[14-01-2005] Codeport Mining patch: Request for comments

[Celeborn]

For people wondering where their notes went: I use the codeport forum as my personal workdesk to get player input on outstanding issues and features under review. I like to keep it focussed

Outstanding issues, open for discussion:
- Mining under lava. Any ideas how to handle lava?
- Encounters are currently triggered by walking around or mining questionmarks on the map. To have some encounters, I just plugged in some random ones that normally pop elsewhere on the map. There are two kinds, small and large encounters. Do they feel ok?
- Think up (N) Colorful cave mushrooms, and describe which viles they can be grounded into.
- Inferno/Freezing mine rooms. Any cool ideas on what to do when you mine into them/stand in them?
- Any ideas on fake materials? (glass that seems like gems until you process them, fools-gold, etc).
- Any of you encounter the earth god or any of the underground artifacts yet?
- Could anyone try to stop flying in the sky above a mining shaft, and see
what happens?
- Any traces of the old mines left?

On how the mining craft works:
I do not plan to change it, other than twaeking gains. My itention with mining was, if you have 100% mining skill, you should be able to dig up considerable amounts of all resources. Specialisation gives you an edge towards mining up specific resources, but it shouldn't be a requirement for profitable mining. Do you personally feel this is the case?

Anyone up for a 'help celeborn check all code' week next week? It seems most cool features implemented before codeport have malfunctioned. @_@

[Isabelle]

what about the mine filling with lava if you suffer a cave in - while under a lava flow


cave mushrooms / extracted
- some can be reagents for specialty poisons (rogue)
- some can be combined with bandages for healing
- some can be smoked? (adding 10 strength for an hour as an effect)?
- some could be addictive if smoked?


inferno / freeze rooms
- both cause damage each round you are in the room, like lava, except no scrapping of equipment
- both could have an additional bonus of stunning you (example - freeze - you feel light headed as your life drains away
and inferno - the overwhelming heat makes you lightheaded, causing you to lose clarity
- at the same time, you could have these rooms be the home of a mean elemental, which doesnt leave the room, and uses the stunning effect to their advantage
(working as a 100% random encounter)

[Isabelle]

tested out when flying over a mine shaft

you fall to the ground, but stop at the shaft, the top floor (alora) counts as the floor, you don't fall further.


if you added the nofloor thing to mine shafts, it might get abused by people digging shafts all around tarsonis area, making deathtraps for newbies without fly

[Celeborn]

if you added the nofloor thing to mine shafts, it might get abused by people digging shafts all around tarsonis area, making deathtraps for newbies without fly

That was the reason I asked. I test a lot as a flying pixie.

[Harax]

- Mining under lava. Any ideas how to handle lava?

I think that there should be a higher chance that Lava will flow in causing the room and possibly others around it to be blocked off by the lava (unusable), but it should also provide better gems and other things because of the high heat around the minerals. You could also cause fire damage unless the player is wearing a fireshield.

[Vogar Eol]

For inferno and cold rooms:

Create heat/cold exaustion messages simular to extreme hunger. Cause them to slowly reduce stats like hunger does (but much more quickly), and eat away mental state, and move points. Do a SMALL ammount of damage from the correct element if not wearing elemental shields (would actually make the elemental shields useful)

Mining in such rooms would cause you to be come weakened, start to halusinate, and eventually lose all your move points so you could no longer mine. The cold/fire damage should just be enough to be really annoying and not enough to be fatal in a couple minutes.



For mining near lava:

Make the rooms inferno rooms. No need for actual lava flow.



Mob encounters in the mine:

Consider that there might not be as many directions to run while in the mine. As such losing a tracking monster should be harder. However, consider that and make the monsters a bit weaker then the normal map counter-parts.



On mushrooms:

I have a really large book on mushrooms of the world. Just give me time to flip through it and make a good posting. I will add a bit of fantasy for some spice. (ish a vet of rogue-like games)

[weems]

I actually would LIKE to see traces of the old mine left. Just the upper part, the part that has copper. Reason for this is that no matter how much copper is in the new mines, it still wont be as easy to get as it was in the old mines...And I feel that copper SHOULD be easy to get, just as easy as it is on the mainport right now. So leaving in the copper portion but no other would be beneficial.

On how the mining craft works: I'm not sure if it's wise to change it at this point unless consider thought went into reimbursement O.O...So many people (including me) have put months into it. I would hate to see my effort erased. But on a purely logical viewpoint, I agree with you.

