Racepatch: Latest races, starsigns, ancestries (BIG POST)

[Celeborn]

Thralls have 25 resistance points to all resistances.

This this include magic or only melee?

/all/ resistances includes magic.

[Celeborn]

what do you mean when you say "shadow dancing: avoid up to 1/3rd of all melee attacks?"

does this mean that you get hit only 66.66% of the time?
or does it mean that you absorb only 66.66% of the hits?

since it says up to, i assume that 33.33% is the max. This suggests that you dont always recieve 33.33% blockage all the time. Meaning that most of the time you only avoid something like 1/4, 1/5, or 1/6... of all melee attacks.

It means when you get hit, and it isn't blocked by something else, you have 33% chance of it missing. (66% chance of it hitting).

[Celeborn]

for the hospic it says "faster wound healing. "

If you are already a troll, how much faster is wound healing? Are they even stackable with the troll's HP regeneration?

they stack with a new trolls HP generation. (starsign+new troll=old troll HP generation).

[Celeborn]

effect of bardic empathy doubled

i assume that bardic empathy are bards' songs. is that right?

yes

[Celeborn]

+25% chance of causing a critical.


since a multistrike usually gives 3 hits. Does this mean that statistically you are garanteed to land a critical strike once every two multistrikes?

No, it means when you have 10% chance of a critical, that percentage is increased by 25%. (12.5% chance of critical).

[Celeborn]

for the hospic 25% HP increase

does this 25% act on the base HP or the total HP(including equ)
Also, if the player keeps on epiccing to gain HP, this 25% would then become larger and larger right with every epic level right?

it is based on a characters level based HP.

[Arureal]

I think Thrall are much more in line with the rest now, not much else to say that has not been covered already.
The system looks great, and provides a lot of coustomization to suit players tastes. Excellent!

Arureal
High Lord of Lowbies

[Nuitari]

for the hospic it says "faster wound healing. "

If you are already a troll, how much faster is wound healing? Are they even stackable with the troll's HP regeneration?

they stack with a new trolls HP generation. (starsign+new troll=old troll HP generation).

Cele, you REALLY should make the troll hp regen higher than it currently is if they devote their race AND starsign to healing. Current troll regen is nothing more than a novelty.

26 hp/3 seconds is maybe okay for a single-classed level 50 troll warrior who can't heal any other way and only has about 1000 hp, but it doesn't scale with epic level so a triav e500 troll with 5000 hp gets the same rate of regen. Any halfway serious triav can cast a 500ish hp, free heal on themselves every second or so, ESPECIALLY one that takes the hospic starsign(whose major bonus is a body complexity).

The limb regen is also insignificant; any triav, especially one with The Hospic, can regenerate long before innate troll regeneration kicks in. Add to this the fact that severs/wounds aren't nearly as common as they used to be and don't play a major role in combat, and this bonus is pretty useless.

Compare troll to orc. The orc can use aggressive/berserk style without taking bonus damage, which is a significant percentage-based bonus to your hp and healing(reduced damage = more efficient healing), meaning it scales with level. 100 universal damage reduction is a significant amount, as well; I don't think my character even has 100 universal damage reduction total, despite my 120ish complexity inner peace and all of my epicbought dr. DR is useless vs melee right now, of course, but it's still good against magic. So, the orc gets a big percentage bonus to his hp and healing that scales with level, and the troll gets a flat 26 hp regeneration every 3 seconds plus limb/wound regeneration that might actually do something once out of every thousand battles.

I suggest scaling the troll's limb regeneration with their regeneration stat, using a formula similar to the resists formula, so that each point of regen = 1% faster regeneration or so(so 100 regeneration = half the delay for wound/limb regeneration, 300 regneration = one quarter the delay, etc). That's still not very powerful; the regen spell is probably 10 times as fast as troll regeneration as it is, which would require 900 regeneration for the trolls innate regeneration to simulate(your 899th and 900th regeneration will cost you 449 points each, the 897th and 898th will cost you 498 points each, etc, so chances are no one will ever get their troll's regen as fast as a regenerate spell)

You might also want to give trolls a percent-based bonus to their regeneration, perhaps something like 25%. For example, if a troll epicbuys 4 regen, they get an effective 5 points. If they epicbuy 8, they get an effective 10 points.

