I'm almost done with the general Economy changes, and now its time for me to get to work on crafts. Since I'm going to work on crafts anyway, I decided to include some ideas to un-fuzzyfy things.
I'm very interested in your opinions and ideas. I especially want to hear from crafters. Need your help in figuring out the weak points in this design.
I just want to repeat, this is draft-draft-draft. Trying to get you guys involved as early in the process as possible, so just quote this bit to anyone who starts to rant.
oh, and sorry for the long and possibly unstructured text. If you have any questions, just ask.
CODE · MUD Output
ON CRAFTS, GENERAL:
On learning/unlearning crafts:
- You learn any craft for a few copper from a NPC craftsman.
- You learn a specialisation for one Mitril coin from a craftsman.
Each specialisation you learn after that costs two Mitril coins
and so on.
- You learn a mastery for five Adamantium coins from a craftsman.
Each mastery you learn after that costs ten adamantium coins and
so on.
- You can unlearn your specialisation, causing you to loose both your
specialisation and your mastery. You can also unlearn your mastery.
Note that this doesn't reset the mastery and specialisation skill
buy cost.
- PRE-PATCH crafters instantly gain their specialisations and masteries
based on their percentage. A 100% percentage currently trades in for
level e300 in your chosen craft.
On crafting levels:
- All crafts will work with levels.
- Like normal levels crafting levels will be advertised on your score/whois.
So you could be a Level 20 wizard/20 blacksmith, a level 5 rogue/35
weaponsmith, or an e10 swashbuckler/e 50 swordmaster.
- You level a craft by using it. :P
On crafting costs:
- All crafting items require half the objects normal price in coins.
- The rest is supplied by resources, parts, and reagents.
Differences with pre-patch:
- All crafted items bind-on-wear
- Anything you can craft, you can craft without failing.
CREATION CRAFTS:
- Crafting allows:
- A level in your craft.
- Crafting ITEMS up to uncommon quality.
- Crafting ITEMS up to your craft level.
- selection of 1 Specialisation (at craft level 30)
- Reverse engineer ITEMS up to common quality into a blueprint. (see below)
- Refactoring ITEMS up to common quality. (see below)
- Stripping ITEMS up to common quality with more success. (see below)
- Specialisation allows:
- Crafting a SUBSET OF ITEMS up to rare quality.
- Crafting a SUBSET OF ITEMS up to your craft level.
- selection of 1 Mastery (at craft level e1).
- Reverse engineer SUBSET OF ITEMS up to uncommon quality into a blueprint. (see below)
- Refactoring SUBSET OF ITEMS up to rare quality. (see below)
- Stripping SUBSET OF ITEMS up to rare quality with more success. (see below)
- Mastery allows:
- Crafting a SPECIFIC ITEM TYPE up to artifact quality.
- Crafting a SPECIFIC ITEM TYPE up to your craft level.
- Reverse engineer SPECIFIC ITEM TYPE up to rare quality into a blueprint.(see below)
- Refactoring SPECIFIC ITEM TYPE up to artifact quality. (see below)
- Stripping SPECIFIC ITEM TYPE up to artifat quality with more success. (see below)
can craft can craft
Craft Rank Example with common parts With rare parts
:::::::::::: ::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::
Common All metal up to Common up to Uncommon
Specialised Weapons up to Uncommon up to Rare
Mastery Swords up to Rare up to Artifact
On item Stripping:
- Item stripping gives you a SMALL chance of retreiving a re-usable part of an item.
- You will only be successful at stripping those parts relevant for your crafts.
So someone without enchanting wont be extracting any enchanting tokens, likewise,
someone without mining wont be restoring any ingots.
- Your success is defined by your combined crafts. For example, A miner+swordmaster
will have a higher success rate at retrieving ingots from swords than shields.
On item Refactoring:
- Improves one item by upgrading its material up to to one category better.
- Refactoring costs half the items value in coins, and 1.5 times its crafting
resources.
On crafting blueprints / reverse engineering:
- For all your creation crafts you need blueprints.
- Blueprints do not wear out.
- Blueprints exist for all items in the game.
- Shops bear blueprints.
- Monsters pop blueprints.
- Quests bestow blueprints.
- Crafters can reverse engineer non-crafted-items into blueprints.
- Blueprints are stored in a blueprints book on your waist
- Blueprints bind-on-wear (when placed in blueprints book)
- Reverse-engineered blueprints are bind-on-touch
- Quest rewards CANNOT be blueprinted.
On sharpening
- Sharpening becomes part of the stonecarving skill. You will be able to
craft weighstones and grindingstones which players can use to sharpen
their items.
- Weighstones and grindingstones can be used on weapons of their relative
level. (So e10 weighstone can be used on lvl 1-e10 weapons).
HARVESTING CRAFTS: (Mining, Woodcutting, Salvaging, Fishing, Skinning, Foraging)
- Harvesting allows:
- A level in your harvest craft, which defines gather speed.
- Low quality harvesting of BASE RESOURCES.
- selection of 1 Specialisation (at harvesting craft level 30)
- Stripping items of BASE RESOURCES with more success.
- 1/1 resource return when processing.
- Specialisation allows:
- Gaining access to AN EXTENDED SUBSET OF RESOURCES.
- Mastery skill level of this specialisation (at craft level e1).
- Stripping items of AN EXTENDED SUBSET OF RESOURCES with more success.
- 2/1 resource return when processing.
- Mastery allows:
- Gaining access to A SPECIFIC RESOURCE.
- Stripping items of A SPECIFIC RESOURCE with more success.
- 3/1 resource return when processing.
For example, take Teluth, a master in meteorite mining.
His 'Mining' base craft allows access to a small number of mining materials,
like iron, copper and carnalian.
His specialisation in ore mining allows access to silver, gold, and mitril.
His Mastery in ore mining allows access to meteorite.
On Fishing:
- I see no need to change this, so other than remapping the craft percentages
to levels it will probably function exactly the same.
On Foraging:
- What an absolutely weird craft. Specialising in worm foraging. @_@ What
was I thinking.
On Skining/Salvaging:
- Raw Bones and Leather will probably be categorised so they scale properly
with metal alternatives.
On Cloth:
- More Cloth variants will be made available to scale properly with cloth
alternatives.
ENCHANTING:
Enchanting cost:
- Enchanting requires 10% the objects normal price in coins.
- The rest is supplied by parts and reagents.
On enchantments:
- Enchantments are used by an enchanter to enchant an item.
- Enchantments can contain more than one effect:
(Example Level 1 Enchantment: 'Power of the Orkieporkie', +2 STR, +5 HP, -50 MANA)
- Most enchantments are wear-loc specific.
- Enchantments do not wear out.
- Shops bear enchantments.
- Monsters pop enchantments.
- Quests bestow enchantments.
- Enchantments are stored in a codex on your waist.
On item enchant space:
- Items are limited in their number of enchantments allowed.
