Economy Changes - Objects, Crafts and Gold {DRAFT, REV 2}

[Isabelle]

yes, work.. that was hard work to get people to abuse glory pools and give others a thousand glory at a time, so that they could enchant their gear.

thats why we made ancient flags, because things we put in game were abused. PVP glory, abused. Glory Pools abused. OoOoo, look a +5000 hp titan tattoo, sweet, that doesnt imbalance anything..

The game will always continue to evolve as Celeborn wills it, and as we find better ways to handle the game mechanics.

We will undoubtedly add things which may or may not work out as intended, it's part of the process. Dark Legacy is a work in progress, and always will be.

[lingolas]

to Jor

jor wrote:

Code: Select all

With the advent of Epics, which I still to this day claim to be completely FUBAR. Honestly, epics have ruined the entire latter portion of the game. Simply because anyone with lots of time can easily widdle away day-in and day-out in epics, beefing their character to insane heights. 

if beefing up one's character is not measured by time and effort then what should it be measured by? Doesnt it make sense that the more you play (spend time on line leveling) the more powerful you should become?

[Jorelani]

Once upon a time, it took manpower to overcome a boss mob. One had to coordinate a group of people to get a nice item to boost their char in even the slightest way. In other words, it took MORE than just time, but teamwork. And even if you had all the best mob items in the game, you still couldn't solo anything. Even my character (who was uber at one point) couldn't accomplish much alone. I had to have help. We once depended on each other. No longer.

I remember a cross-guild run, BR and Amazons, some 12 of us total, running Exe's brother... and we still suffered deaths. NONE of that happens these days.

Sorry, but 'lets go epic' doesn't appeal to me in the least. There's no imagination left after 50/50/50. The mobs are nearly identical, the levels in the dungeons unimaginative... and you can do it by yourself (albeit slower than with a group).

You're not on a quest to venture across the world and slay the mighty dragon with friends at your side, hoping to come back with something wonderful... it's just garbage. Plain, repetitive garbage.

Using Mario to jump on the 100-man turtle takes time, utterly no skill, just time. And even then, Mario had a time limit so you couldn't keep doing it forever.

[Nuitari]

The "venture across the world and slay the mighty dragon" occurs in quests, which under the upcoming quest system should be at least as common as 12-player supermob runs in the pre-epic days of DL.

If you want challenge on a daily basis, fight other players. Duel in the arena. Enter guild wars. Fight supermobs.

[Jorelani]

PvP on DL has been far from interesting. If I wanted to PvP, I'd PvP on a MUD that plays for keeps. Peaceful vs. peaceful is a complete waste of time.

Guild wars? HAHAHAHA. Read above.

Upcoming quest code? I'm talking NOW. Not in the future. I could claim everything will be ok in the future too, but it doesn't mean it will be. And Exe's brother is a supermob.

[Nuitari]

If you think DL is so bad, go to another mud.

I like epicing, and I enjoy PvP on DL. Guild wars aren't frequent enough, true, but that's our fault, not the Immortals'. They try their best; in fact, Kelryne is holding a free-for-all guild war tournament sometime soon, which should be a lot like good 'ole pvp. If not enough people participate to make the tournament fun....that's our fault, not the Immortals'.

Basically, if you think DL is so bad, go to another Mud. I, and many players, like DL how it is. If you think it sucks, why are you here?

[Jorelani]

yes, work.. that was hard work to get people to abuse glory pools and give others a thousand glory at a time, so that they could enchant their gear.

thats why we made ancient flags, because things we put in game were abused. PVP glory, abused. Glory Pools abused. OoOoo, look a +5000 hp titan tattoo, sweet, that doesnt imbalance anything..

Yeah, forget the fact it took a lotta work to get those. Everyone in the guild worked toward them, and all benefitted. Secondly, you couldn't put more than 100 HP on a lvl 50 item without it possibly going *poof* on you.

Thirdly, crafted items are far more insane, coupled with epic glory which... oooh, let's remove ONE system and put in an even more messed up replacement... all the while taking away from established players.

Sorry, Isa, but I gotta disagree with you on this one. Players these days have nearly 2k more HP than I did, nearly +50% (probably more these days) the DAMROLL, HITROLL, and up to 50 for each stat. Facts speak for themselves.

[Nuitari]

yes, work.. that was hard work to get people to abuse glory pools and give others a thousand glory at a time, so that they could enchant their gear.

thats why we made ancient flags, because things we put in game were abused. PVP glory, abused. Glory Pools abused. OoOoo, look a +5000 hp titan tattoo, sweet, that doesnt imbalance anything.. :P

Yeah, forget the fact it took a lotta work to get those. Everyone in the guild worked toward them, and all benefitted. Secondly, you couldn't put more than 100 HP on a lvl 50 item without it possibly going *poof* on you.

