted (same as know) and have avatar have a different type of bail, like random item purge maybe 2 items Plus 100k from a friend that cares (not a caretaker)
Gilgolad (#33)
Highly justified murder is like when you were attacked by someone who thought they could kill you and instead you kill them, correct? So why would that person even have to be jailed if it was self defense?Isabelle wrote:i am willing to entertain the idea of players receiving little if any sentences for any crimes which are justified..
Dunadan (#34)
You wouldn't be reported if you were attacked first, you could still kill the person and not have to worry about it. If by some bug or something you are reported then yes you'd get highly justified, if any jail time at all.
Kiasyn (#35)
Actually if they attack you and you kill them they can report you...
Isabelle (#36)
any person who was not the aggressor would simply be pardoned.
if you are attacked by someone, and you manage to kill them in the same fight, the system isnt supposed to allow you to be reported for any crime, if it happens, it's up to the players to tell me that, at which time i will give the player a full pardon.
assuming the player asks me kindly that is
if you are attacked by someone, and you manage to kill them in the same fight, the system isnt supposed to allow you to be reported for any crime, if it happens, it's up to the players to tell me that, at which time i will give the player a full pardon.
assuming the player asks me kindly that is
Zidane (#37)
i agree with this and i think we should have a self-defense issueKiasyn wrote:Actually if they attack you and you kill them they can report you...
lingolas (#38)
I didnt read all the replies to this topic so excuse me if i say something that has already been said.
The justice council should be all about RP and it is still possible.
Here are some ideas:
1. Justice Counsils should have the ability to teleport to all criminals.
2. Justice counsils must subdue the criminal before the criminal can be shackled
4. JC should have special tools or spells to combat criminals
e.g. teleportation curse: stop teleportation
e.g. Stop pillar access: criminals can not use pillars
e.g. item: Cloak of Justice: Justice becomes completely invisible
3. Everytime the criminal KILL a JC that criminal gets additional penalty
4. Immortals can not interfere
5. once the criminal is captured that criminal has the option to bribe or bail. There should be a command for both of these options. bail price depends on the crime, character level, wealth... bribe money is completely up to the JC and the criminal. However, there's a trick with bribing. Everytime a JC accept a bribe, there's a 25% chance of it being recorded and sent to other JCs including Immortals. The JC who is caught will accepting bribes will become a criminal. lose all JC privilages. Will pay heavy penalty for corruption. At the same time the criminal who did the bribing gets even a heavier penalty and/or greater bail.
6. Should the JC get lucky and fall into the other 75% chance, he/she will get away rich.
7. There should be different ranks among JC. Higher ranks can out rule lower ranks.
8. Immortals are at the highest ranks but rare interfer.
9. JC do not deal with non "RP crimes" eg. hacking, password hackers...Immortals deal with these people.
I like this system because it mimmics the legal system in reality. It is good for RP. It allows room for "RP corruption" which further enhances the game play and the dynamic characteristic of every players on the mud. I'm sure there are flaws in this system as well as all other systems. If you see one, please point it out and so we can discuss it.
Lingolas
The justice council should be all about RP and it is still possible.
Here are some ideas:
1. Justice Counsils should have the ability to teleport to all criminals.
2. Justice counsils must subdue the criminal before the criminal can be shackled
4. JC should have special tools or spells to combat criminals
e.g. teleportation curse: stop teleportation
e.g. Stop pillar access: criminals can not use pillars
e.g. item: Cloak of Justice: Justice becomes completely invisible
3. Everytime the criminal KILL a JC that criminal gets additional penalty
4. Immortals can not interfere
5. once the criminal is captured that criminal has the option to bribe or bail. There should be a command for both of these options. bail price depends on the crime, character level, wealth... bribe money is completely up to the JC and the criminal. However, there's a trick with bribing. Everytime a JC accept a bribe, there's a 25% chance of it being recorded and sent to other JCs including Immortals. The JC who is caught will accepting bribes will become a criminal. lose all JC privilages. Will pay heavy penalty for corruption. At the same time the criminal who did the bribing gets even a heavier penalty and/or greater bail.
6. Should the JC get lucky and fall into the other 75% chance, he/she will get away rich.
7. There should be different ranks among JC. Higher ranks can out rule lower ranks.
8. Immortals are at the highest ranks but rare interfer.
9. JC do not deal with non "RP crimes" eg. hacking, password hackers...Immortals deal with these people.
I like this system because it mimmics the legal system in reality. It is good for RP. It allows room for "RP corruption" which further enhances the game play and the dynamic characteristic of every players on the mud. I'm sure there are flaws in this system as well as all other systems. If you see one, please point it out and so we can discuss it.
