they seem to be quite weak compared to most of the others, i dont really know any suggestions as of now but i was hoping others could help me in that part...i will test them further to see and find out more
Druids and Rangers
Started by Jhereko on Sep 20, 2004 · 35 posts in thread
Jhereko (#1)
I dont know about most people but i have tested druids and played a ranger in the new system....and apart from nature spells for druids and track for rangers and ranged they seem to be quite weak compared to most of the others, i dont really know any suggestions as of now but i was hoping others could help me in that part...i will test them further to see and find out more
they seem to be quite weak compared to most of the others, i dont really know any suggestions as of now but i was hoping others could help me in that part...i will test them further to see and find out more
Avestifal (#2)
I suggest higher percentage in bows for rangers, give them 99% in bows. A naturally faster shot would also be nice. And perhaps an auto 25% in Salvaging.
lingolas (#3)
i agree about the ranger but not druid. druid are still powerful, too bad they cant dual wield. No one knows how to use a druid properly. A druid with 2 other classes can be extremely deadly if they are chosen correctly.
There isnt much to talk about Rangers because they simply suck. I like to see more bow bonus added to rangers.
Possibilities:
multishots
poison arrows
flame arrows
acid arrows
....
Piercing damage causes bleeding
you get the idea.
There isnt much to talk about Rangers because they simply suck. I like to see more bow bonus added to rangers.
Possibilities:
multishots
poison arrows
flame arrows
acid arrows
....
Piercing damage causes bleeding
you get the idea.
Kiasyn (#4)
perhaps a spin type skill?
where if they shoot the arrow hard enuff it goes straight thru one opponent and into another? dunno :p
where if they shoot the arrow hard enuff it goes straight thru one opponent and into another? dunno :p
Dunadan (#5)
It's kind of hard in real life to shoot multiple arrows at a time, let alone shoot an arrow through two people. The idea of Fire/Poison arrows might work as well as better bow percent or faster shooting ability. Or maybe give rangers some other boosts while wearing light armor.
Quintos (#6)
Well rangers are a partially magic class. Perhaps give them their own archer spell school which contains spells...maybe move Arrow to that school, put multishot, enchant quiver (using elements), could get some decent spells which don't take away from their melee.
Kariyana (#7)
Being that I'm a pure-melee kind of player, playing anything even remotely magical is shakey to me.
I've tried to make a druid, she's still at level 30, and anything that she tries to go after leaves her either incapacitated or constantly having to flee.
And it's not that she isn't well-equipped or strong enough, she is. I purposely put crafted eq, weapons and other stat-raising items on my druid for the sole purpose of levelling her with little to no magic. And it's not in just one area, it's areas that are either close to her level or where her level is median in regards to the level range itself.
I haven't tried her in the new system yet, but unless druids have been upped where melee is concerned, they still aren't worth levelling.
I've tried to make a druid, she's still at level 30, and anything that she tries to go after leaves her either incapacitated or constantly having to flee.
And it's not that she isn't well-equipped or strong enough, she is. I purposely put crafted eq, weapons and other stat-raising items on my druid for the sole purpose of levelling her with little to no magic. And it's not in just one area, it's areas that are either close to her level or where her level is median in regards to the level range itself.
I haven't tried her in the new system yet, but unless druids have been upped where melee is concerned, they still aren't worth levelling.
Silvanos (#8)
Celeborn has already asked about druids and rangers on the avatar channel. I posted the ideas on the idea board but ill c/p them here so you can discuss them.
the help files states that they: Able to face many warriors on almost even
footing, and able to shield themselves nearly as well as some mages, druids are truly a gifted class.
druids get maces and staves to 50, blowguns to 30, and everything else to 10
in general it lacks very strong skill/spells to make it very wanted, things
like rosethorn and ironwood are just "handy"
earthquake doesnt do enough damage in epics (not even comparable to distort) and meteor isnt nature when logically it should be and the damage is also minimal.
thorn is the worst spell in the world and lasts an incredibly short amount of
time
entangle is entirely way 2 slow and the effects are unknown
and shapeshift basically doesn't do much since there are only 2 types u really want to use: treant or unicorn. And all the advantages u get can just as easily be gained by enchanting stats into eq without the disadvantages u get with shapeshift
mb faerie fire should be enhanced as well to give it some advantage in counterspells
lingolas responded by saying he agreed but left out elementals and said they should be able to summon 2. and other summoning spells should be buffed. he also said meteorite should be physical.