(remember, each enchantment may contain more than 1 effect)
- Common, Uncommon items allow 2 enchantments
- Rare, Extremely rare items allow 3 enchantments.
- Artifact items allow 4 enchantments.
- Item enchantments can be replaced.
- The enchantment must be equal or lower level than the object
being enchanted.
- Enchanting allows:
- A level in enchantment.
- Using low level enchantments up to your craft level.
- Enchanting ITEMS up to your craft level.
- selection of 1 Specialisation (at enchant level 30)
- Stripping ITEMS with more success.
- Specialisation allows:
- Enchanting a SUBSET OF ITEMS up to your craft level.
- Using strong enchantments up to your craft level on a SUBSET OF ITEMS.
- selection of 1 Mastery (at craft level e1).
- Stripping SUBSET OF ITEMS with more success.
- Mastery allows:
- Crafting a SPECIFIC ITEM TYPE up to your craft level.
- Using powerful enchantments up to your craft level on a SPECIFIC ITEM TYPE.
- Stripping SPECIFIC ITEM TYPE with more success.
BUT
If this all comes in the form of a patch then NO. Why? because the game is still screwy from the last patch, we still get booted 3 times a day for no reason. So i recommend fixing EVERYTHING before moveing on to the next patch.
Then when this patch comes in sit around and watch out for advese side effects so you can quickly fix them.
Gilgolad wrote:
I love alot of these ideas.
BUT
If this all comes in the form of a patch then NO. Why? because the game is still screwy from the last patch, we still get booted 3 times a day for no reason. So i recommend fixing EVERYTHING before moveing on to the next patch.
Then when this patch comes in sit around and watch out for advese side effects so you can quickly fix them.
Pretty much the only reason that the crashes are still occuring is because of 1 single bug, which from the length of time it's been unfixed, must be hard to pinpoint, that bug is when players leave citadels using the 'leave' command, the mud sometimes crashes..so, all we have to do is stop using that command until we are -told- that it has been fixed.
First up: Blueprints. This is a tricky one, and I am somewhat for it, and somewhat against it. Reason being, its very cool, and I like the idea of being able to figure out how to make any item I come across, and then producing them if I feel like it.
What I don't like is the bottlenecks. The bottlenecks being quests and mosnsters. Once the patch comes, there will be an explosion of common blueprints spread around as people find simple ones, and reverse engineer the older items that they no longer use. Any blueprint that becomes known will quickly spread through the players, as one person finds it, makes it, sells it, and then the people who buy it make it and sell it.
It reminds me of the old pet breeding system, actually. Since they never lost their ability to breed, anybody could make infinite quantities of any pet, and whoever they gave the eggs to could also make infinite quantities of the same pet. It also makes quest reward blueprints lame because they can be shared easily with everybody by making copies.
This isn't all bad for the more common items, but I suggest you make Extremely Rare items and above impossible to reverse engineer. You may have already intended this, who knows. Just thought I would add my 2 cents on blueprints.
There was something else I was going to mention...But I can't remember what it was...
OH RIGHT. What happened to processing? You seemed to have bunched it up with harvesting? Will they stay seperate? Or not?
BUT
If this all comes in the form of a patch then NO. Why? because the game is still screwy from the last patch, we still get booted 3 times a day for no reason. So i recommend fixing EVERYTHING before moveing on to the next patch.
Then when this patch comes in sit around and watch out for advese side effects so you can quickly fix them.
Fixes for those crash issues are in the upcoming patch. I just cant stick it in yet because its half-finished.
i 'think' that in order for you to craft the item, you require the blueprint in your pouch. So sure you could possibly give it away, but then you wouldnt be able to craft.
I'm pretty sure that's Celeborns plan
But then I make said item, give it to a friend, and they reverse engineer it. Bam, they have their own set of blueprints.
And even if everyone had the formula, they still require the components to make the item. And it might not necessarily be just x mitrill to make a mitrill bracer, it might also be a rare mineral from a mitrill golem, and maybe a tailfeather from a phoenix or something
Even so, I think that might be a mistake, especially where quest rewards are concerned. I understand the sentiment in saying that the item can easily be worth so much that it would induce players to shudder just thinking of reverse engineering them.
Heres a way to get you to see what I mean...A while ago you mentioned that systems should be prepared so that if the worst happens (some horrible abuse bug) the entire system doesn't /completly/ collapse. Not being able to reverse engineer extremely rare and artifact items could prevent a problem in THAT sense as well.
I just think that any item powerful enough to warrant the title 'artifact' should be sufficiently crazy in its magical powers that reverse engineering it would be impossible. I think uber rare mobile drops and crazy quests only might be a better idea.
Yup, i'll agree with you on that, only allow reverse engineering for the common items would be the fairest.
I think celeborn is not wanting it to be like too much of a shock to crafters, which is why he mentioned reverse engineering, but yeah, it will be counterproductive for some items.
First up: Blueprints. This is a tricky one, and I am somewhat for it, and somewhat against it. Reason being, its very cool, and I like the idea of being able to figure out how to make any item I come across, and then producing them if I feel like it.
What I don't like is the bottlenecks. The bottlenecks being quests and mosnsters. Once the patch comes, there will be an explosion of common blueprints spread around as people find simple ones, and reverse engineer the older items that they no longer use. Any blueprint that becomes known will quickly spread through the players, as one person finds it, makes it, sells it, and then the people who buy it make it and sell it.
As the plans are now, there's a discrepancy between what you can craft and what you can reverse engineer. Common crafters can craft uncommon but only reverse-engineer common gear, Specialised crafters can craft rare but only reverse engineer uncommon, and mastery crafters can craft artifact but only reverse engineer rare items.
My plan was to make blueprints for personal use, so reverse engineered blueprints are bind-on-touch, and item-pop blueprints bind-on-wear.
I see what you are saying. I'll adjust the plans to only allow players to only reverse engineer non-crafted gear. I want players to 'go out there' to become better at crafting.
weems wrote:
It reminds me of the old pet breeding system, actually. Since they never lost their ability to breed, anybody could make infinite quantities of any pet, and whoever they gave the eggs to could also make infinite quantities of the same pet. It also makes quest reward blueprints lame because they can be shared easily with everybody by making copies.
I've been pondering pet-cloning issues. *ponder*
weems wrote:
What happened to processing? You seemed to have bunched it up with harvesting? Will they stay seperate? Or not?
I'm not certain yet. I'm leaning towards combining it with the harvest craft (as in, mining allows smelting).
I'm not certain yet. I'm leaning towards combining it with the harvest craft (as in, mining allows smelting).
Sounds like it would make the conversion a NIGHTMARE. Would processing grant them an automatic skill level in crafting in the new system? Would characters who had both crafting and processing go beyond e300?
You could have it offer them bonus resources maybe, depending on how far adepted they are.
IE, 100% processing in Mitrill, gives them 500 mitrill ore when the patch comes in...Or something
As for salvage / process / merging crafts, what if salvage becomes like an automatic skill, which cannot raise. So ok, a dead corpse on ground, any player may 'salvage' the corpse and get x salvage from it. Period, random everytime, from 0 to 3 items each time.
