bone equ and weapons

[Zidane]

Actually it is relevant and part of the economy patch. As crafts are getting an overhaul I might as well handle the issues concerning bonecarving/leatherworking and tailoring.

please make sure we have enchantment space for leveling character/alts
maybe less durable (break easy when damage) for more enchantment space with high critcials (10x)

[Isabelle]

more enchantment space, and 10x criticals

what are you smoking, and why aren't you sharing with the rest of us

[Arureal]

I have worked with bone and ivory in real life, so here are some observations from that work. Bone from the shoulder blade makes an excellent spear point, or knife blade, so long as you stay within reasonable size limits. Primitive man made axes from shoulder blades also, but I prefer my flint and copper battle-axe. A blade 6 inches long by 1 1/2 to 2 inches wide makes a strong point that will not break easily with normal use. Normal being stabbing (unarmored) animals and people. But bone does not hold a decent edge. Ivory is a little better, but not much. I have a lovely 5-inch dagger made from ivory. The edge is still only slightly better than letter opener quality, but the point, even dulled with age and use is decent, as the bloodstains on it can attest to. I didn’t put them there; it was that way when I bought it thank you.
So bone in its natural state is only so-so as a material for objects larger than a fishhook. But bone can be modified and shaped to make it better. Bone can be boiled in resins and allowed to dry to make it more durable for war hammers and the like. Bone can also be softened in vinegar and reshaped much like wood is shaped with steam. Bows of great strength have been made in this way, with pulls greater than a wood bow of the same size. So bone can be a good material for weapons when cured and treated in the proper way. This also fits in well with Celeborn’s coming changes to the craft system.

Now lets consider bone as armor. We have already seen that we can shape the bone while keeping the grain and that bone can be treated. So we can make bone armor as well as wood, so how do they compare? Native Americans have made collars and breastplates from both bone and wood of the same size and design. My collar is made from bone pipes and a good friend wears one made of ash wood pipes. After 20 or so years, my bone pipes are looking good and show almost no signs of wear but a deepening of their color. He is considering making a new set of pipes as his are wearing at the thinner ends badly. Bone is close to wood in strength but it does not split as easily as wood does along the grain. Wood does take blows across the grain better than bone. I would suggest that bone armor be more durable than wood, and have a lower damage reduction than wood. How much it would lower armor class depends on how you envision bone armor is made. I don’t wish to go into the details of armor construction so let me just state that I think it should not reduce AC as much as wood armor does.

On enchant space. Bone is a magical material but so is hawthorn wood in our game. The enchant should be about the same also. The critical for weapons should be about the same as wood also, maybe 1 better cause it’s a better weapon material than wood, but not much. Anyway that’s my thoughts for now, feel free to agree or disagee. I could go into more detail but this post is long as it is.

[Vogar Eol]

Bone and horn make very nice lamellar armours.

[Arureal]

Very nice armor indeed! My compliments on your workmanship.

[Vogar Eol]

Not my work. I work in metal and leather.

[Vogar Eol]

As crafts are getting an overhaul I might as well handle the issues concerning bonecarving/leatherworking and tailoring.

One quick and fast way to handle this would be to add maybe a couple materials, with some neato little traits.

Tailoring materials:
quilted cotton = natural blunt resistance
silk fabric = natural pierce resistance
linen canvas = natural slash resistance

Leatherworking materials:
Red dragonscale: natural fire resistance
Blue dragonscale: natural electricity resistance
Green dragonscale: natural acid resistance
Black dragonscale: natural posion resistance
Fur: natural cold resistance
leather: natural air resistance (think motorcycle jackets)

Bonecarving materials:
Bone: natural Magic Resistance


The ammount does not need to be large. Lets look for a moment at a couple examples of gear. You can wear under the current system the following made from cloth:

two cloaks
one robe
one dress/shirt
one pants/skirt

Now if each item only gave 5% to either blunt, slash, or pierce that would be a total gain of 25% in resists. If each item had a natural 10%, it would be a total of 50% in a resist. Is that useful? Yes it is, but not too powerful.