Thirdly, crafted items are far more insane, coupled with epic glory which... oooh, let's remove ONE system and put in an even more messed up replacement... all the while taking away from established players.

Sorry, Isa, but I gotta disagree with you on this one. Players these days have nearly 2k more HP than I did, nearly +50% (probably more these days) the DAMROLL, HITROLL, and up to 50 for each stat. Facts speak for themselves.

Do you have any idea how hard it is to get high epic levels, or high epic level equipment? Now, you work for everything, wheras before you sat on your ass and hoped for a quest or a group to run a supermob with.

[Jorelani]

If you think DL is so bad, go to another mud.

I like epicing, and I enjoy PvP on DL. Guild wars aren't frequent enough, true, but that's our fault, not the Immortals'. They try their best; in fact, Kelryne is holding a free-for-all guild war tournament sometime soon, which should be a lot like good 'ole pvp. If not enough people participate to make the tournament fun....that's our fault, not the Immortals'.

Basically, if you think DL is so bad, go to another Mud. I, and many players, like DL how it is. If you think it sucks, why are you here?

I don't play DL anymore, which I've already stated. Because of imbalances within the system, which is the topic of discussion here.

I don't kiss butt. I don't respect those who do. I'll say what I want, when I want, how I want.

You like epic-ing because it's easy for you to accomplish. It panders to the lazy player, which is why the IQ average of the playerbase has gone down over the past couple of years.

I don't think DL is bad. It's simply skewed. The game itself has much potential which isn't being reached. Also, I never said I think it sucks. Learn to pay attention.

Do you have any idea how hard it is to get high epic levels, or high epic level equipment? Now, you work for everything, wheras before you sat on your ass and hoped for a quest or a group to run a supermob with.

Epic isn't hard. Period. It's FAR easier to be successful in this game than it was back in the day... GAMES AREN'T SUPPOSED TO BE EASY.

[Nuitari]

*cough*

And we thought Lingolas was the biggest troll around.

[Jorelani]

*cough*

And we thought Lingolas was the biggest troll around.

Not only do you pick a fight with me, which I wasn't even addressing you in the first place (rude) and now you have to say something negative about another as well.

[Kiasyn]

I don't play DL anymore, which I've already stated. Because of imbalances within the system, which is the topic of discussion here.

If you dont play, then how the hell would you have a balanced opinion on the system? The notes on the forums dont explain everything.

Epic isn't hard. Period. It's FAR easier to be successful in this game than it was back in the day... GAMES AREN'T SUPPOSED TO BE EASY.

If a game is too hard, some people will just give up heh

[Jorelani]

If you dont play, then how the hell would you have a balanced opinion on the system? The notes on the forums dont explain everything.

If a game is too hard, some people will just give up heh

First point: You're right, how can I? Simple. It's conceptual. One only needs to know the basics in order to know if something works in the end. It's mechanics, not specifics. I don't have to remain active to know something's not right.

Second point: True. But then again I no longer play because it did become too easy. As did a LOT of other players, not just myself. But I rather have a challenge. If I wanted to level grind or some other mundane activity... I'd give up games entirely and play 'real life'. What's the point of a game if you can't be challenged?

[Kiasyn]

First point: You're right, how can I? Simple. It's conceptual. One only needs to know the basics in order to know if something works in the end. It's mechanics, not specifics. I don't have to remain active to know something's not right.

Who says you even know the basics?

Second point: True. But then again I no longer play because it did become too easy. As did a LOT of other players, not just myself. But I rather have a challenge. If I wanted to level grind or some other mundane activity... I'd give up games entirely and play 'real life'. What's the point of a game if you can't be challenged?

Yeah, but it has to be a balance between too easy and too hard, heh.

[Jorelani]

Who says you even know the basics?

Yeah, but it has to be a balance between too easy and too hard, heh.

1. Ha.
2. Duh.

[Kiasyn]

3. Cheese
4. Bacon

[Tuler]

I'm not sure I understand completley.

In order to enchant something you need a token. You get this token from sacrificing something of the same level..... does that include crafted eq? If it doesn't, and I want to enchant an e500 piece of eq..... how would I go about doing so? Perhaps the eq in the goblin epic? Somethign like that? *confused*

[Zidane]

I like epicing, and I enjoy PvP on DL. Guild wars aren't frequent enough, true, but that's our fault, not the Immortals'. They try their best; in fact, Kelryne is holding a free-for-all guild war tournament sometime soon, which should be a lot like good 'ole pvp. If not enough people participate to make the tournament fun....that's our fault, not the Immortals'.

i have to agree too i like epiccing and some mining for raw orez and gems to improve a character it may take a long time then again if you play alot you can improve your character in no time at all

[Zidane]

During that period I will be announcing what items will fall under what item class, so you can distribute bind-on-touch items amongst your friends/shops/whatever before they bind. Also, during that time you might want to empty your shops and citadels of items, since values will shift considerably. I will give plenty of warnings about this.