Combining crafts, i like it, metal workers can mine, or smelt, wood workers can cut trees, chop lumber, and get X pieces of wood, always random, no skill check. (0 to x resources each time)
I'm not certain yet. I'm leaning towards combining it with the harvest craft (as in, mining allows smelting).
Sounds like it would make the conversion a NIGHTMARE. Would processing grant them an automatic skill level in crafting in the new system? Would characters who had both crafting and processing go beyond e300?
You could have it offer them bonus resources maybe, depending on how far adepted they are.
IE, 100% processing in Mitrill, gives them 500 mitrill ore when the patch comes in...Or something
I have no statistics of how much effort is needed to raise processing for Mitrill. Can you give me an indication how much mitrill it takes to get 100.00% skill in processing, and what the gain is opposed to 0% processing?
Since crafts become level based, I can easily bestow a bonus to a players mining level based on processing skill. I think i'll wait until I get some more feedback from the other forum crafters before I decide.
Oh and the gains...For 100% mitrill processing, you get about 1.8 ingots per ore...A bronze processor gets about 1.2 - 1.3, and a 'tertiary' (non metal) processor gets 1 for 1.
I am a crafter but I hesitate to offer an opinion or ideas at this time. I am kinda reacting ... well you have heard the saying "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" and I fear I am that old dog heh. What I have read looks amazing and yet totally confusing for me.
Anyway I do have a concern that maybe when it has been answered I will relax and try to understand better. I, as many crafters have, worked hard to adept jewellery crafting. Long hours of mining in the old mining system when gems and ore was not so easy to come by. Will I be able to automatically keep crafting my rings or will I need to find blue prints and such to craft the things I am already 100% at?
Another question, with the changes will anybody with enough money be able to master all the crafts they wish and can pay for on one character? I certainly hope I am not understanding that right. Thanks for your patience answering my questions in advance.
Isabelle, about the pets issue you brought up. Unless things have changed the only way to level a pet is on a similar leveled player. If said player is 1/1 the pet will quickly gain exp faster and by the time the player is lev about 45/45 the pet will be lev 50. I think it is a good idea that the pet must be within 5-10 levels of the player though in order to be commanded to fight so lev 1 players will stop using lev 50 pets to tank.
Initially upon entering the game, it will be as though you have lost everything.. however, once you get the blueprint for say jewellery (bindis), you will immediately have 100 percent in it /and/ will never fail an attempt to create said item.
So it might be scarey at first, but you will then find yourself doing better than with the current system.
i'm not sure if celeborn has decided upon a reimbursement policy or not, like if you get a blueprint automatically if you already have 100 percent in a craft. Chances are good this won't happen, but we do have a few ideas we have kicked around, and we would prefer to have most people in the same category when it comes in.
But, it's all up in the air atm, as always, your ideas are welcomed
if you are under the pets level, you cannot control it, other than stable it.
multiclass characters abuse high level pets for levelling purposes
Ok, two things here:
1) if pets can only be controlled by same or higher level chars, then they need to not gain more exp than the player. My pet is 2 levels above me constantly, because ive trained with it since both of us were level one. so, pet exp gain must be made equal to the chars.
2) All of this blueprint talk is good, but, does the whole craft switch mean we all have to start over? after i finally got my crafting just the way i want it?????? #^$&^^%^@#!^#@!!! NO!!!! oh well, in that case i'll wait to finish my enchanting. Does all the new enchanting rules mean that all our old gear will be destroyed too? funk it, i would like to keep my old stuff, i worked hard to get it all. And we'll have to pay to craft stuff now? that doesnt make sense, makeing your own gear means you are self sufficient, on the grounds that you want to make stuff for free right???? i'll agree on paying gold or exp to enchant stuff though, that'll keep uberness down.
PS, read the thing i wrote in the juices effects changeing topic, and read my request regarding juices, maybe you can slip that in the patch as well if you like the idea.
With all due respect, absolute binding of a crafted item seems to be a very bad idea. Lets look at this basic concept a little.
Billy Bob asks me to make him a blue diamond ring for 15 mitrill coins.
I create the ring and show it to Billy Bob.
Billy Bob instantly wears then removes the ring. He then tells me he will only pay 10 mitrill coins for it.
You see what I mean? Accidental or intentional destruction of items could happen very easily. Especially if you consider the wear 5.sword code. Its very possible to accidently wear an item, making it impossible to sell. However I do have a solution that should be moderately agreable to all concerned.
Why not make bindings have timers instead of being defacto perment? The cheaper the item, the less time the item has to sit around unworn to lose its binding. The more valueable the item, the longer a binding sticks to an item. Quest items would retain the ability to be 100% perment.
Such temporary bindings could easily be scaled to a reasonable ammount of time and based on some kind of curve for item level. While I honestly outright hate the fact that I couldn't "Throw my friend one of my swords" to help him save himself, it would however be better then just submitting to permentally bound items.
Heck, I would even perfer items having built in "wear and tear" timers that slowly cause them to wither away with the items age. Code could be added to repair them, but still slowly the item would become less useful then it was when brand new. Lets say brand new a sword had a 150avg dmg. After about 12 refinishings of the edge, it now maxes at a 120 avg dmg......
Anyway, anything would be better then outright perment binding.... There has to be a middle ground.
I am a crafter but I hesitate to offer an opinion or ideas at this time. I am kinda reacting ... well you have heard the saying "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" and I fear I am that old dog heh. What I have read looks amazing and yet totally confusing for me.
Anyway I do have a concern that maybe when it has been answered I will relax and try to understand better. I, as many crafters have, worked hard to adept jewellery crafting. Long hours of mining in the old mining system when gems and ore was not so easy to come by. Will I be able to automatically keep crafting my rings or will I need to find blue prints and such to craft the things I am already 100% at?
I intend to reimburse all crafters with a pre-filled blueprints book, since they already put the effort in. You'll probably have a few fun new ones to craft as well.
Sardonyx wrote:
Another question, with the changes will anybody with enough money be able to master all the crafts they wish and can pay for on one character? I certainly hope I am not understanding that right. Thanks for your patience answering my questions in advance.
You can only have ONE specialisation and ONE mastery per craft, so no. And effort gets you the levels in your crafts, not money. The money part is to get that extra bit of knowledge needed to become specialised or mastery.
With all due respect, absolute binding of a crafted item seems to be a very bad idea. Lets look at this basic concept a little.
Billy Bob asks me to make him a blue diamond ring for 15 mitrill coins.
I create the ring and show it to Billy Bob.
Billy Bob instantly wears then removes the ring. He then tells me he will only pay 10 mitrill coins for it.
You see what I mean? Accidental or intentional destruction of items could happen very easily. Especially if you consider the wear 5.sword code. Its very possible to accidently wear an item, making it impossible to sell. However I do have a solution that should be moderately agreable to all concerned.
