vamp oracles

[Isabelle]

people say that having a vampire oracle makes a fight pretty much cheese against a supermob.

in an attempt to at least make a fight last a tiny bit longer when fighting such creatures, would there be much of a problem with them having the ability to bloodpurge?

i know it would offend roleplayers, and that would be my only concern, but do you think the roleplayers would deal with it?

[chubbukoku]

in my honest opinion..I think it should -not- offend any real roleplayer..the bloodpurge spell is there to use..it's a part of the world.
If we were really in Alora..and there were vamps running around..do you really think people would be like..oh..dont change them from being a vampire back to a normal human..it isn't nice..

Bloodpurging is as much in the rp theme as being a vamp..as long as it's done during/right before a fight or something..maybe make bloodpurge unable to be ranged..so that people have to be in the same room as the vampire.

I think Supermob bloodpurging is a fair idea and any who are against it..suck it up and keep playing. There are items that prevent it.

[weems]

Could you really make them bloodpurge with enough complexity to pierce a strong magic resistance of say...150?

A better idea would be to fix this whole infinite blood point thing.

[Quintos]

Yeah...and anyway, vampire warrior/mage/cleric > vampire conjurer > vampire oracle.

[Silvanos]

Well the real problem lies in the fact that they dont need to worry about mana, sounds obvious yes but this leads to a very simple tactic...instant fec'd breath and instant fec'd heal and probably a simple trigger to heal every time you did yourself damage. Lets say they couldnt use instant runes...theyd be very slightly slower with some quicken runes but theyd still use the same tactics except have room for more fecs is my guess...Something in the chain needs to be taken out or slowed down..its not the runes imo, its not speed either. The mob bloodpurge wouldnt really work...its easy as pie for them to kill the rest of Alora as well practically. so something in the vampire section has to be tweaked...unfort. i have no idea what...

[Kiasyn]

make it so mana = bloodpoitns

remove infinite bp

vamp will still have an advantage where they can feed to get back BP

[weems]

You could fix the infinite bloodpoint bug by giving vampires mana back again, like everybody else. Make it a pure roleplay choice, with no special features.

[Jerardo]

The problem isn't bloodpurge. As chub stated, there's an item that prevents bloodpurge so making mob have bloodpurge does nothing...

If you want to slow down vampires who uses bp as 'infinite' mana, make it where when a vampire have 0 bp - the vamp would have a 51% fail rate at casting a spell and still loses hp. This would make the idea of "when you have low hp, just heal" much less reliable. Maybe this is would encourage players to play vampires the 'intended' way and actually feed for bp to cast spell. The idea is to slow down infinite mana abuse.

At the same token, melee combo will always be stronger than casters so basically any argument to nerf caster would put a bigger gap between casters-melee.

[Lhile]

I actually made pixievamp oracle so that these magic-users dont own me and i've grown to like this owning every supermob but i do see how its not fair...i like the idea of the 51% chance to fail a spell with 0 bp but if you do that at LEAST give us more than a max of 60 bp please?

[Quintos]

I actually made pixievamp oracle so that these magic-users dont own me?

This one line shows that you do not strategize enough if you had to create a new character to avoid being killed by magic users...and you used an ineffective build. This tells me that we should not give you more BP because there is probably an already possible alternative to this.

[DELETED]

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[Zidane]

vampire oracle? With a cie runes used in each spells and because the free healing.
Why not make it more challenging for vampires. If you have 0 blood points you cant cast spells. If you have 1 or more your able to cast spells. Or make it come from the Hp instead of mana, its there disease in the blood after all.

[Quintos]

vampire oracle? With a cie runes used in each spells and because the free healing.
Why not make it more challenging for vampires. If you have 0 blood points you cant cast spells. If you have 1 or more your able to cast spells. Or make it come from the Hp instead of mana, its there disease in the blood after all.

I stopped reading at the end of the first line...someone must have missed something.

[Navith]

I don't even know where to start with this thread. It's full of so much misinformation my eyes are bleeding.

1.Giving supermobs bloodpurge won't change a thing for the hardcore vampires, they ALWAYS wear a artifact of undead control.

2.If you made a trigger to heal yourself when you caused yourself damage, it'd be a infinite loop, noone does it, noone ever will because it's blatant stupidity.

3. An Oracle has no reason to use bees. Spells have a 1sec cast time, you can easily reach that with haste/vigilance/time flux. Vamp or not, a oracle is always using -mana(bp) or +damage runes.

