Dark Legacy MUD Forum

trolls as a RACE suck, lingo. I'm quite sure you could kick my ass : P

Wouldn't you like to have racial bonuses that outweigh your racial penalties?

i want whatever that is right suitable for a troll.

I like people to be able to feel the character that they are playing. having advantages that outweight disadvantages sounds good to me, but it's bad for the Mud so i wouldnt want it.

most races have advantages that outweigh the disadvantages, so it wouldn't adversely affect the mud to buff trolls up to the point where being one wasn't a liability.

While I do admit that dwarves are the Master Race, and should likely be down-sized so Pixies and Gnomes can stand a chance......

vogar, there are only two areas in which dwarves outclass pixies and gnomes: mining and coolness.

Alright, I thought it was about time I posted on this topic. Managed to resist a long while, but that other thread just got me to worked up.

Let me begin by saying that I believe Races should not nessacarily be balanced with EACH OTHER, but within themselves. If you compared any ONE races to the 'old human norm' you could say: "Yes race X has such and such a bonus, and such and such a negative. I like humans better, don't need to worry about strengths and weakness" So it is my belief that for every bonus given to a race, an equally strong disadvantage should be given.

However, lets be realistic. A 100% revamping of races likely won't happen. Tweaking on the best and the worst races likely will happen. So these are the changes I would recommend for another try at balancing out the races.

Lets start with Dwarf. Now I know everyone will say "Yeah, cuz you play a dwarf." However, I plan to go aphabetically through the races.


Dwarves as they are have decent utilitarian skills for crafting. This has drawn a heck of a lot of dwarves to the game. However, their only purpose is to craft items. For the most part these item crafters/miners rarely level past 30, fewer reach Avatar, only a handful are Tri-Avatar, and less then that epic. Why? They don't have any combat skills for either magic or melee. For survival in epic, thats a disadvantage.

What needs to be done to dwarves? We don't need to encourage people to become dwarves, we need to encourage them to level their current dwarves. We do this by giving them a little bit of a combat bonus.

Dwarf: Mine Prospecting, Regen while Drunk (its only cute, not useful for combat), 'Feral Rage' like effect while drunk.

I would recommend +0.1 Attack per level (max +5attack), +3 damage every other level (Max +75damage), -1 wis/int every tenth level (max -5) and finially -0.1 mobility per level (max -5 mobility) for the "Drunken Rage"


Now onward to Elf. I would leave them basically the way they are. I like how their magic is specialized into a certain area. However, I would give them one small bonus just to make them slightly more fun to Roleplay. Give them the innate ability to barter for a better price with mobs, like bards can do now. (both selling and buying, however)


Its Gerps next. Almost forgot these little guys. Had to come back and write them in. That says something about their fame, no?

Gerp: Everything they have now, plus Mine Prospecting. HECK, the whole reason they are gerps is they were the dwarves that mined in radioactive mines! Would add a little something to the game to have two mining races anyway, especially when one can eat rocks and the other drinks too much ale.


Time for the infamous Gnome race. What would I do? I would remove all that nasty magic complexity completely and do something simular to elves. Gnomes like to tinker with items and magic, hence they would be very well schooled in Enchantment. They would also know a lot about items (lore). Lastly I feel that the weaker gnomes would all have died out from natural selection during their magical experiments leaving only those with Magic Resistance.

Gnomes: Innate Lore, Magic resistance +1 per level, +20% Enchantment Complexity

Halflings, another one I almost forgot. Whats that say about the race?

Halfling: Good as is. Maybe give innate skill with slings simular to the Phasians down below.


Human's turn now. This will be a long one indeed. I will need to go by starsign of course. The main problem with most Starsigns is that either the bonuses have no use once your Tri-Av and in epic, their negatives strongly out weigh the bonus, or the other starsigns are just SO much better.

Avatar: Favor stays max'ed, easier to become crowned

Beauty: As is, plus innate ability to charm mobs

Clover: Good as is

Comet: -2 pounds weight carriable per level (max -100 pounds) +1 speed every other level (max +25), This would be a perment effect (not activated effect) and would stack with current spells, potions and bard songs. Think 'Speedy Gonzales'.

Cyclone: +90% resist air (doesn't effect resist max), weapons and spell damage BECOMES air damage (A sword might still sever, but it does airnot slash damage), Astral walk for free, -20% resist blunt

Fist: +3 damage per level (Max +150), +1 attack

Furnace: +2 complexity every 10 levels (max +10 complexity), +25% mana cost

Guardian Spirit: halved costs for flee, supplicate, and recall. Also give +10% exp gain, +2 luck, -1 MR ever 2 levels (max -25 MR)

Hospic: Leave as is, and ammend so vamps work with hospic

Landslide: +90% resist blunt (doesn't effect resist max), weapons and spell damage BECOMES blunt damage (A sword might still sever, but it does blunt not slash damage), +2 DamRed per level (max +100), -20% resist air

Moon: forced into Werewolf at night. Regen (limp + HP), DamRed, and HP gain based on the phase of the moon(Closer to full the more they get). For a negative, Werewolf form uses Blood Points, if char gets vamp'ed they instantly die (removing the vampire effect upon slay).