Why not make bindings have timers instead of being defacto perment? The cheaper the item, the less time the item has to sit around unworn to lose its binding. The more valueable the item, the longer a binding sticks to an item. Quest items would retain the ability to be 100% perment.
Such temporary bindings could easily be scaled to a reasonable ammount of time and based on some kind of curve for item level. While I honestly outright hate the fact that I couldn't "Throw my friend one of my swords" to help him save himself, it would however be better then just submitting to permentally bound items.
Heck, I would even perfer items having built in "wear and tear" timers that slowly cause them to wither away with the items age. Code could be added to repair them, but still slowly the item would become less useful then it was when brand new. Lets say brand new a sword had a 150avg dmg. After about 12 refinishings of the edge, it now maxes at a 120 avg dmg......
Anyway, anything would be better then outright perment binding.... There has to be a middle ground.
2) All of this blueprint talk is good, but, does the whole craft switch mean we all have to start over?
No. You percentage skill is converted to a level as craftsman (if you have 100% in forging swords it will convert you to a e350-e400 swordsmaster). Also you will receive a good set of blueprints for your learned crafts.
Gilgolad wrote:
Does all the new enchanting rules mean that all our old gear will be destroyed too?
No, old gear will not be destroyed.
Gilgolad wrote:
And we'll have to pay to craft stuff now? that doesnt make sense, makeing your own gear means you are self sufficient, on the grounds that you want to make stuff for free right????
IC: You pay for the extra resources. OOC, it prevents people from flooding the economy with items, and keeps the gain from crafting and selling to NPCs from going overboard. Remembers, your items (even crafted ones) will have considerable worth to NPC shops after this patch.
Gilgolad wrote:
PS, read the thing i wrote in the juices effects changeing topic, and read my request regarding juices, maybe you can slip that in the patch as well if you like the idea.
With all due respect, absolute binding of a crafted item seems to be a very bad idea. Lets look at this basic concept a little.
Billy Bob asks me to make him a blue diamond ring for 15 mitrill coins.
I create the ring and show it to Billy Bob.
Billy Bob instantly wears then removes the ring. He then tells me he will only pay 10 mitrill coins for it.
You see what I mean? Accidental or intentional destruction of items could happen very easily. Especially if you consider the wear 5.sword code. Its very possible to accidently wear an item, making it impossible to sell. However I do have a solution that should be moderately agreable to all concerned.
Why not make bindings have timers instead of being defacto perment? The cheaper the item, the less time the item has to sit around unworn to lose its binding. The more valueable the item, the longer a binding sticks to an item. Quest items would retain the ability to be 100% perment.
Vogar Eol wrote:
Such temporary bindings could easily be scaled to a reasonable ammount of time and based on some kind of curve for item level. While I honestly outright hate the fact that I couldn't "Throw my friend one of my swords" to help him save himself, it would however be better then just submitting to permentally bound items.
Heck, I would even perfer items having built in "wear and tear" timers that slowly cause them to wither away with the items age. Code could be added to repair them, but still slowly the item would become less useful then it was when brand new. Lets say brand new a sword had a 150avg dmg. After about 12 refinishings of the edge, it now maxes at a 120 avg dmg......
Anyway, anything would be better then outright perment binding.... There has to be a middle ground.
Nope, sorry, binding is an overal change and its going in like it is. For the 'but why' ive explained it extensively in another thread. If you wish to carry the binding discussion further please do it there.
After thinking about it, I'm going to have to disagree with people getting getting their processing skills converted into additional harvesting skills.
The reason being, because of the new mining patch, many people have gotten many valuable resources that they had no right in getting based on their harvesting skills. (IE zero percent jade miners mining hundreds of jades, zero percent meteorite miners mining hundreds of ore...etc). Because of this, it would allow people who simply exploited the new and (no offense intended cele) highly unbalanced mining system, to get skills in mining that they would otherwise have never gotten.
So I would say either leave it it's own skill, or have some other reimbursement.
Can we see some of these as well? Maybe that could do up to specialist level stuff?
I think i'll keep it a player thing. Enchanters, like any other crafter, worked hard for their crafts. Even specialist capped NPC enchanters would be ouchy.
I definetly think reimbursing people by giving them resources is a far better way to do it than skills. Its fair for one, going from 0 - 100, you inevitably ruin some resources. Not a whole lot, but some. You (celeborn) could probably very accuratly determine the average quantity of resources ruined going from 0% - 100% while using 1 resource at a time. Then simply give people back that quantity of resources that they had adepted in. Or less, if its less than 100%.
Everybody wins with this, and nobody gets unfair extra mining skills by abusing the new(er) mines.
I definetly think reimbursing people by giving them resources is a far better way to do it than skills. Its fair for one, going from 0 - 100, you inevitably ruin some resources. Not a whole lot, but some. You (celeborn) could probably very accuratly determine the average quantity of resources ruined going from 0% - 100% while using 1 resource at a time. Then simply give people back that quantity of resources that they had adepted in. Or less, if its less than 100%.
Everybody wins with this, and nobody gets unfair extra mining skills by abusing the new(er) mines.
Sounds like a perfect solution; it is fair to everyone involved and doesn't sound too hard to do.
I love the concept Celeborn. I did notice that you were unhappy with some aspects of the foraging skill.
On Foraging, perhaps it can be saved by replacing the odd items with useful items like spider silk and wild cotton and cotton from cottenwood trees in small amounts and for more areas, or
Trapping
- Fur
- Hide
- Bones
I agree with Weems on the number of attempts to reach 100%, Its at least in the ballpark. However I have most of my processing in scales. It took more time and effort to raise scales than it takes ore, plus salvaging is a slow skill to master also. The gain for scales is 1.5 per scale. As for compensating players, it would be very hard judge what is fair, but any compensation would be nice.
Giving skill levels for compensation would not work for my character. It would push him over 100% unless you spread it over every skill he has. I am sure there are others in the same boat. So a resource reward would be easier to do and fairer in the long run.
After some thought, I began to wonder about something.... how is glory going to be involved in the game?
From what you seemed to have come up with, enchant space doesn't seem to be a part of an item. Quality and level seem to determine the number of enchants the item will hold. I would assume since your counting enchants, "size" of enchants is not relevent. Am I correct?
If glory has no use in crafting, what then will it be used for? Will there be special item modifications that can be "bought" for glory? Will glory be removed from the game?
In short, I am interested in a more detail about how enchanting will work, and how glory will be involved.
Another thing about crafted items. Would it be possible to code that a maker's family name would be included when he works on an item? So it would say the crafter is "Vogar Eol" instead of "Vogar"?