Lingolas
Zidane (#39)
i agreelingolas wrote:I didnt read all the replies to this topic so excuse me if i say something that has already been said.
The justice council should be all about RP and it is still possible.
Here are some ideas:
1. Justice Counsils should have the ability to teleport to all criminals.
2. Justice counsils must subdue the criminal before the criminal can be shackled
4. JC should have special tools or spells to combat criminals
e.g. teleportation curse: stop teleportation
e.g. Stop pillar access: criminals can not use pillars
e.g. item: Cloak of Justice: Justice becomes completely invisible
3. Everytime the criminal KILL a JC that criminal gets additional penalty
4. Immortals can not interfere
5. once the criminal is captured that criminal has the option to bribe or bail. There should be a command for both of these options. bail price depends on the crime, character level, wealth... bribe money is completely up to the JC and the criminal. However, there's a trick with bribing. Everytime a JC accept a bribe, there's a 25% chance of it being recorded and sent to other JCs including Immortals. The JC who is caught will accepting bribes will become a criminal. lose all JC privilages. Will pay heavy penalty for corruption. At the same time the criminal who did the bribing gets even a heavier penalty and/or greater bail.
6. Should the JC get lucky and fall into the other 75% chance, he/she will get away rich.
7. There should be different ranks among JC. Higher ranks can out rule lower ranks.
8. Immortals are at the highest ranks but rare interfer.
9. JC do not deal with non "RP crimes" eg. hacking, password hackers...Immortals deal with these people.
I like this system because it mimmics the legal system in reality. It is good for RP. It allows room for "RP corruption" which further enhances the game play and the dynamic characteristic of every players on the mud. I'm sure there are flaws in this system as well as all other systems. If you see one, please point it out and so we can discuss it.
Lingolas
Quintos (#40)
Definately not. Perhaps the addition of sieging citadels that I suggested a while ago (and I believe is being mulled over or implemented) is being put in and that would be better for gameplay and rp. If a criminal is going to stay in his or her citadel indefinitely, let them.lingolas wrote:1. Justice Counsils should have the ability to teleport to all criminals.
This is a point that I agree on...if someone is unstoppable, the JC should not be able to jail him or her. If it takes a militia to take someone down, so be it.lingolas wrote:2. Justice counsils must subdue the criminal before the criminal can be shackled
While I do not support the second one, the first and third should be definately not be put in. If there is an RP explanation for the pillar one, I fully support it. I would give in to acceting the 'Cloak of Justice' if it had some limits... Worn on body (although I suppose about body would be acceptable... preferably on)... Not only usable by justices - if someone is gonna go toe-to-toe with a JG, kill him, and take his cloak, too bad for that JG because he's probably gonna be in some trouble.lingolas wrote:4. JC should have special tools or spells to combat criminals
e.g. teleportation curse: stop teleportation
e.g. Stop pillar access: criminals can not use pillars
e.g. item: Cloak of Justice: Justice becomes completely invisible
Resisting arrest...I believe this was a suggestion of mine in my JC idea post and I fully support it.lingolas wrote:3. Everytime the criminal KILL a JC that criminal gets additional penalty
Something else that I support, although it would be acceptable in some heinous crimes (only RP crime that would be justifiable to do this in retalliation to is the murder of real newbies by an unkillable criminal.lingolas wrote:4. Immortals can not interfere
I agree with this for the most part. Bail should definately be implemented, and so should bribery. I do not believe that bribery should necessarily be an offense that gets you removed 1/4 of the time, though. If you wish to take a bribe, so be it. I would also suggest some sort of check on JC abuse...every character above a certain level (since I am an elitest, I say e500, although lower would be acceptable, as long as it is not something easily abusable) that has logged in within the last week has citizen rights and the ability to vote on the expulsion of JGs to use as they see fit. If player cities and justice councils are added in, then remove the level req and instead give this right to all civil council members (or whatever ruling body there is).lingolas wrote:5. once the criminal is captured that criminal has the option to bribe or bail. There should be a command for both of these options. bail price depends on the crime, character level, wealth... bribe money is completely up to the JC and the criminal. However, there's a trick with bribing. Everytime a JC accept a bribe, there's a 25% chance of it being recorded and sent to other JCs including Immortals. The JC who is caught will accepting bribes will become a criminal. lose all JC privilages. Will pay heavy penalty for corruption. At the same time the criminal who did the bribing gets even a heavier penalty and/or greater bail.