Now lets look at Leatherworking:

one helmet
one cuirass
one shield
one greaves
two bracers
one guantlets
one boots

At 5% in a single elemental resistance it would give a total 40% in a single resistance. At 10% per item, it would give a total of 80% (and that would be considered a complete suit of dragonscale armor with shield). Sounds about right at 80%? Sure you still have something to gain from a ward spell or further enchanting, but your almost there. You could have a dragonslaying suit for a single kind of dragon made from the scales of that dragon. Or you could be almost completely resistant to wind or cold by wearing all leather or all fur.

Now lets think about bone:

one helmet
one cuirass
one shield
one greaves
two bracers
one guantlets
one boots

More or less the same as leatherworking. However lets say you gained 5MR per item. Thats a boost of 40MR, not to shabby for your necromancer, or a troll or orc berserker huh?



As a second option, or a possible combination with the above.... You could suddenly bring in layers to the majority of items based on material they are made from.

Light armor for bottom layer.
Medium armor for middle layer.
Heavy armor for top layer.

This would keep things from getting to complex with a larger number of layer, and still makes a lot of sense.

Picture a warrior wearing blunt resistant padding, some leather or scale, and some metal on top to take the damage.

Picture an Aeromancer dressed in Leather? A Pyromancer in red scale? A Cryomancer in Fur?

Makes sense doesn't it? Would you make use of materials other then metal? Sure you would.

[Arureal]

An excellent concept Vogar Eol.

The layering that you spoke of makes sense, and it is realistic. Knights were not naked under all that plate armor, does the word chaffing come to mind. Quilted cotton was worn under chainmail for good reasons; it provided blunt protection that chainmail is weak against, and made penetrating wounds travel farther before they drew blood, besides just keeping down chaffing. As for your head, well if you don’t want your hair hopelessly entangled in your chain coif, you better wear something. Now some races may go for the bald look to prevent this minor problem, but an elf, never. Leather doublets were worn under a metal cuirass, often with a fine silk shirt beneath that, to show off your elven good looks, taste, and wealth.

The resistances you listed suit the materials you assigned them to well. As for how much, either 5% or 10% would seem reasonable. I guess the decision would depend on the availability of resistances for enchantments in the upcoming patch.

I think this would work well with the upcoming craft system. It would encourage crafting in various materials, and crafting in general. Not to mention the fine fashion statement you make with your equipment, something that we elves are prone to do.

So, let me propose a toast, three cheers for the dwarfs idea, may his ale mug be ever full.
(mumbles to himself) “Why didn’t I think of that?â€

[Zidane]

crafting layers i dont want how long i happen asking for this but someone finally wrote it down and i do agree but this is more like a warrior benfits

[Hokuten]

I like Isabelle's idea of limiting what bone can be used for. The concept of "Bob's Big Bone of Bashing" seems a bit dry for my taste, though. Taking into account the previous information given by our resident experts (IC and OOC), why not allow something more like this:


Helmets (wear the skulls of your enemies)
Bracers (smaller bits bound together with sinew)
Cuirasses (what Vogar displayed above)
Greaves (same concept as with bracers)

Daggers (small edge, not generally useful against armor-plated knights)
Arrows (Maybe sharpen a tooth and use a bit of dried sinew to affix it to a shaft?)

Necklaces (think shamanistic necklaces of teeth)

Figurines

Okay, so maybe bone wouldn't be the most protective or durable of materials - but think of how it a more shamanistic society would view the parts that made up its meals? Those parts would be sacred, and might contain the essences of the creature that they came from; wearing them would allow you to pay respect to what you've slain. Perhaps what the equipment lacks in defensive ability it could make up for in enchant space.

Also, I don't see any items made from bone as being made from a single piece, or from bone entirely. While nothing else would be used in the processing or forging of bone items, it's easy to stretch your mind around a more "primitive" aspect of the material.

Taking into account a bit of biology, bone is a porous material. It wouldn't be too hard for a good alchemist to soak it in something to make it more durable (an effect similar to ironwood, perhaps).

On another subject, I agree with Vogar's idea of "passive bonuses" from different materials. I however, would like to see it go a step further...

If fur gives you a natural resistance to the cold, wouldn't it also give you a natural weakness to fire? Fur burns easily, as anyone who has grilled with propane can likely understand. I've singed the hair off of my arms many times thanks to grills that won't light. Back to the game though - perhaps to help the usefulness of fur, an alchemist could maybe soak it in a chemical mixture to remove that fire weakness.


As for leather on a motorcycle, it blocks the wind all right...but it gets hot *fast* if you're not careful. I'm not sure how to represent that in the game...but it's worth noting anyway.