Okay, was just reading over the new crafting system and well since I'm pretty much retired it doesn't effect me much. But it appears that the new crafting system is set up just like EVERQUEST. I have played Everquest and like their crafting system. However, maybe refining the system a bit more to fit the text based would be a greater idea then trying to make it more complicated. *shrug* honestly I don't care how the crafting system comes out but what about all the hours that people have already invest in crafting? Are they going to be compensated for their time and effort? Is anyone really going to want to spend that much time on the new system when there is a new mud coming out? Honestly, I would have a hard time putting all that time and effort into something that might be gone when the new mud arises. I'm just thinking of all the people who have crafting at 100% and have risen to extreme high levels. How is this new patch going to honestly affect their position in the game. Well just a thought, but it sounds like that the crafting system is being based on something that is already done. . .
Okay, was just reading over the new crafting system and well since I'm pretty much retired it doesn't effect me much. But it appears that the new crafting system is set up just like EVERQUEST.
Everquest II? I only played everquest I but I never noticed any crafts (got a bit sick of whacking animals up to high levels. Sort of like UO, which really didn't have a melee-point to it other than pvp ).
Anyway, what the system compares to doesn't matter that much. I am designing it for a text environment. I personally think it will be easyer and a lot less 'chore-like' to use.
Cassia wrote:
*shrug* honestly I don't care how the crafting system comes out but what about all the hours that people have already invest in crafting? Are they going to be compensated for their time and effort?
Yes. One, they can craft things based on their craft level, without having to retry. Two, their percentages are converted in such a way they can craft any levels they could before and a bit more, and three, they receive a full craft codex filled with recipies which replace their old options.
Notably the underdog crafters (statue, tool crafters) will be getting a broader range of things to craft.
Cassia wrote:
Is anyone really going to want to spend that much time on the new system when there is a new mud coming out?
As you might have noticed, i'm putting all my time in DL. I'm in a bit of an unstable RL work situation and feel its better to deliver small bits of code instead of coding on a huge project that might be destroyed if my work bubble bursts. Its still scheduled for 'better times' though
i can answer that, it is determined by the number of enchantments on the item, and the types of enchantments (+ special effects)
I believe he posted something regarding that in one of his first posts
But if he didnt, this is how it will be done
(i will be spending time fixing up items so that there wont be any obvious imbalances) (most areas i have spent time on in the last 4 weeks correcting level ranges, have also had their items tweaked)
i can answer that, it is determined by the number of enchantments on the item, and the types of enchantments (+ special effects)
I believe he posted something regarding that in one of his first posts
But if he didnt, this is how it will be done
(i will be spending time fixing up items so that there wont be any obvious imbalances) (most areas i have spent time on in the last 4 weeks correcting level ranges, have also had their items tweaked)
That doesnt answer my question in the least. In that context, what would determine the number of enchantments?! You see my question now? I want to know how the overall 'value' of a crafted item will be determined.
First, What about items for which there is no current crafting slot? For example, belts, a very common item yet there is not a crafting slot for items worn on the waist, or the face for that matter. How do we determine skill level in crafting these items?
Second, Let us say you have the blueprint for the sword Claymore level 6 but you are level 12, can you make a Claymore at level 12 or only at the level of the blueprint?
Third, If items can be made different levels than the blue print, should we impose limits as to how far from the blue print we can diverge in level requirements. Example: 5 time above and/or 0.5 times below listed level giving the above Claymore a range from level 30 to level 3.
What determines what class a crafted item is in, in terms of common, rare, extremely rare, artifact, etc?
Isabelle said
i can answer that, it is determined by the number of enchantments on the item, and the types of enchantments (+ special effects)
I believe he posted something regarding that in one of his first posts
But if he didnt, this is how it will be done
Weems said
That doesnt answer my question in the least. In that context, what would determine the number of enchantments?! You see my question now? I want to know how the overall 'value' of a crafted item will be determined.
Isabelle answered your first question the way it was asked, because I was going to ask the same question, and her response answered what I wanted to know. A common item has none or 1 minor enchantment as found and blue-printed. An uncommon item may have 1 to 3 enchantments. A rare have 2 to 6 and an artifact any amount, all depending on how powerful the enchantments are. I am not sure what you wish to know, but let me explain how I see this system working.
Celeborn said
On enchantments:
- Enchantments are used by an enchanter to enchant an item.
- Enchantments can contain more than one effect:
(Example Level 1 Enchantment: 'Power of the Orkieporkie', +2 STR, +5 HP, -50 MANA)
On item enchant space:
- Items are limited in their number of enchantments allowed.
(remember, each enchantment may contain more than 1 effect)
- Common, Uncommon items allow 2 enchantments
- Rare, Extremely rare items allow 3 enchantments.
- Artifact items allow 4 enchantments.
- Item enchantments can be replaced.
- The enchantment must be equal or lower level than the object
being enchanted.
Let’s make a common helmet, level 1, that has a minor enchantment like +5 hit points.
Because it is a crafted common item, it has 2 enchantment slots to be filled. Your common helmet is now much more useful when you add 2 first level 'Power of the Orkieporkie' enchantments . Look at Celeborn’s thread Economy Craft Changes – Some Illustrations and check out the flowcharts there. /t/611/ Hope this helped.
yup, Arureal is correct, it has to do with the number of enchantments
if you are talking about ingame items (non crafted) then see my response. If you are asking about crafted items, well, they won't be called artifact or rare, etc, they will simply be crafted.
Blueprints will be available with (sometimes) more than one enchantment on them, allowing you to enchant an item to hold X # of enchantments at once.
No. The question was not answered. I don't see it as "lets make a common helmet."
I want to know what it is in a crafted item that determines the number of enchantments it gets, or its value, or whatever. Is it the level? The material? The quality? (normal, high quality, or masterwork).
A combination of the three? Are some of those taken into account more than others?
I assume Celeborn has some sort of formula in the works, where it takes into account certain parts of the crafted item, and turns them into a numerical value. It then uses this numerical value to determine the 'rarity' of the item, and therefore how many enchants it can hold. Etc.
I just want to know what determines it, thats all.
If the question was answered in the thread already, it wouldn't have been asked.
Weems said
I want to know what it is in a crafted item that determines the number of enchantments it gets, or its value, or whatever. Is it the level? The material? The quality? (normal, high quality, or masterwork).
It is a pretty strait-forward system. All mob items will be given a class, common, uncommon, rare, etc, based on the number and power of the enchantments on the item AS FOUND. The class, common, uncommon, etc, determines the number of enchantment slots the item has WHEN CRAFTED. The LEVEL of the item determines how powerful of an enchantment can be put in the slots available. The material has the same effect as it would have if you re-forged a mob item, better DR, more damage, but there is no e-space for it to affect.
Let’s use Sidewinder Armlets and assume they are a rare item due to the number of enchantments the item has. You make a blueprint from one, now you can craft Sidewinder Armlets that have 3 enchantment slots. Now you salvage the enchantments from 3 other Sidewinder Armlets and place them into the one you made. Or you could use any enchantments that came from an item of the same or lower level. Making the Sidewinder Armlets out of mithrill instead of bronze will give it better damage reduction and make the item lighter. A simple yet elegant system that encourages crafting, exploring, and making use of the many mob items we have. I can not think of anything else to add, hope this explanation was of more use to you.