4. Epic melee are stronger then epic casters, period. i don't care if you're a pixie conjurer, oracle or tooth fairy you'll never come remotely close to the sheer power a warrior or rogue can cause. Damage and AR enchants means melee will always hit, and always hit harder then you. If you kill txa in a minute on a vamp oracle, a holy templar or inquisitor does it in 30 seconds. good luck killing txa now though since his will roll change. you could give him 200mob and melee would still hit him, you could give him 10k dr, melee would still damage him.

If you want to cheese, maybe you should look at how some of the other epic classes can kill supermobs, oracles are pretty freaking low on the list vampire or not.

Yes this post is hostile, i'm sick of people who know nothing about playing a vampire, oracle, or melee trying to make suggestions based on non-sense.

[weems]

I agree Navith. But seriously, don't go badmouthing the people in this thread.

Quintos, for example, is the best caster in the game.
Silvanos is no rookie either.
Kiasyn has extensive experience with every aspect of the game.

The main reason why the balance of physical and magic damage users is so screwed up is because of equipment.

The casters biggest advantage, and biggest downfall, is that equipment doesn't help their spells. They can't have a nice custom set of uber equipment to make their spell damage higher, or hit more, or any offensive capability. So what most casters do is either go commando, with very little equipment, or pump the living hell out of mana/hp/mobility.

[Quintos]

1.Giving supermobs bloodpurge won't change a thing for the hardcore vampires, they ALWAYS wear a artifact of undead control.

Agreed

2.If you made a trigger to heal yourself when you caused yourself damage, it'd be a infinite loop, noone does it, noone ever will because it's blatant stupidity.

Also agreed, but a heal trigger that heals depending on your health percentage is very possible, or one that simply considers how much damage you have been given and adds it up.

3. An Oracle has no reason to use bees. Spells have a 1sec cast time, you can easily reach that with haste/vigilance/time flux. Vamp or not, a oracle is always using -mana(bp) or +damage runes.

Damage runes only aid up to a certain point. Mana runes are useless to most vampires because regardless of how much bp it uses, it still takes away the same amount of hp when you have no bp. Bees are useful for vampires because they make spells even quicker, and even when I'm not vamp'ed, I use some spells with bees in them.

4. Epic melee are stronger then epic casters, period. i don't care if you're a pixie conjurer, oracle or tooth fairy you'll never come remotely close to the sheer power a warrior or rogue can cause. Damage and AR enchants means melee will always hit, and always hit harder then you. If you kill txa in a minute on a vamp oracle, a holy templar or inquisitor does it in 30 seconds. good luck killing txa now though since his will roll change. you could give him 200mob and melee would still hit him, you could give him 10k dr, melee would still damage him.

Agreed, like Weems said, eq-independance is both the advantage and the downfall of the mage and I once again suggest that we tie some caster stats to equipment.

If you want to cheese, maybe you should look at how some of the other epic classes can kill supermobs, oracles are pretty freaking low on the list vampire or not.

Although I am a step above oracle, conjurers are one of the safest classes to fight supermobs on and oracle is the safest, especially with proper equipment. They are also rather effective at killing. That said, I would love to change my classes so that I could effectively melee as I would kill supermobs that much easier.

Yes this post is hostile, i'm sick of people who know nothing about playing a vampire, oracle, or melee trying to make suggestions based on non-sense.

I agree that people should examine classes more before commenting on them, but even I am sometimes guilty of underexamining things.

[Kiasyn]

2.If you made a trigger to heal yourself when you caused yourself damage, it'd be a infinite loop, noone does it, noone ever will because it's blatant stupidity.

Also agreed, but a heal trigger that heals depending on your health percentage is very possible, or one that simply considers how much damage you have been given and adds it up.

Actually if you stuck a Cie in your heal it wouldnt damage you.

4. Epic melee are stronger then epic casters, period. i don't care if you're a pixie conjurer, oracle or tooth fairy you'll never come remotely close to the sheer power a warrior or rogue can cause. Damage and AR enchants means melee will always hit, and always hit harder then you. If you kill txa in a minute on a vamp oracle, a holy templar or inquisitor does it in 30 seconds. good luck killing txa now though since his will roll change. you could give him 200mob and melee would still hit him, you could give him 10k dr, melee would still damage him.

Agreed, like Weems said, eq-independance is both the advantage and the downfall of the mage and I once again suggest that we tie some caster stats to equipment.