I responded with:
I left out elementals cuz i think theyre fine. but yes other summoning spells should be improved.
fyi its Meteor/Spike. And so if Earthquake is a natural disaster, Meteors dont exist at all in nature is that it? Magical elemental breath = unnatural =
physical, distort = same, meteor = big large rock from outerspace = nature. And it should be nature because druids need it more than mages do, ill bet 90% of all mages have never cast meteor and just stick to distort and breath which is more than enough for them. And with a til it becomes an elemental bunch of *spikes* that come out of the *earth*. Seems like a nature spell to me...closer to nature than phsyical in any case.
So theres something for discussion
the help files states that they: Able to face many warriors on almost even
footing, and able to shield themselves nearly as well as some mages, druids are truly a gifted class.
druids get maces and staves to 50, blowguns to 30, and everything else to 10
in general it lacks very strong skill/spells to make it very wanted, things
like rosethorn and ironwood are just "handy"
earthquake doesnt do enough damage in epics (not even comparable to distort) and meteor isnt nature when logically it should be and the damage is also minimal.
thorn is the worst spell in the world and lasts an incredibly short amount of
time
entangle is entirely way 2 slow and the effects are unknown
and shapeshift basically doesn't do much since there are only 2 types u really want to use: treant or unicorn. And all the advantages u get can just as easily be gained by enchanting stats into eq without the disadvantages u get with shapeshift
mb faerie fire should be enhanced as well to give it some advantage in counterspells
lingolas responded by saying he agreed but left out elementals and said they should be able to summon 2. and other summoning spells should be buffed. he also said meteorite should be physical.
I responded with:
I left out elementals cuz i think theyre fine. but yes other summoning spells should be improved.
fyi its Meteor/Spike. And so if Earthquake is a natural disaster, Meteors dont exist at all in nature is that it? Magical elemental breath = unnatural =
physical, distort = same, meteor = big large rock from outerspace = nature. And it should be nature because druids need it more than mages do, ill bet 90% of all mages have never cast meteor and just stick to distort and breath which is more than enough for them. And with a til it becomes an elemental bunch of *spikes* that come out of the *earth*. Seems like a nature spell to me...closer to nature than phsyical in any case.
So theres something for discussion
Silvanos (#9)
Id like to add poison to that list. It still lasts an incredibly short time.
Isabelle (#10)
ahh. Lets make them rangers good again!!!
* charge at a greater distance.
* lower summmoning ability(save for druid)
* increase sensory
* allow arrows to be enchantable to make up for single wield. or
* allow arrows to be dipped in poison/spell effected/fire/oil...
* eat/drink less
* increase hunting(is there such thing as hunting?)
* greater exploration exp points
* should be 99% in bows(longbows only)
* should be 90% in swords if not already
* extra wear location (maybe)
* increase nature but not much (if not already)
* charge at a greater distance.
* lower summmoning ability(save for druid)
* increase sensory
* allow arrows to be enchantable to make up for single wield. or
* allow arrows to be dipped in poison/spell effected/fire/oil...
* eat/drink less
* increase hunting(is there such thing as hunting?)
* greater exploration exp points
* should be 99% in bows(longbows only)
* should be 90% in swords if not already
* extra wear location (maybe)
* increase nature but not much (if not already)
Quintos (#11)
Althought it would make sense for ranger to have higher ranged skills, it does go against the weapon skills. I think they should just gain new skills or spells which affet their ranged weapons. If you are going to rasie the skills of one class in the Mainly Melee group, then the other should be too. Of course, if you raised paladin to 99% swords, then they'd be too good. Oh well, not like most people really care about what help weapon_skills says, but I think it's like that for a reasonQuote:Class Config Spec. Adepts Other Classes
===================== ====== ======= ===== ===========================
Pure Melee 3x99% 3x85% 80% Warrior, Rogue
Hybrid (Mainly Melee) 3x80% 2x70% 60% Ranger, Paladin
Hybrid (Mainly Magic) 2x60% 2x50% 25% Psionicist, Bard, Cleric
Pure Magic 2x50% 1x30% 10% Druid, Mage
(2x70% means the class will have 2 specific weapon types they can raise
to 70% skill).