When are you going to open the bport and announing in the game on the tarsonis noteboard?

[Vogar Eol]

With all due respect to EVERYONE involved.... that whole topic listed was hijacked by Isabelle.

With all do respect to Isabelle, she is the kind of person who would make a voider pixie mage permadeath, and insist on only fighting with her hands. She is ultimate hardcore person.

In general, her concepts will make a challenging game. They will make a very challenging game. A game so challenging it will scare a lot of people. Scare them so much they lose interest. Atleast, thats if they are not tempered in concept slightly.

Most if not all benefits of binding can be created by either putting a destruction timer on a weapon, by limiting the length of a binding, and/or both.

Once again, all due respect is intended to all involved.

Sorry if this post seems out of place here, it was from another topic.

[Celeborn]

With all due respect to EVERYONE involved.... that whole topic listed was hijacked by Isabelle.

With all do respect to Isabelle, she is the kind of person who would make a voider pixie mage permadeath, and insist on only fighting with her hands. She is ultimate hardcore person.

In general, her concepts will make a challenging game. They will make a very challenging game. A game so challenging it will scare a lot of people. Scare them so much they lose interest. Atleast, thats if they are not tempered in concept slightly.

Most if not all benefits of binding can be created by either putting a destruction timer on a weapon, by limiting the length of a binding, and/or both.

Once again, all due respect is intended to all involved.

Sorry if this post seems out of place here, it was from another topic.

Thanks for the repost.

Isa doesn't make coding policy, her opinion is weighed just like everybody elses. I usually discuss these things with her as she gives me a good gauge on how to do things build wise. Plus she's a very hard worker when I need some help.

Binding isn't Isa's idea. It isn't mine either. But its one of those ideas that, when you've seen it in action, solves such a wide range of issues you just have to utter 'DOH, why didn't I think of that'.

You do not have to worry about accidental binding, as the game refuses to equip unbinded bind-on-wear items when you havent typed 'wear item sure' on first wear. Also, i've been pondering a middleman trade between player option, so players can examine items fully before completing the trade.

As far as damaging beyond repair and unbinding-after-time are concerned, they do not fit my reasons. Any sufficient alternative would have to prevent an item from re-entering the economy after an item has been used, whilst still allowing people to keep using their item as long as they like.

[Nuitari]

This is purely harmful to players, it accomplishes little, and it is not wanted by the people it supposedly benefits(us).

The binding change will affect only players, not immortals, who don't play(making the occasional void mage permadeath that never makes it high epic level doesn't count). Not only are we players the only ones who will be affected, and hurt, by this, we are the ones who actually play DL and have a good idea of how this will affect the game. You(Celeborn) programmed DL and know how you designed things to work, you may watch DL and see how things appear to work, but we *play* DL and know how things DO work.

Making everything bind is not just a small, annoying change. It is a crippling one that will make DL a lot less fun, will makg a lot of people unhappy, and will waste a lot of time that we have already invested in the game. Many of the players you hurt with this patch will likely leave, and the rest of us(including me) who stay will be at the very least unhappy and quite possibly angry at you. Many alternatives have been suggested, I'm sure one of them will let you accomplish whatever goal you are after without causing such problems. Why do you insist on binding, and refuse to reconsider?

[Nuitari]

By the way, I dug this link up from an old forum post here

http://www.memorableplaces.com/mudwimping.html

Remember that?

[Vogar Eol]

Yet a bound item can be sold to a shop? If not, then its value is effectively zero? If bound why would it sell to an npc if no one would buy it? NPC's buying useless junk really degrades the game. You should ONLY be able to sell weapons to a weapon merchant, not any shopkeeper you find...

Binding like this will kill legends and artifacts. I for one have some weapons and armours I have had many owners and a lot of history. Years from now there will be no stories talking about a mighty weapon and how it changed hands. There won't be tales of swords like Vorpal, or Defender and the many characters that wielded them and the eventual loss of the items.

Kindness to a newbie will be harder to come by. You can't just give them old gear you don't have a use for. You have to give them brand new gear. I hate to say it, but people aren't that generous.

[Nuitari]

Yet a bound item can be sold to a shop? If not, then its value is effectively zero? If bound why would it sell to an npc if no one would buy it? NPC's buying useless junk really degrades the game. You should ONLY be able to sell weapons to a weapon merchant, not any shopkeeper you find...

I think you'll be able to "salvage" items for a pitifully small amount of resources. Personally, I think salvaging is a good idea, and if it is balanced and made to give fair returns, it would be a much better solution to the problems that binding supposedly fixes, with none of the drawbacks.