What determines what class a crafted item is in, in terms of common, rare, extremely rare, artifact, etc?
Just to clarify something, NPC items and Crafted items are the same thing. So the same classification rules apply.
Simplified, the system takes into account level, base material and its innate enchantments to determine its item class. Any additional enchantments or material upgrades do not increase item class, though they do affect its value.
Also, there are some exceptions. Some items will be classified by their rarity (think black pearls / white pearls). There's a whole bunch of items with their own custom classification rules.
First, What about items for which there is no current crafting slot? For example, belts, a very common item yet there is not a crafting slot for items worn on the waist, or the face for that matter. How do we determine skill level in crafting these items?
I am expanding all crafts to accomodate all possible recipies.
Arureal wrote:
Second, Let us say you have the blueprint for the sword Claymore level 6 but you are level 12, can you make a Claymore at level 12 or only at the level of the blueprint?
Since people can craft almost all NPC gear I was not planning on huge level deviances. (Do not want level 50 artifacts to suddenly be crafted towards level 25). There will be enough recipies to craft gear for anyone level 1 to level e5000. I am considering giving 'common' recipies a level range so all levels can be accomodated with crafted gear.
So I ask again, hah...What determines the value of a crafted item in the new system, and how many enchants it gets, or what its rarity will it be?
Item class: level vs base enchantments and material. (and a whole bunch of other factors).
How many enchants: based on item class
Rarity (Meaning pop-chance?): item class
Value: Mainly item class, material, enchantments, item type.
Oh! Oh! i have a question now too! *bounces up and down in his seat with his hand up*
All this talk of blueprints means we'll all be getting a blueprint book right? Just like the songbook for bards and spellbooks for prism toteing people. So as a new character, before you can start crafting, you have to buy a blueprint book.
Also, based on the previous question and answer, we'll be getting a blue print for EVERY little deviation? Like one print for a level 1 sword, now a new print for the same sword only level 2, ect. Thats going to be a thick book when we're finished, not to mention complicated to find the print your looking to make. Or perhaps each craft, lets say swords again, one print does level 1-10, the next does 11-20, the next does 21-30? would consolidate things a little and still would be fair for the crafter AND would not put too many uber items out there.
And finally, when can we expect the patch anyway? A week? a month? Just so i know ahead of time.....
Oh! Oh! i have a question now too! *bounces up and down in his seat with his hand up*
All this talk of blueprints means we'll all be getting a blueprint book right? Just like the songbook for bards and spellbooks for prism toteing people. So as a new character, before you can start crafting, you have to buy a blueprint book.
You get a blueprint book at creation.
Gilgolad wrote:
Also, based on the previous question and answer, we'll be getting a blue print for EVERY little deviation? Like one print for a level 1 sword, now a new print for the same sword only level 2, ect. Thats going to be a thick book when we're finished, not to mention complicated to find the print your looking to make. Or perhaps each craft, lets say swords again, one print does level 1-10, the next does 11-20, the next does 21-30? would consolidate things a little and still would be fair for the crafter AND would not put too many uber items out there.
Uncommon and above will be fixed to a specific level, the objects crafting level, which I do not think is such a big problem.
Common items would be good if I would allow a crafting range on them, yes. If I allow deviation, it would give a blueprint a range, 10 different blueprints of the same object is just silly
Quote:
And finally, when can we expect the patch anyway? A week? a month? Just so i know ahead of time.....
I will warn when the trial-week begins. I plan 'soon' but no definite dates yet.
I disagree. A single account can already make /TONS/ of things. Interacting with people is part of the game, and I prefer a craft system that at least encourages a LITTLE of it.
I LIKE how smithing is crowded, as smithing is definetly the best overall crafting group. It means you have to be wise in choosing your crafts, because you cant just adept everything.
If crafts are divided anymore (which I am against), you might as well just make one character able to craft everything. Its already dangerously close to that on an account level.
Since we have sockets in crafted equipment, why not make it possible to stick GEMS in there? DUH! I wonder why that was never alowed before. They can either add a couple hundred more E space or add an effect like a rune would, only on an equal or inferior scale.
Whaddaya think? Can't get that outta hand if the equipment only has 4 sockets maximum, and if the lesser gems don't add too much to the item. Only diamonds should really have a profound impact because they're relativly rare to begin with. Maybe even add a one gem limit per item.
player interaction is the main purpose, it's true for any mud, or mmorpg
however, that being said, there have been ideas tossed around that would merge crafts, like, if you are a blacksmith, you instantly have access to do anything which involves metal, be it mining, or making metal items.
and if you are a woodworker, you can chop wood, or make wooden items.
but, if such a system was in place, you would only be a 'woodworker' OR a 'blacksmith'
this is of course extreme, and will probably not be implemented in dark legacy to that degree
i think i've rambled a bit, so back to my original response, we don't want a player to be entirely self reliant, one problem with our system, is that players can place things in shops, and drop items on the ground to be picked up by their alternate characters, and this leads to the problem of players becoming recluse, and a breakdown of interaction.
The idea is for a player to play the game if they desire, and 'by themselves' theoretically become powerful. At the same time, they may also interact with other players, and become even stronger.
It leads to a friendly atmosphere, with a working synergy (the interaction of two or more forces so that their combined effect is greater than the sum of their individual effects)
(this either a) promotes player interaction, or b) promotes making an alternate character to do the work. Note that we do not want option B to be the choice, and we hope that players use option A instead)
Isabelle
Very true, player interaction is the main purpose of any mud, mmorg, and even games like D&D.
Now I have played D&D for far more years than I have been a mudder. So I tend to think of player interaction as a number of things. Grouping, especially to defeat a powerful foe, is important. Guilds are another prime source of interaction. Even chance meetings that develop into friends have happened to me often in my time here, and as I RP, that’s most of them. But not near the number of friends my daughter has that does not role-play. DL even has a marriage and engagement system, cool. Although my daughter tends to freak out when I meet someone she is engaged to. But then so have one or two of the guys I spoke with. Guess they never expected to meet her dad so soon! I could go on, but I won’t, suffice to say that DL provides a lot of interactions for players, more than many out there.
For me, crafting will always be a part of my interaction with other players. I feel that player interaction can only be encouraged, never enforced. The long time I spent as a DM probably accounts for this view, but I have also seen muds that have had problems from trying to enforce interaction too much. DL has a great many ways for players to interact, none of them forced on players, and crafting should be the same. Crafting should encourage interaction, not enforce it. The problem is that often can be a fine line that is hard to see before the deed is done.
If some players are using alts to carry the craft workload, they must feel they need to for some reason.
Lack of interaction with other players who could fill their needs is the most likely reason. Perhaps they can not find a crafter who will do the work, or at a price they can afford, we don’t know. How can we help if we don’t know the problem? A larger and growing player base is one thing that would address many of these troubles by adding crafters and buyers. Allowing one player to craft a greater number and variety of items would also address many of these troubles. If the craft system were to attract players and keep them, that would be the best of both.