Zeraphin (#12)
If you use the code tag around your text, it will be in pre-formatted courier-style font.
Quintos (#13)
When I use code it priviews as having the same bg color as it does text color:
CODE · MUD Output
This is a testZeraphin (#14)
Corrected.
Silvanos (#15)
I agree with all the pts Isabelle made cept for the longbow thing. Tech. i suppose many fantasy themes focus on the longbow for rangers and elves and such, but the smaller races are being forgotten. Maybe some sort of exception or more general rule? I know you can get past size but it doesnt really help you in the short term.
Isabelle (#16)
those were not my own, i think lingolas was the original poster of that
Kazin (#17)
hmm maybe it's just me but i think rangers are kinda fine as it is
when i made my alt a single class ranger, he was doing fine with just the basic levelling mob eq
the only thing i'd like to see is maybe a spell or two more but then again, they're not amazing at magic as it is, so maybe an extra skill or two like maybe being able to make a healing paste out of things you can forage to counter the fact they dont get a very good healing spell......plus it'd help the lower level rangers if they could have healing pastes with them
and before anyone mentions the healing juices, i've seen a lot of lower level people asking for heals and potions and stuff on ooc recently, so it seems to me that juices are a thing only a tri-av alt would know about until the newb is told about them. So giving the newb a new way of healing themselves would be a good thing in my opinion
Oh and if the paste is implemented, please ensure that young uns can find out about it easily
when i made my alt a single class ranger, he was doing fine with just the basic levelling mob eq
the only thing i'd like to see is maybe a spell or two more but then again, they're not amazing at magic as it is, so maybe an extra skill or two like maybe being able to make a healing paste out of things you can forage to counter the fact they dont get a very good healing spell......plus it'd help the lower level rangers if they could have healing pastes with them
and before anyone mentions the healing juices, i've seen a lot of lower level people asking for heals and potions and stuff on ooc recently, so it seems to me that juices are a thing only a tri-av alt would know about until the newb is told about them. So giving the newb a new way of healing themselves would be a good thing in my opinion
Oh and if the paste is implemented, please ensure that young uns can find out about it easily
Arureal (#18)
Why is it that people always want to beef up the classes and races, more spells, more skills, etc. I have played every class except Bard, and every race except Gnome, and have never had a problem leveling any of them, and I adventure solo. DL has gotten much too easy to level characters as it is, putting the restrictions on Signals is a step in the right direction. I do agree that the Meteor spell should be a nature spell, as it does seem to fit that type of spell, and is not really needed by a mage. Every class and race has its strengths and weaknesses, and I think that the game is well balanced because of it. If you are having trouble leveling, you are not using your character to their full ability. It does not surprise me that many have problems, as they level their characters to fast and they have not taken the time to build or equip a character properly.
Arureal, the absent-minded elf
Hate me if you must, but I can only say the truth as I see it.
Arureal, the absent-minded elf
Hate me if you must, but I can only say the truth as I see it.
Kazin (#19)
we're not talking about levelling characters cos most of us on this forum have levelled many characters, we're talking about how unbalanced they can be at epic levels and in pvp and other stuff
Silvanos (#20)
Even so, i levelled a first class druid and in the two years ive been here and in the many alts ive made and remade etc, that sucked the worst ever. I mean i tried utilizing the spell aspect...earthquake etc = crap. I tried using melee, ie. maces = yick but thats what i stuck with. Rangers in general are fine except for my above stated comments. Druids are what im really interested in. I have 2 druids now, one at e100+. I can easily state that none of my druid spells are utilized at all except for my ward spell with slash, but thats just either one type of ward and enchant the other resist or the opposite. and the rosethorn, ironwood spells.
lingolas (#21)
rosethorn and ironwood does not only benefit druids, they benefit everyone else too. I suggest that we make ironwood and rosethorn only wearable by druids 
Silvanos (#22)
And enchant weapon spells only available to mages and they can only wear the eq they cast on? Give me a break. Those are utility spells that enhance norm eq but especially crafted items. Theres no logical premise for that either. If he can cast it on one wooden armor then he can on another. Same with enchant weapon.