Heh. I'm completly open to help you as much as I'm able...Which is every day after school, I usually get home at around 3:30 EST, and go to bed somewhere between 12:00 and 2:00.

[Isabelle]

as for the old mine, perhaps we can put a theme to it
BUT, strip out most of the stuff that loads in it. (not all, keep basic metals intact? - at lower pop rate?) (no gems)

and a quest
or, multiple quests, which spawn items depending on the quest # the player is working on.

so dwarven miner Flagengraf in tarsonis says, hey, i lost my lucky mining pick from a cavein somewhere on the X level, please retrieve it.
player gets to X level, and has a random chance of finding the item

player not doing the quest would have 0 chance of finding the item


maybe the theme is some undead thing, where an npc wants the player to kill X # of liches, and X # of rock elementals to help rid the mine of the evil inhabitants.

if completed, then player may get another quest to kill a higher level creature at the bottom (if level == whatever)

[Isabelle]

maybe something we can add to encounters

so ok, i make the template mobiles
then i stick them to "mines" at "X" level - or from X to X level spawn locations.

'undead miners' spawning from mine level 2, to mine level 4,
affecting player levels 1 to 30

spawn rate- /very common / common / uncommon / rare

[weems]

so you want to keep the old mines for quests isabelle?

i was just thinking that it ends at copper. cant go down any farther (which is like 300 feet) to keep a steady stream of copper.

[Isabelle]

depends on memory constraints i guess

if memory is an issue, i can do something else, but if its not, then having a 'set place' to point people to, like visit the old mine over in the mining town of tarsonis, and there, do this task - sounds better than, go out into worldmap, dig down, cuz i lost something.

sure it would work, it just wouldnt be very RP ish

and if celeborn does the encounter upgrade thing, then i could add encounters to every level of the thing (within reason)

unless it is coded differently than the new mining code, then nevermind about the encounters.

what about this - assuming we trash the old mine outright, what if certain minerals like bronze, only have a chance of being mineable in certain types of map sectors? Like hilly/mountainous.

Then you could sort of direct your mining (to a degree) to what you were aiming for.

[Vogar Eol]

I personally see nothing wrong enough with the new system to leave the old mine in for any reason. Extensive test ming in the new system has proved bronze is EVERYWHERE and I can fill a port with bronze ore in minutes if I try. Thats a heck of a lot better then the current mine on mainport.

As far as leaving it for quests, why? You can do the same thing saying the quest item is "Somewhere below the mountain range near town X" That effectively could limit the area to about the same size as the old mine.

Why should we restrict resources by terrain on the surface? Just because trees are growing on top doesn't mean there will be certain things deep below. Same for mountains. If the system is not broke, don't fix it.

[Vogar Eol]

I say that mostly because there are a lot of things that still are broke, and need fixing

[weems]

Yes Vogar, minutes because right now its set that you can dig up like hundreds of any given ore type in one hit. Do you seriously think it will stay like that?

[Isabelle]

because it wouldnt work that way, anything you find mining on worldmap, is the same for every single part of it.

but i'm easy, i don't care either way.

but for the mines defence, it's way deeper, and 'currently' it has a set location. (which would be useful in giving players a destination)

if i changed the destination to say, coordinates 233 x 433 the player could just as easily goto 100 x 100 and complete the quest

and, lets say celeborn changed the worldmap, so that coordinates were spot on, and resources were distributed via coordinate, we would then have to give a perfect sextant to everyone in game, or they would never find the destination.

thats the only real point of my discussion, it's currently easy to say, 'go there'
But i'm ahead of myself anyways, because the quest tools i speak of don't exist either.

[Vogar Eol]

Try Citrine and Carnelian. I was having problems getting Garnet to raise too. I think 'difficulty' is set by gem. In short, you need X percent in gem mining to reliably pop the gem, or Y percent in gem mining for a chance to raise percentage. Anyway, the percentage for learning is a bit low on citrine and carnelian. It incredibly low on Garnet.

[Shira]

Concern:

This has happened a couple times: I log onto my alt in the mines and to find that alt on the other side of Alora O.O What's up what that? a bug?

[Dharins]

Just a couple of thoughts after mining for the last few days.


1) Take the map view from 3x5 to 3x3. The person mining can only see the immediate area around them and not 2 spaces away. That way they can follow a claim and not dig toward one that that can see from where they are standing. Maybe then people will worry more about mining an area instead of just spot mining for special ores.