Since we have sockets in crafted equipment, why not make it possible to stick GEMS in there? DUH! I wonder why that was never alowed before. They can either add a couple hundred more E space or add an effect like a rune would, only on an equal or inferior scale.
Whaddaya think? Can't get that outta hand if the equipment only has 4 sockets maximum, and if the lesser gems don't add too much to the item. Only diamonds should really have a profound impact because they're relativly rare to begin with. Maybe even add a one gem limit per item.
Just so you don't forget my last post
Oh, and i agree whith whatever it was that you 2 were saying, i think player diversity crafty thingy should stay codependant with the square root of a trigonometral witch hunt.
Crafting in its current form has caused a lot of players to make "Crafting Alts". Basically they try addept the most needed craft items between their chars.
Why do they do this? For one of two reason for the most part. First major reason is they can't afford to buy items. 100,000gp for an item? Hah, I can spend a week or two and addept that craft myself! The other reason is to try and sell the items to others who don't wish to, or have the time for crafting.
Either of these two groups both feel they trully need to addept as many crafts as possible. The first group, so they don't have to buy to many items they need. The second group feels the more items they can make, the more sales they will make.
Another group are those people that feel they can become "Uber" only if they have special gear. These people a little more rare then the other groups. These are often people who both craft, and are also on "High Epic". They perfer to make this gear themselves, so that no one knows their "Secrets". They feel they must become the best at making as many items as possible. Why? So they can have the best items! Items equal power, crafts equal items, more crafts equal more power...
Now what will happen when the new changes come in? The first two groups will have a major dent in their desire to craft items.
Why? The people wishing to save money by crafting gear will need to spend money to craft. They can't just invest time anymore. So do they invest a million becoming great at making swords? Or do they buy the 10,000 sword they need?
Now the people wishing to sell items to others will definately experience a lot more sales due to the decline of the previous group. However, they will be spending money to make money. They will no longer be making money from nothing, and hence some people might not find the profits high enough. Who can say for sure?
Now the last group, the uber crafters, will likely always be around. They will just grumble about prices, grumble if someone learns to craft better then them, and grumble if a starsign choice allows a crafting advantage. Why? Because in their mind they must be BOTH the most powerful and the best at crafting. Hence they feel its unfair to make a choice between a powerful starsign, or one that gives a crafting advantage. In the end they will likely have two powerful epic chars (a caster, and a melee) and a bunch of crafting alts. Is that any real big change from now? No, but it lets them complain, which makes them happy.
Then there are the recreational crafters. People that pride themselves with crafting for the sake of crafting. I put myself in this group. These people like to make, and become known for making items. Its a part of their story and their character. Do these people really care if they can only craft one item type per character? Not really, atleast not as much as the previous groups.
ANYWAY.....
Thats the veiw of one really old crafter on the whole crafting world, as it exists in Alora today.
You explained many of the points this old elf was thinking, but my age-addled brain could not find the words for. My first character was not called the Absent-Minded Elf for nothing. Thanks for the help and the insight.
I like to think of myself as what you called a recreational crafter. Guess it’s an RP thing.
But for right now I am going to go back over Celeborn’s posts on the new craft patch to get a better understanding of it before I post on this subject again. Got to keep that old elven brain ticking.
there is one point that should be made, there /will/ be ingame equipment which will be an alternative to craft gear.
sure, the stats wont be exactly like a craft item, but they will be better than you find now, there will be more diverse items to be found/bought, and they will be more readily available.
Well, the area items currently in the game aren't exactly bad right now. The main disadvantage is for melee characters. A melee char currently gets a greater boost from crafting then a caster.
Why? Because a casters effectiveness is mostly due to complexity, and skill of the player. Only things you need to do to raise complexity are to max Int and Wis, and level. You can easily max out Int and Wis with two craft items fairly early on. Then the caster can use all the great area items with their wonderful effects: Improved damage, longer duration, more experience, reduced mana, spell penetration, magic resistance, elemental resists.... etc...
A problem with the upcoming craft conversion process.
Some players will have the scores for 1 mastery and 2 specialization’s per craft.
I knew something was troubling me about the craft system in my last few posts, but I was having trouble putting my finger on it. I finally got it, what was bugging me my be a problem in the conversion of craft scores.
A couple of different scores were given on what a current score of 100% would convert into, so I did the math with all of them. Celeborn said that there will be allowed only 1 mastery and one specialization per craft, however not all scores will convert to this, some players scores will convert to a level where they have 2 specialization’s, I happen to be one of them. In fact, it is possible to have a craft score convert into as many as 1 mastery and 3 specialization’s, however the odds of someone having the narrow range of scores for this to happen is very small, so I don’t think we will run into any of those cases.
Now I understand that for reasons of game balance the number of masteries should be limited to prevent a huge number of very powerful items in the world, and I do not think that allowing 2 specialization’s in a craft will be a problem when it comes to this. Also allowing 2 specializations per craft is more realistic. It does not seem unreasonable for a master in a field to have 1 or 2 closely related items that they are specialized in.
This may also be of benefit to new players whom are just experimenting with the craft system. The friendlier the craft system is to new players, the better the odds they will stay, so long as it does not affect game balance adversely.
I do not think that having 2 specializations will adversely effect game balance. Not having 2 specializations will adversely affect players in my position, severely limiting the number and power of items compared to what they can craft now. The new system will already limit the power and level of items that can be crafted from the current system; more limits to this are not needed. My 100% in swords will not be equal to what I will be able to craft under the new system. Under the new system that 100% score will allow me to craft only up to epic 300 – 350 level swords, yet under the current system I have made masterwork swords of epic 600 – 650. I do not have a problem with this, as very powerful items should be limited, it is the lower levels of crafting that I am concerned with.
So instead of reading and posting, I guess I should be crafting and enchanting before my ability to make myself decent equipment is curtailed even farther.
That’s all for now, let me know if I am mistaken in any of this analysis.
Under the new system that 100% score will allow me to craft only up to epic 300 – 350 level swords, yet under the current system I have made masterwork swords of epic 600 – 650.
I made them for a present to one of Catra’s friends, I think it was Zidane, you can ask her to find out for sure who it was. They were epic level 614 at the time so I made it for their level. They freaked when I gave it to them, so I assume they still have it. Several players have said that it can not be done, I did not know that at the time, it took me almost 2 portals of ore to do it, and most of one night. I just assumed most players did not try long enough to get one, so I tried anyway.
Why, is that not supposed to happen? Perhaps it was a fluke, it was some time back, but you can check it out, like I said, I assume they still have it.
I wish I had never mentioned those blades, everyone latched onto that and ignored the rest of the post.
They were made about the time that Isabelle put that epic 1000 sword on the auction, then removed it.