Definitely. A good hierarchy is important...perhaps a high enough rank can call a referendum to remove another member, as an inside check.lingolas wrote:7. There should be different ranks among JC. Higher ranks can out rule lower ranks.
If they truly did not interfere oter than under extenuating circumstances, I would support this. If they are found to interfere too much, I call for immediate expulsion of that immortal from the JC. If it is a player city/nation justice council, remove them altogether.lingolas wrote:8. Immortals are at the highest ranks but rare interfer.
Of course.lingolas wrote:9. JC do not deal with non "RP crimes" eg. hacking, password hackers...Immortals deal with these people.
voska (#41)
we should make a poll out of this I support Ling 100%
I support Ling 100%
Isabelle (#42)
it won't serve a purpose, because some things simply will not work, or, i do not wish to happen.
i do not want JC members with the ability to 'goto' anywhere, especially a criminal.
i do not want administrators involved with the jc system, this is true, but for now, they need to be involved for reasons outside of normal criminal actions. such as when someone is caught botting, or cheating, or a criminal has found a way to exploit a game mechanic which prevents the players from jailing them, the council members have no ability to jail these people.
i do not want justice council members having any special skills, attack styles, nothing, the council is simply a 'position' or 'job' like a cop.
next, you want bribery in.. what happens when a law enforcement official is caught taking bribes? - they are removed from law enforcement, and jailed. bribes won't work.
you want bail in, ok, it's a consideration, but how much? Perhaps decided on by the JC member, but then who does the money go to? Perhaps you want it coded so that the mud takes ok, sounds fine, but you will need to spell out exactly how much it should be, and no, it would not be anything less than a million gold - ever.
Celeborn and I have always been interested in having a 'criminal element' in the world, BUT, when it has happened, it always ended up interfering with people who did not want to be a part of it. (It has always ended up with me saying to myself, ok, they crossed the line, and now it must stop)
So, to sum it up - i am receptive to changes with the system, but more clear ideas need to be decided upon.
i do not want JC members with the ability to 'goto' anywhere, especially a criminal.
i do not want administrators involved with the jc system, this is true, but for now, they need to be involved for reasons outside of normal criminal actions. such as when someone is caught botting, or cheating, or a criminal has found a way to exploit a game mechanic which prevents the players from jailing them, the council members have no ability to jail these people.
i do not want justice council members having any special skills, attack styles, nothing, the council is simply a 'position' or 'job' like a cop.
next, you want bribery in.. what happens when a law enforcement official is caught taking bribes? - they are removed from law enforcement, and jailed. bribes won't work.
you want bail in, ok, it's a consideration, but how much? Perhaps decided on by the JC member, but then who does the money go to? Perhaps you want it coded so that the mud takes ok, sounds fine, but you will need to spell out exactly how much it should be, and no, it would not be anything less than a million gold - ever.
Celeborn and I have always been interested in having a 'criminal element' in the world, BUT, when it has happened, it always ended up interfering with people who did not want to be a part of it. (It has always ended up with me saying to myself, ok, they crossed the line, and now it must stop)
So, to sum it up - i am receptive to changes with the system, but more clear ideas need to be decided upon.
Lhile (#43)
How about 1 mil per every 30 hours you want off your time?
voska (#44)
how bout 100k per hour.
that means justified or highly justified crimes ARE less than 1 million, but that shouldnt be a problem b/c they were justified. And crimes like unjustified murder equal up to 1.2 million, and crimes like cheating goes up to 90 million.
i think this would work pretty well
that means justified or highly justified crimes ARE less than 1 million, but that shouldnt be a problem b/c they were justified. And crimes like unjustified murder equal up to 1.2 million, and crimes like cheating goes up to 90 million.
i think this would work pretty well
voska (#45)
sorry, was wrong a bit on the sentences, heres something more accurate
1) unprovoked assault 12 hours = 1.2 mil
2) justified assault 6 hours = 600k
3) highly justified assault 3 hours = 300k
4) unprovoked murder 48 hours = 4.8 mil
5) justified murder 24 hours = 2.4 mil
6) highly justified murder 12 hours = 1.2 mil
7) pardoned free = free
botting 8 hours = 800k
9) cheating 96 hours = 9.6 mil
10) killstealing 2 hours = 200k
11) slight harassing 4 hours = 400k
12) harassing 8 hours = 800k
13) obscene harassing 32 hours = 3.2 mil
14) being a poopyhead 1000 hours = 100,000,000
15) being a pain in the ass 1000 hours = 100,000,000
with this system, severe crimes get their severe payment.