I know certain classes have larger ranges, bu tI still think they're too large, and should be same distance in all dirctions, not further east to west than north to south.

2) Make it more difficult to mine between levels of the mine. The higher levels will still be pretty easy but when they get further down, it takes longer to mine it, or they need to use wood or ore to make the ladders or something. Reason for this, is it seems people are digging straight down, only taking the good ores, then going back to surface, moving a couple of spots, then redigging. They aren't mining the level, they are only mining down to the level. Not saying it's bad, but makes it where people that are there to mine, end up with nothing more often because others have spot mined.

Personally, after thinking a bit more, I think all classes except dwarves and gerps should have a 3x3 sight. Dwarves and gerps have a 4x4, but with a mining advantage...like a small percentage chance bred into them of being able to mine better (able to pull out more ores or gems)

Dhar

[Isabelle]

suggestions/comments on mining -

1) add 'pits' from levels 2 to 8 that work as if theres 'nofloor' and anyone without the fly spell on, will instantly fall to bottom, and either A) use fly to get back out, or B) be forced to mine themselves out
Doesnt need to be common, maybe just a random thing like a cave


2) worldmap encounters were appearing in mines - shouldnt be

[Celeborn]

23/24-01 changes:
Ce + every time you whack at ore, a little ore is lost.
Ce + Common resources are digged up at higher quantities that rarer
quantities.
Ce + On a common success, you mine up 1/5th of maximum resources of one
dig, destroying 4/5th's.
Ce + On a special success, you mine up 1/3rd of maximum resources of one
dig, destroying 2/3rds.
Ce + On a exceptional success, you mine up all resources of one dig.

25-01 changes:
Ce + Less stone destroyed each whack.
Ce + Increased mining learning speed on failure 10 times.
Ce + Increased chance for exceptional or special success. (less
minerals destroyed with high skill).
Ce + Decreased blue diamond repopulation percentage + repopul. patch size
Ce + Decreased Meteorite repopulation percentage + repopul. patch size.

[Hrulgin]

Lava idea:

Have lava work like mine flooding (since the mines are much larger it will not flood all of the mines, only connected free spaces). Lava should do heavy damage (vs fire resistance.) After a time the lava-filled rooms cool down again...and are re-filled with resources (that were in the lava).

[Isabelle]

just a note - had a player telling me they were destroying more resources in their higher mining skills, then their lower.

like if they had 30% in gem mining, they would destroy like nearly all the gems in a dig, but if they had 2% in mitrill mining, they would like rarely lose anything.

but thats all subjective i imagine, and not verified.

[DELETED]

DELETED

[weems]

Celeborn I'm not sure exactly how it's working...But one of the rolls seems to have strange results. Can you look them over?

It seems to be that the higher you are in something, the higher chance you have to destroy it with no gain at all. For example...My 100% gem miner with about 60% obsidian, 30% sapphire, and 10% random gems...

If he mines up jades, he will ALWAYS get one per dig. Same with diamonds, and blue diamonds...But if he mines his own thing, obsidian, he will either mine a few at a time (1 - 3 in one dig), or destroy a bunch at a time without mining any.

The same thing happens with ore mining.

100% Adamantite miner destroys /TONS/ of Adamantite. Maybe this is intended...My only point was that it seems if you aren't in a high percent, you can consistently get one at a time...But if you ARE a high percent, you sometimes dont even get that.

Looks to be just a strange quirk, care to let us know what's going on?

[Shira]

The exact same thing is happening to me:

My gem miner (carn/cit) mines up a series of higher gems with no problem. But I have destroyed numerous of the gems (cit/carn) that I was orginally adept at. I don't have a problem mining up some of the other higher gems - for they aren't abundant and I still like being able to get a few higher gems here and there. But I should get more cit/carn gems on my gem miner.

Also, my ore miner (adept mitrill miner) isn't mining up enough mitrill compared to what I am getting when mining up adamantite/meteorite. Again, I don't mind mining up a few adamantite/meteorite ores here and there, but I should see a more abundant amt of mitrill being mined up since I am adept.
Example: Common case scenario: In one room (big M), I destroy about 34 mitrill ore, and only actually dig up 5-6 ore. I get that much adamantite (5-6) ore as well. Yea, I destory the rest, but that's expected.

Just letting you know that I agree with Weems, the rolls are having strange results.

Thanks