Avestifal (#23)
I have a ranger character, and NONE of the spells except for recall that he got while leveling as ranger were useful enough for me to conjure. It seems to me that this class is more melee than it is magical, so either remove the magic entirely and just amke them nature loving warriors who can rustle up some grub, and can do some damage with a bow, or give them better spells.
And as to the point about "it being rather hard to shoot multiple arrows or shoot one through somebody"
I doubt there were many warriors who could spin around really fast and not get themselves killed during or immediately after said maneuver.
And this is a fantasy game, and if you look at myths and legends of hero's etc some of them were strong enough to do such uber things. In a realm where magic and dragons live, things like that should be possible as well. For isntance an ogre using a compound bow made for an ogre would probably do a good job of sending an ogre arrow through a Human. Perhaps size of the ranger and his weapon vs size of the enemy he's attacking could play a role in the arrow going through?
Also, as I think Silvanos pointed out a long while back, maybe arrows could lodge into someone and cause less balance/mobility/movement and more blood loss etc., or extra dmg for moving around while stuck full of arrows.
And as to the point about "it being rather hard to shoot multiple arrows or shoot one through somebody"
I doubt there were many warriors who could spin around really fast and not get themselves killed during or immediately after said maneuver.
And this is a fantasy game, and if you look at myths and legends of hero's etc some of them were strong enough to do such uber things. In a realm where magic and dragons live, things like that should be possible as well. For isntance an ogre using a compound bow made for an ogre would probably do a good job of sending an ogre arrow through a Human. Perhaps size of the ranger and his weapon vs size of the enemy he's attacking could play a role in the arrow going through?
Also, as I think Silvanos pointed out a long while back, maybe arrows could lodge into someone and cause less balance/mobility/movement and more blood loss etc., or extra dmg for moving around while stuck full of arrows.
Quintos (#24)
What I want for rangers:
More spells
I think rangers should get more spells which are actually useful. Maybe a bless type spell which only applies to bows? A spell to enchant a quiver/bow with a certain element?
If no spells, make them pure fighters
This would mean that they would earn 99% in bows, crossbows, and swords (or change this to a different weapon if someone can think of a reason another fits better). This would also allow them to get more skills (although they do have more battle skills then paladins
. Perhaps give them the oppurtunity to fill the bottom of a quiver arrows with poison or some flammable liquid. For the flammable, they could have a 'light' skill which they use to ignite the arrow (1-2 second extra lag?) before they fire it. The poison option would probably be easy to code, seeing as how there are already poisons.
More access to nature
Allow them to get a familiar (other than just those damn feys/dragonettes/sprites) which is in addition to a pet. I believe there is a note about adding eagles in, perhaps use this or something similar. They could have to go to a forest and use a certain skill to get this familiar, depending on the forest area, it could be different than other areas. The familiar could level up in proportion to you (level/2?) and even increase into epic levels. Druids too should get this, but I see ranger as having a stronger skill in it (I generally think of druids as the spiritual side and rangers the physical side).
Other stuff
Well I forget what else I was gonna suggest...but there's more.
EDIT: Oh yeah, the arrows getting lodged thing.
More spells
I think rangers should get more spells which are actually useful. Maybe a bless type spell which only applies to bows? A spell to enchant a quiver/bow with a certain element?
If no spells, make them pure fighters
This would mean that they would earn 99% in bows, crossbows, and swords (or change this to a different weapon if someone can think of a reason another fits better). This would also allow them to get more skills (although they do have more battle skills then paladins
. Perhaps give them the oppurtunity to fill the bottom of a quiver arrows with poison or some flammable liquid. For the flammable, they could have a 'light' skill which they use to ignite the arrow (1-2 second extra lag?) before they fire it. The poison option would probably be easy to code, seeing as how there are already poisons.More access to nature
Allow them to get a familiar (other than just those damn feys/dragonettes/sprites) which is in addition to a pet. I believe there is a note about adding eagles in, perhaps use this or something similar. They could have to go to a forest and use a certain skill to get this familiar, depending on the forest area, it could be different than other areas. The familiar could level up in proportion to you (level/2?) and even increase into epic levels. Druids too should get this, but I see ranger as having a stronger skill in it (I generally think of druids as the spiritual side and rangers the physical side).