[Nuitari]

for the hospic 25% HP increase

does this 25% act on the base HP or the total HP(including equ)
Also, if the player keeps on epiccing to gain HP, this 25% would then become larger and larger right with every epic level right?

it is based on a characters level based HP.

Does that include epic-level based HP? It really should include all hp, but I suppose non-epic- level-based and epic-level based would make it at least somewhat useful(even my character only has 2000-something base hp, that's something like 625 hp bonus at e1000....13500 enchant space yay). If it's only your non-epic-level-based hp, it's only 225ish hp and nothing more than a gimmick(ogre gets almost that much hp as a bonus, and starsigns are generally far more powerful than races).

Also, the VAST majority of a players' effective hp comes from heal spells. In reality, a character with 3000 hp is going to take tens or hundreds of thousands of damage to kill because he/she will be healing herself/himself whenever she/he is damaged. Each heal spell adds about 500 hp, which the hospic isn't going to give a bonus to, so when all is said and done, a character effectively has something like 50,000 hp(just pulling a number out of the air, it really depends on the length of the battle), only 3000 of which is their hp stat. If hospic gives a 25% bonus to the half of that 3000 that comes from levels, it's giving you a 375 hp bonus out of 53,000 hp, which is less than 1%.

[lingolas]

I like to make a few suggestions:

1. make the hospic 25% HP bonus includes all HP except for for HP from equipment. This would include epic base HP.

2. HP regeneration for trolls the current patch is not fast enough making them nearly useless during pvp or pve bosses. They are however somewhat useful when a player invests many many epic points on regeneration(about 50). I am not pushing for a faster for HP regeneration, but I just want to accentruate the fact that they have little purpose.

3. Limb regeneration is not fast enough for a player to notice any difference. If you examine closely, almost everysingle race can regenerate almost instantly if they have enough body complexity. This means that pretty much all races can regenerate body limbs instantly. Not to mention, the regeneration spell regenerate every single limbs that was lost. A troll's regeneration on the other hand can only regenerate only one limb at a time at a very slow rate. From experience, my limbs usually regrow long after I was dead. A comparison shows that a troll's limb regeneration serves little purpose for trolls because everyone else can regenerate faster and more efficiently.

My recommendation is this:
*Keep Hp regeneration as current. This way they remain practically useless unless a player really want to invest epic points in this area.
*Increase the rate of limb regeneration significantly
*If you choose not to increase limb regeneration rate for trolls, have the regeneration spell only regenerate one body part per cast.

[lingolas]

lingolas wrote:

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+5 Attack and + +5 Attack ratings are the same thing right?

[Eomer]

I like to make a few suggestions:

1. make the hospic 25% HP bonus includes all HP except for for HP from equipment. This would include epic base HP.

I agree with this suggestion of lingolas.

[Celeborn]

Does that include epic-level based HP? It really should include all hp, but I suppose non-epic- level-based and epic-level based would make it at least somewhat useful

it is both basic + epic. gear is ignored (mainly due to technical reasons).

[Celeborn]

lingolas wrote:

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+5 Attack and + +5 Attack ratings are the same thing right?

+5 Attack is the same as +5 Attack, yes.

[Celeborn]

My recommendation is this:
*Keep Hp regeneration as current. This way they remain practically useless unless a player really want to invest epic points in this area.
*Increase the rate of limb regeneration significantly
*If you choose not to increase limb regeneration rate for trolls, have the regeneration spell only regenerate one body part per cast.

Changes to regeneration:
Troll Limb regeneration regenerates 1 wound per regeneration event. Starsign regeneration regenerates 2 wounds per regeneration event. (so if you have both it regenerated 3 wounds per regeneration event).

[Celeborn]

Ok, here ends the tweaking of racepatch. the caretakers and I will be working on the finishing touches and maybe it'll open up.... WITHIN TWO WEEKS! *cackle*

[lingolas]

does the comet's 25 magical resistance stackable with thrall's magical resistance?