1) unprovoked assault 12 hours = 1.2 mil
2) justified assault 6 hours = 600k
3) highly justified assault 3 hours = 300k
4) unprovoked murder 48 hours = 4.8 mil
5) justified murder 24 hours = 2.4 mil
6) highly justified murder 12 hours = 1.2 mil
7) pardoned free = free
botting 8 hours = 800k9) cheating 96 hours = 9.6 mil
10) killstealing 2 hours = 200k
11) slight harassing 4 hours = 400k
12) harassing 8 hours = 800k
13) obscene harassing 32 hours = 3.2 mil
14) being a poopyhead 1000 hours = 100,000,000
15) being a pain in the ass 1000 hours = 100,000,000
with this system, severe crimes get their severe payment.
Kiasyn (#46)
I don't think any of these should have bail.voska wrote:
9) cheating 96 hours = 9.6 mil
10) killstealing 2 hours = 200k
11) slight harassing 4 hours = 400k
12) harassing 8 hours = 800k
13) obscene harassing 32 hours = 3.2 mil
14) being a poopyhead 1000 hours = 100,000,000
15) being a pain in the ass 1000 hours = 100,000,000
Gilgolad (#47)
Dude, cheating should be harsher, depending on what kind of cheating it is. (i.e. Chubbs)
And a list of punishments isn't quite enough, there should be a list of what classifies as each crime plus differing circumstances that could happen. In other words: A list that explains every kind of crime in detail+ Sentace reccomendations.
And a list of punishments isn't quite enough, there should be a list of what classifies as each crime plus differing circumstances that could happen. In other words: A list that explains every kind of crime in detail+ Sentace reccomendations.
Kiasyn (#48)
chubbs got banned for what he did.
Isabelle (#49)
1) cheating in this context include things like multiplaying, abusing a bug, etc (if it's minor) (if it's major - see #2)
2) cheating like the other thing you mentioned does not involve the justice council, it involves me. And like Kiasyn mentioned, that uses a different set of punishments
2) cheating like the other thing you mentioned does not involve the justice council, it involves me. And like Kiasyn mentioned, that uses a different set of punishments
Gilgolad (#50)
lol
ShanaArkai (#51)
what about justified murder of a permy, also somthing else i was thinking about was offline sentances, if a player wants to get out of jail for a long sentance, he or she could have their sentance tripled but can be served offline, and by offline i mean no playing on the account at all, so if i got 100 hours for somthing and didnt want to run the computer for 100 hours just to get out of jail i could, insted serve 300 hours offline.
Gilgolad (#52)
I like this idea. 300 hours is around a week and a half of staying off DL. Not bad actually. Instead of spending 4 days straight on DL. Either way it keeps law breakers out of our hair. In fact, the 300 hour offline sentace gets rid of em for even longer that just locking them into a cell, and prevents them from just leaving their computer running overnight.ShanaArkai wrote:what about justified murder of a permy, also somthing else i was thinking about was offline sentances, if a player wants to get out of jail for a long sentance, he or she could have their sentance tripled but can be served offline, and by offline i mean no playing on the account at all, so if i got 100 hours for somthing and didnt want to run the computer for 100 hours just to get out of jail i could, insted serve 300 hours offline.
lingolas (#53)
I think what really deter unwanted crime is to take away their possessions. A high level well established player with lots of valueble equ will definitely stay in line because they have the most to lose. Some items in the game takes more than 300 hrs to obtain. Some takes months if not years.
Quintos (#54)
While this may deter the 1% of the MUD that runs around with equipment that takes more than 5 minutes to acquire, it's not gonna do much for the rest of them. A high level character really doesn't need great equipment to kill most people on the game. If was planning to go into illegal killing full time, however, I'd fully support this.lingolas wrote:I think what really deter unwanted crime is to take away their possessions. A high level well established player with lots of valueble equ will definitely stay in line because they have the most to lose. Some items in the game takes more than 300 hrs to obtain. Some takes months if not years.