Other stuff
Well I forget what else I was gonna suggest...but there's more.
EDIT: Oh yeah, the arrows getting lodged thing.
Isabelle (#25)
new elemental rune for rangers
when added to shapeshift gives you options of certain creature types which are cool.
(all forest type animals - including possibly green dragon?)
when added to shapeshift gives you options of certain creature types which are cool.
(all forest type animals - including possibly green dragon?)
Quintos (#26)
Shapeshift seems like more of a druid spell I think. I really like my ideas more.
Avestifal (#27)
your idea's? you ganked the first two from me you just added superfluous words to them
you just added superfluous words to them
Quintos (#28)
It's the American wayAvestifal wrote:your idea's? you ganked the first two from me
Vogar Eol (#29)
The main problems with Rangers seem to revolve around the fact that over time, their skills and spells have only been taken away from them. Only major addition I remember for rangers is the config for tracking.
They have had picklock taken away. They have had detrap reduced to 50%. Some of their spells went away (detect hidden). In the same time period, rogues, paladins, druids, and psionists gained spells and/or skills. Why then would ANYONE want to be a ranger?
Personally I feel that rangers need to be discussed seperate from druids, and druids seperate from rangers. If they are so darn close to one another that they are spoken of together, then one class should be deleted. I will continue my discussions under topics on Druids and Rangers seperately.
They have had picklock taken away. They have had detrap reduced to 50%. Some of their spells went away (detect hidden). In the same time period, rogues, paladins, druids, and psionists gained spells and/or skills. Why then would ANYONE want to be a ranger?
Personally I feel that rangers need to be discussed seperate from druids, and druids seperate from rangers. If they are so darn close to one another that they are spoken of together, then one class should be deleted. I will continue my discussions under topics on Druids and Rangers seperately.
Skeletal (#30)
To the people saying that Rangers shouldnt have a good sword %, Havent you ever seen LotR? Legolas POWNED with those swords of his, right now the % is only 80 and i believ it should be 90, and bow should also be 99. I agree with the multi shot idea and the poision/fire arrows as well. Its about time rangers can hold there own in PvP combate.
Chavez (#31)
Have you ever read LotR? The movie is full of mistakes and doesn't mention alot of details (which is logical), but you only notice them when you've read the book... First of all, Legolas is a Wood Elf, a prince from Demsterwold, his father is king Thranduil. Second, Aragorn on the contrary IS a ranger who is the rightful heir to the throne of Gondor, but chooses not to claim it (at first).
But these things are details, and your point about the ranger is correct, they are underappreciated (if that word exists :p)
But these things are details, and your point about the ranger is correct, they are underappreciated (if that word exists :p)
lingolas (#32)
i would like to see rangers overpowered from a distance, but get screwed up close. Basically, turning them into archers. Maybe we should give them powerful offensive long range offensive skills. Those skills wouldbe useless when the enemy is up close.
Chilliwack (#33)
i just really want to see bows being useful, atm, theyre pointless... they really dont do much damage... like, i mean getting a shaft with a big metal head stuck in you (grow up) would kinda hurt... more than the 20-40 damage ive seen on bows
Quintos (#34)
Bows are powerful as they currently are, but I would like to see them changed. Keep weapon percents as they are, but have the range on a bow be decided by a new skill. Rangers would get this skill the highest followed by rogues and warriors. A ranger with this skill maxed should have a max range of 360 (lich-bone crossbow of speed's range, if I'm not mistaken). I would also suggest a minimum range for ranged weapons to be used. Start with ranged weapons only useful from 100 to 150 feet, at closer ranges, an unskilled bow user cannot effectively track his or her target. This number should get smaller and go down to either 25 or 10 feet for a ranger. At very close range, melee should be forced, unless Celeborn adds in a new archer class that relies on ranged weaponry as their only weapon.
lingolas (#35)
It would be nice if bows and arrows cause bleeding. Also, if an archer were to aim at a player's leg and successfully hit it, it would cause cripple and reduces the enemy's advancing speed. If both legs are crippled, the advancing speed is reduced to 4x. I think that archers are not really suppposed to be doing alot of damage, but they are supposed to be annoying. They are supposed to hit and run as in real life. Once the the cavalry catches up to them, they are royally screwed. However, if you are their optimal range, you're screwed.