Reed: +3 DamRed per level (max +150), +1 Mobility per 10 levels (max +5), -1 Damage every level (max -50)

Shadow: when activated: Invis -lvl 15, Sneak lvl 30, Hide lvl 40, Passdoor lvl 50. (Max would be Invis + Sneak + Hide + Passdoor at level 50) Negative: Mute when skill is activated (all channels)

Shield: +1 MR every other level (Max +25), +1 all saving throws every 5 levels (Max +10), -10% HP

Sun: +90% resist fire (doesn't effect resist max), weapons and spell damage BECOMES fire damage (A sword might still sever, but it does fire not slash damage), Immune Vampirism, +1 regen in sun per 2 levels (max +25) -20% resist cold

Tower: Ability to tell EXACT location on map (Long and Lat), see 5 spaces farther on map, +0.1 Mobility per 2 levels (max 2.5)

Voids: Immune magic, not able to cast magic, IMMUNE VAMPIRISM (or a mob-potion to cure them), (maybe make a mob-potion so they can regenerate limbs somehow? Maybe could call it "Concoction of glue and staples"?)

Waterfall: +90% resist cold (doesn't effect resist max), weapons and spell damage BECOMES cold damage (A sword might still sever, but it does cold not slash damage), Aquabreath, -20% resist fire


Lizardmen finially get there well earned attention.

Lizardmen: Aquabreath, GREATLY improved Balance (maybe x2 or x3 since they have tails!), Ability to secrete 10 sips of decent poison every 3 hours(a good poison please), +50% poison resist, -50% cold resist (they are cold-blooded after all)

Ogres the misunderstood giants that nobody plays. They have good balance, and are the model (along with Elf) of what a race should be. They just are not as cool as elves. We need to make them cooler.

Ogre: 10% stronger at physical and body magic, +10 HP per level (Max +500), +1 damage per level (Max +50), -50% resist electricity (easily hit by lightning?)


Orcs, I always liked the idea of playing an Orc. Almost made a Tri-av once using this race. Pixies slaughtered him too baddly though

Orc: 10% weaker at magic, Feral Rage whenever they BLEED, no extra damage from berserk or aggressive combat styles

I would also make Feral rage based more off level. Feral Rage is too powerful for lowbie and too weak for Tri-av. If it was on a level-based curve it would be better for game balance. Having it happen whenever your bleeding would help quite a bit more then an HP trigger.


Phasians who needs them anyway? Oh well, might as well balance them too...

Phasians: give them 99% skill max with Blowguns, and +5 attack roll with Blowguns. Also give them a +10% to mind complexities.


Pixies, the evil little imps of the game.

Pixie: +20% magic complexities and innate fly when NOT kinshaped. When kinshaped -0.1 mobility and -0.1 attack per level (max -5). (Why? because sudden change in size would make them clumsy.) -50% air resist (because air attacks would blow them around)

just a quick look, thought i'd mention, lizardmen /do/ have greatly improved balance

Well, from some rather quick testing.... I can't seem to see any difference in a Lizardman's balance. They seem to be the same as dwarves and other races.

I tested by comparing number of lunges till the chars fell down using weapons that lagged for the same length of time. In both cases it was four lunges then a fall to the ground on the fifth.

might be better to make it so that dwarves can use alcohol as HP potions. Also, might want to give dwarves -2x or 3x balance. from my understanding, they have horrible balance.
i disagree. + 5 base AR and 75 damage is a lot of bonus for a triave.


sounds great.
I agree
i agree
bad idea. I'm still shivering at the fact that some races/classes are way faster than others. Maybe it's just me.
i'm not sure about the -20% blunt damage
sounds good but most people dont fight with their fists. This tarsign is useless. Perhaps it should be called something else besides the fist.



lower the 20% air resist to 10% and add -70% water resist.
I understand that -70% is alot, but it's very fair considering you get 90% blunt resist.
perhaps MAJOR HP increase in Werewolf form. also, some MINOR speed bonus and the skill track(only in werewolf form).

what's a Reed?

lower -20% fire to -10% and add -70% electric resist


Lizardmen finially get there well earned attention.
sure they got a tail, but does a tail really result in more balance? i'm not sure on this one, i should do some research on this.
being cold-blooded does not mean that they are resistant to cold. all it means is that they cant warm up. In other words, they are screwed in HOT AND COLD wether. This is why lizards constantly move in and out of the shades because they cant warm up nor cool themselves.

instead of whenever they bleed, make the activation at 50% HP.


not sure what to do with them, but they need some kind of physical damage roll reduction because of their tiny size. i cant imagine a tiny pixie able to do major damage wielding a needle.