I do not know if the code was disabled at the time, bug or what caused it. I do not craft epic level items most of the time, so I did not know I was not supposed to not be able to make it, and as much trouble as it was, I said I would never try again. Therefor I did not know that it says invalid level now. I can only judge by what has happened. It is not like there are any help files on the current craft system that tells you anything, and crafters sure don’t help others to learn crafting.
If I had known it was not supposed to happen, I would have reported it.
But that was not the point of my post.
The point was on how craft score will convert. So tell me ye all knowing crafters, how are these scores going to convert, and will I still be able to craft all that I can now.
Look at the scores, then multiply by 3.5 to too get the scores in the level based craft system.
You will see that a couple of my crafts will covert to 1 mastery and 2 specializations min score, as stated by Celeborn. This is the point I wanted to address.
The scores are scattered because I am just experimenting with crafts at this point, except for smithing.
If the new craft system discourages new players from experiment with crafting, it may also discourage them from the game.
We will soon have the third craft system since I started, before I can craft the equipment I want, it changes.
Mainly this is due to not getting to play often or for long periods, but it is still discouraging.
I would like to see the coming system to be well thought out to prevent the need for a number of changes after it comes in. I may not be right on my ideas, but at least I am trying to look at the new system, rather than just picking apart other posts without offering any relevant help on the subject.
Sorry for thing long post, but the short ones do not seem to work.
(When I refer to an item of any level, assume I mean masterwork)
Okay, first of all, I am positive that you are remembering wrong. e314, or e414 would be my guess of what you actually made. Currently only a very small handful of items have been made above e400, by any player. The ones that have been were incredible luck or have taken vast quantities of resources.
Crafting above e500 has never been possible. Even if it HAD been, you still wouldn't have been able to do it. e400+ already takes hundreds of thousands of ingots to make consistently. With the current scaling, I can safely say that e614 would take MILLIONS of ingots. Literally. Thats not an exaggeration.
Celeborn is proposing a conversion where 100% translates into about e350, give or take tweaking on his end. That means that you will be able to CONSISTENTLY make, in one try, up to e350 items. I would consider that to be pretty fair, considering that under the current system making anything higher becomes iffy at best with anything but bronze or stone.
Also you have to remember that you will be able to /increase/ your craft skill. You can become better than e350. You can level up to e500 if you want.
You might argue that you are 100%, and shouldn't have to put any more time into learning because you already spent it, and maxed out. BUT, it doesn't work that way, because the conversion would make you a BETTER crafter than you are now. Can you consistently make e500 items? No, you can't. Sorry. I'm not even aware of any player made e500 items in existance. If there is one, it was stone or bronze, and took incredible luck. Its not something you can do over and over.
Its impossible to convert perfectly because of the simple fact that the systems work differently. Therefore the only thing Celeborn can do is try to get as close as he can. e350 is pretty much as close as you can get.
If you would like a free boost in crafting power, thats an entirely different issue, and I don't think thats what this patch is about. I'm already happy that hes making it, giving us the ability to become even better crafters than we already are.
anyways, zidane isnt close to epic 600, so its ok, just a case of the brain thinking things it shouldnt, happens to the best of us
as for your crafts, if celeborn opens up a test port before he tosses in the patch, it would be a cool idea for you to try it out, and see if you like it.
As weems mentioned, in many ways, it's infinitely superior to the current system. You will consistently create 'perfect' items of whatever level you pick - consistently as in /everytime/
But your question is about having fewer crafts, all i can say, is wait for the testing, i think you will like it.
Since we have sockets in crafted equipment, why not make it possible to stick GEMS in there? DUH! I wonder why that was never alowed before. They can either add a couple hundred more E space or add an effect like a rune would, only on an equal or inferior scale.
Whaddaya think? Can't get that outta hand if the equipment only has 4 sockets maximum, and if the lesser gems don't add too much to the item. Only diamonds should really have a profound impact because they're relativly rare to begin with. Maybe even add a one gem limit per item.
I think we should be able to stick mushrooms in socketed armours. We could even have cool names for the mushrooms such as "Jock Itch", "Athletes Foot", and "Ring Worm". These mushrooms could affect a character in various interesting ways. Orcs, Ogres, and Trolls should get a bonus racial socket locations we could call "Armpit", "Crotch", and "Bellybutton".
🖼 Archived external image reference (rhs.org.uk/ph_honeyfungus_toadstools.jpg) Why cast create food when you can harvest a succulent mushroom from your navel?
Just wondering, how will sockets work in the new system? Will they be set for certain blueprint, randomly determined? If there are no sockets, it may help even more to kill some runewords. Of course...if items are tuned down enough, mob eq may be used for runewords.
could be allready posted, but i'll mention it again (i'm too lazy to read the whole post, soz, mebbe later).
you can pay at a craftsman to learn crafts and can learn that way a mastery. so you don't need to waiste tons of resources before you get a 100% at crafting items. this is very cool, but makes it a lot easier for people to start crafting jewellery... even i could start crafting rings and other jewellery without trouble... and i think that way, most people will start crafting jewellery instead of eg daggers or blowguns... some weapons or pieces of eq will simply be ruled out...
unless i misunderstanded smth...
Do you meant "buy" as in, pay money? why? Why should we have to pay to learn something?
Buy a specialism? That's wierd, you should just be able to learn it.....
On learning/unlearning crafts:
- You learn any craft for a few copper from a NPC craftsman.
- You learn a specialisation for one Mitril coin from a craftsman.
Each specialisation you learn after that costs two Mitril coins
and so on.
- You learn a mastery for five Adamantium coins from a craftsman.
Each mastery you learn after that costs ten adamantium coins and
so on.
- You can unlearn your specialisation, causing you to loose both your
specialisation and your mastery. You can also unlearn your mastery.
Note that this doesn't reset the mastery and specialisation skill
buy cost.
- PRE-PATCH crafters instantly gain their specialisations and masteries
based on their percentage. A 100% percentage currently trades in for
level e300 in your chosen craft.
Specialism = 100,000gp in current money
First Mastery = 5,000,000gp in current money
Second Mastery = 10,000,000gp in current money
Third Mastery = either 15,000,000gp or 20,000,000gp (unclear if he is doubling or adding 5 million.)
Don't be too affraid of the costs YET. We have no idea yet how easy it will be to get any of these new coins. A couple Mitrill coins might be quite easy to get in epic. Adamantite might be easy enough to get in really high epic.
Also, its unclear if we are able to buy MULTIPLE specialisms within the same craft. For that matter it might be possible to buy multiple masteries for a specialism. Wouldn't it be nice if you could be a master of metal Axes, Swords, and Daggers if you were rich and worked really really hard at it?
OK, its been a while, so is there any date at which we might see the patch in? For that matter has Celeborn been in touch with anyone here lately? Haven't seen hide nor hair of him in nearly 2 months, just wondering if he's still cooking something up. Not that i'm trying to rush him or anything i just want to know what the status is and how much progress he's been makeing.
I've been pondering pet-cloning issues. *ponder*
But then so have one or two of the guys I spoke with. Guess they never expected to meet her dad so soon! 