[Gaitika]

Maybe we could have bone, leather, and wood made more durable by a crafting skill all its own? An Alchemist could go out and salvage certain materials to create specific oils to soak one of these materials in. We could have different types of oils to add certain special things to the armor such as the blunt,pierce, or other resists, or just basic oils just to add a little more damage reduction, sturdiness and the like to the item.
you could also maybe tie in the Alchemy craft with crafting specific poisons for rogues to use on weapons as well. Say one poison that paralyzes its victim, while another causes loss of strength and so on.

[Chilliwack]

BOOO to the ironwood, that was a bad spell to begin with

whats bad about the ironwood spell?

[Zidane]

even so, veeeerrry nice vogar! that was a GREAT explanationy thingy, thanks for enlightening me *cheers*

somehow i don't think the caretakers are going to bother about the different types of bone until all the other, more major patches are done..after all, in the big picture of changing economy, changing crafting system and everything else that is being planned, which type of bone you salvaged seems irrelevant...

Actually it is relevant and part of the economy patch. As crafts are getting an overhaul I might as well handle the issues concerning bonecarving/leatherworking and tailoring.

i hope this is not another twist.

[phalanxyrian]

What about just increasing the espace of bone equipment.
i think people woulde wear bone more if it was more easy to get and had better stats.
I would like a necromantic armor made of bones . (like then necromancer in diablo 2)

[Arureal]

I looked at my earlier post and noticed that I did not mention the secret ingredient to make bone soft and shapable, it's Vinegar. Like in "Jack and Jill ran up the hill"....."fixed his nob with vinegar and brown paper."
It works, split my skull as a child and had it fixed that way. Hurts more than I can express, unless you want to pour vinegar on an open wound to see how much, but it works. I can give gory details as to the painfull process, but I will pass.
To see it soften bone, put a chicken bone in a glass of vinegar and check on it every day. Depending on the size of bone, you can start to bend it in about 1-3 days. Ivory was softened the same way. I think Lye may work also, but not sure.

Arureal
High Lord of Lowbies

[Zidane]

What about just increasing the espace of bone equipment.
i think people woulde wear bone more if it was more easy to get and had better stats.
I would like a necromantic armor made of bones . (like then necromancer in diablo 2)

Now with the new race patch. It sound like a good idea for the lich race. (undead) maybe add 10xThe epsace.

[Malkor]

the reason i believe bone eq should be increased in power is simply due to the difficulty in adepting a bone craft and aquiring bones.... i personally think the power of the item should be based on the mob the bone was salvaged from ie Txa bone = espace of met and dam red of met and weight of mitrill and max allowed crit of say X3 with armor and x8 with weps.... think about it: it would take about 15k txa bones to make an
e350 mp cuirass with 100% bonecarve cuirass....15K TXA BONES!!!!! high level mob bones are extremely difficult to get in the quantity needed to forge a high level item and thus i believe they should be the best resource in the game

[ShanaArkai]

can you get txa bones?

[Malkor]

i have no idea, im just saying that a high level mob's bones(possibly extend this to all salvaged materials) should have higher properties.... i just think that the hardest material to obtain should make the best eq

[Zidane]

more enchantment space, and 10x criticals

what are you smoking, and why aren't you sharing with the rest of us

who need to smoke if you have the best drinks on the house j/k

[gsman]

way to revive a dead topic... necromancy is powerful is it?

[Pintac]

Malkor: the reason i believe bone eq should be increased in power is simply due to the difficulty in adepting a bone craft and aquiring bones.... i personally think the power of the item should be based on the mob the bone was salvaged from ie Txa bone = espace of met and dam red of met and weight of mitrill and max allowed crit of say X3 with armor and x8 with weps.... think about it: it would take about 15k txa bones to make an
e350 mp cuirass with 100% bonecarve cuirass....15K TXA BONES!!!!! high level mob bones are extremely difficult to get in the quantity needed to forge a high level item and thus i believe they should be the best resource in the game

There is a slight problem with this theory..as you can have a bunch of whatever bones in your portal...and just one lets say, Txa bone in your inventory..and the bonecarving skill will use up the bones in your portal and the 1 txa bone, and call the item a Txa bone whatever ..you don't need all of the same bone to craft an item :/