[lingolas]

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Thrall 
hardy planar slaves with superior survival instincts. 
Slaves to outerworldy beings your ancestors have been bred for several dozen generations. Your character is the end result of many years of selective or experimental breeding. Intended for planar mining, the Thrall are left on planes to fend on their own, occasionally visited and 're-educated' by their masters. You are an uncommon Thrall. Maybe your master has forced you to do more wordly missions, maybe you escaped or maybe your master is no longer alive. Whatever the case, Alora is an alien but easy place for you to survive. 
+2 str, +2 dex, +1 int, +2 con, -2 cha, 
abil

at the end of the Thrall's description, i believe you accidentally deleted the +25 restances to all. I hope this is not intentional.

[lingolas]

i notice that lich recieve 9% complexity in divine. is this intentional?

[lingolas]

1. an innate spell does not improve with epic leveling right?

2. +75 blunt means +75% blunt right?

[Quintos]

2. +75 blunt means +75% blunt right?

No, it means +75 resistance points. In the current system, I believe, this would be 75%, but after the combat patch, it will be considerably less.

[lingolas]

if 75 blunt resistance does not mean 75% resistance blunt then what does it mean?

for example. If someone were to hit me with 100 blunt damage. how much damage will be reduced if i had +75 blunt resistance?

[Nuitari]

if 75 blunt resistance does not mean 75% resistance blunt then what does it mean?

for example. If someone were to hit me with 100 blunt damage. how much damage will be reduced if i had +75 blunt resistance?

If that was your ONLY blunt resistance, you would take 57-58 damage, depending on how the rounding works. See this post for more detail:

http://forums.dark-legacy.com/viewtopic.php?t=1033

[Nuitari]

I would like to point out the following issues with the Construct, Lich, and Vampire ancestries, as well as any other ancestry/race/starsign that gives the "undead" or "construct" racial categories:

1. Undead are immune to criticals, except from holy avengers. Constructs are completely immune to criticals
2. Undead- and construct-shaped runes are impossible to get, meaning undead and constructed players will get 1/2 strength buff spells and undead will get 1/2 strength healing spells, which is a HUGE handicap. "Heal" being capped makes this especially bad; without a race rune, a players' heal is capped at 1/2 the normal value.
3. Undead can be instantly killed by turn undead, which means that any battle between any number of undead players and a higher-level cleric or paladin will result in the undead players instantly dying
4. Undead and constructs automatically succeed on all fortitude, saves, making fortitude save useless for them and making several spells useless against them

Suggested fixes:

1. I don't think this needs fixing. Criticals aren't a large part of battle anymore, so this isn't an overwhelming advantage. Also, this would make paladins' ability to critical undead somewhat useful; it's virtually worthless currently. From what I understand, construct characters are intended to be critical-immune, so that part doens't need fixing.

2. Enable players to soulbind undead and constructed creatures. Either animation as undead forces a soul to inhabit the body(the original soul or otherwise), or the soulbind spell captures whatever animating force. Constructs either have a similar animating force or some elemental or spirit forced to inhabit the body and animate it; this can be captured by soulbind(instead of "a zombie's soul is captured..." "a zombie's animating force is a captured...", analogous to "elf is DEAD" vs "zombie is VANQUISHED" vs "pawn is DESTROYED")

3. Change turn undead from instakill vs lower-level undead to direct, unresistable or divine damage based on the level and charisma modifier of the user to undead of any level.

4. Remove automatic fortitude success from undead and constructs. Give undead or constructed mobiles high fortitude saves, and give starsigns/races/ancestries that change racial type to "undead" or "construct" a constitution or fortitude save bonus(I recommend constitution over fortitude, especially for undead)

[Isabelle]

is this from you testing it, or just talking theory?

i was not able to use turn when i was testing undead races

In regards to other points, sure, you may not be able to put a 'undead' rune in your heal spell to heal yourself, but an opponent can't put one in their distort or arrow prism either.

But i do understand the dilemma. I'm not disagreeing with it.