Yep... I can kill Executioner's Brother in 2 (melee) hits.

[Navith]

I agree Navith. But seriously, don't go badmouthing the people in this thread.

Quintos, for example, is the best caster in the game.
Silvanos is no rookie either.
Kiasyn has extensive experience with every aspect of the game..

This is true, it wasn't directed at every person in the thread, however i'm still not letting that trigger comment slide, regardless of how many years he's been playing on a non-vampire.

[Jerardo]

Well the real problem lies in the fact that they dont need to worry about mana, sounds obvious yes but this leads to a very simple tactic...instant fec'd breath and instant fec'd heal and probably a simple trigger to heal every time you did yourself damage...

It'll go in a pointless loop if you use "a simple trigger to heal every time you did yourself damage".

And about cie heals, even if you put a cie in it, that results in you casting heal every other round, which is a waste of time.

Hooray for Navith for hitting nail head on.

Editted to take out offensive question, but weems already quoted.

[weems]

Well the real problem lies in the fact that they dont need to worry about mana, sounds obvious yes but this leads to a very simple tactic...instant fec'd breath and instant fec'd heal and probably a simple trigger to heal every time you did yourself damage...

Err no. Have you played vampire? It'll go in a pointless loop if you use "a simple trigger to heal every time you did yourself damage".

And about cie heals, even if you put a cie in it, that results in you casting heal every other round, which is a waste of time.

Hooray for Navith for hitting nail head on.

Yeah, until Quintos pwned him.

[Navith]

Yeah, until Quintos pwned him.

I smell irony.

[Zidane]

last time i check about "An Oracle" (gnome/pixie) they can put several runes in one spell cie+bee+fec. They're some player that even have "of adept" in 2 staffs? pixies and gnome can break 105DC i heard

[weems]

Yeah, until Quintos pwned him.

I smell irony.

I hold by everything I have said in this thread. Vampire should be cosmetic only.

[Quintos]

last time i check about "An Oracle" (gnome/pixie) they can put several runes in one spell cie+bee+fec. They're some player that even have "of adept" in 2 staffs? pixies and gnome can break 105DC i heard

It's not a matter of can they, it's a matter of who in their right mind would. A 'bee' is 40 complexity, a 'cie' is 45. This results in an addition of 85 complexity to the spell.

Arrow would have a complexity of 89 WITHOUT fecs
Breath would have a complexity of 120 WITHOUT fecs or elemental runes
Cone would have a complexity of 95 WITHOUT fecs
Distort would have a complexity of 107 WITHOUT fecs
Heal would have a complexity of 93 WITHOUT fecs
Meteor would have a complexity of 120 WITHOUT fecs
Psionic blow would have a complexity of 110 WITHOUT fecs
Regenerate would have a complexity of 110
Resurrect would have a complexity of 115
Salve would have a complexity of 89 WITHOUT fecs
Spikes would have a complexity of 120 WITHOUT fecs
Sunbeam would have a complexity of 117 WITHOUT fecs

What does this teach us? The 99.9% of casters (in other words, just about everyone but me) would not be able to make an effective cie and bee caster because of the outrageous complexities of these spells. Although I will not get into them here, there are more reasons that cause me not to. The only spell which might even make sense to put it is resurrect as you're generally not in danger if you're casting resurrect (if you know how to fight properly), even regenerate would not be effective because the complexity would be raised so much that you have a chance of fizzling, unless of course you are the class that I am going to make if I ever return..

[Bon]

oh god where to start first off i would like to say what would be the point of making a vamp have 60 bp taht is gone in about 2 spells have to stop then ....... you would spend half the fight feeding and would make vamps USELESS and you dont have INFINATE BP you do but after your out you cost yourself hp that is your choice if you want to run the risk of killing yourself not many people can play a vamp effectivly in this game without killing them self even with heal and bees are usefull to orcles yes i understand taht its only 1 second but with a bee i can cast about 2 to 3 times when without a be i could get 1 off and bloodpurge on supermobs pointless any one Rping should be using the artifact and the 51% failure rate i guess could make sense but seeing as how basicly every single one of my like 7 tri avs is vamp i dont see the problem with them i chose to do it because i like vamps if you want to make the bp thing more fair give them more then 60 bp and also for gods sake raise the blood complex it tops off at like 43 its rediculas what the hell can you do with 43 complex it dosnt even break most mobs willpower saves