Vogar, you forgot trolls.











Here's my wild dream for a pixie(it's unfair that's why it's my wild dream!)
this only apply to pixies fighting in their true form.

a 1 ft pixie vs a 10ft dragon: all of the pixie's physical damages are reduced by 80%
a 1 ft pixie vs a 9ft troll: all of hte pixie's physical damages are reduced by 70%
a 1 ft pixie vs a 5ft human: " " by 40%
a 1 ft pixie vs a 3ft dwarf: " " by 20%
a 1 ft pixie vs a 1ft pixie: " " by 0%

OKAY.............

I honestly just CAN'T believe how some of my ideas were so misread... When I find the time, I really need to debate some of my points better so even Lingolas can understand my logic.

Let me make one thing very clear though.... -50% air resist means that if they recieve 100dmg from an air spell, it does 150dmg. Negative resistances are a BAD thing. I can't believe you misread that Lingolas....

Trolls? Whats a Troll?

trolls are a cool race that no one plays 'cause someone made them suck

y not try something closer to this games base, dnd, everything on there seems pretty balanced, change it to fit dl, but dnd would be a good base, just a thought.

DELETED

let me start by saying that i am in no way a pro at this game or anything and i will say straight up that i hardly know anything about this game even tho ive been on it for almost 3 years now

having said that i think that alot of the things i have read on here have made me have several opinions on several people
mostly what that is saying is that the people who have posted on here have all just been trying to smash on each other instead of trying to help the game become balanced. now i agree with wut weem said in that the complexity is the main problem with why gnomes and pixies seem to be so much more powerful as a whole race. 5% complexiy bonus is more than enough for any race to have because having 20% bonus to complexities just makes them far too powerful of casters compared to others who might have only normal (lets say humans for example)
now i know that humans arent really thought of as a magical class but in many games both mud and games such as warcraft humans are regarded as being capable of being some of the most gifted mages in the world so in that regard every class should be capable of being just as good at magic as any other over time
but one thing that noone is mentioning so far or i may have just missed it is that there is a big deal with balancing the use of melee
pixies as a whole race will never be as physically capable as a human or better yet a troll(mostly cuz i like trolls even if they are underpowered)
yet there are pixies out there who can manage to do more dmg than any of the fighter type classes could do without any spell buffs
and i also read a post made by a certain someone i cant recall the name that said his pixie is now 10 fet 10 inches......that wouldnt make any difference he is still going to be very fragil in the body

in conclusion i believe what we need to discuss more here is both MAGICAL and PHYSICAL balance...... not just magical

ok i would like to say somthing about the gerp race even though mine is only lvl 21 right now. the race is awsome as is for low levels and not sure about high levels yet but is anyone forgeting the absorbing propertys? i think so. you have 60% slash resist and if you keep a few extra mob weapons with you you can have a big bonus. for instance at level 1 i was eating swords and getting like +10 dam roll and +.5 mob that is a verry good bonus, true you have to keep eating weapons and armor but its kinda easy top get the little stuff we use for draining any ways.

Micheal wrote: i have read on here have made me have several opinions on several people mostly what that is saying is that the people who have posted on here have all just been trying to smash on each other instead of trying to help the game become balanced.

Yea, Welcome to the forums.

And I agree, as I have stated before, there are a lot if issues to be addressed, but unfortunately Celeborn can tackle only one or two issues at a time and it WOULD help if players would just come together as one and help him solve the issues at hand. There are quite a few intelligent people on this game who understand the mechanics and have experience playing the game day in and day out. t All have different views based on their experiences, and it would make things a hell of a lot easier if people would put aside their personal differences and simply help Celeborn solve the issues at hand

*holds up a peace sign*

We all know a pixie dungon delver with kick all the races butts

zidane wrote: We all know a pixie dungon delver with kick all the races butts

You do realize that even Souwan admitted that dungeon delver isn't the strongest class, right?

Quintos wrote:

zidane wrote: We all know a pixie dungon delver with kick all the races butts

You do realize that even Souwan admitted that dungeon delver isn't the strongest class, right?

Do you realize that codes change? and souwan his different from me, eq wise and plus the new craft is coming?

zidane wrote:

Quintos wrote:

zidane wrote: We all know a pixie dungon delver with kick all the races butts

You do realize that even Souwan admitted that dungeon delver isn't the strongest class, right?

Do you realize that codes change? and souwan his different from me, eq wise and plus the new craft is coming?

I'm quite aware that Souwan was far stronger than you in near every aspect. I also know that many of the reasons Souwan had for saying dungeon delver is not the strongest class still apply. After code changes, some of these reasons have been amplified tenfold.