Dark Legacy MUD Forum

Okay, I've read most of what was posted, excluding the posts that were too long. Now here is my say.

I like the JGs having to headbutt or whatever to jail.

I'd rather have deadly guilds, things like that. Someone has to join a deadly guild to become deadly. This may be fun.

I like the config option very much, but make it so you have to wait x hours before you actually change.

I don't like having eq drop. I wouldn't mind fighting one another in the streets and such, but I don't want to loose eq that it took me forever to get, my tattoo, or crafted eq that I cannot reproduce (crown effected eq, or eq that is very high level with a very rare craft)

PK is good, but it can be abused.. I think it would be harder, and abused less if there was no eq drop.

I don't believe there has to be loot to make PK cool.

There are a number of other possibilites. One of which Isa touched upon, and that is controlling certain aspects of the MUD, such as the mine and whatnot. If you give PKers SOMETHING to fight for, they will.

Every deity on this MUD has a straight-out enemy. One they're, by nature, repelled by. This can be elaborated on as well. Have certain PK guilds fight for their deity to gain favor and prestige in the name of their god.

what an exciting idea. this can be extended to other areas. This idea would promote guild members and various guilds to work together.

Also make it so that if you leave the area you lose the gems for obvious reasons.

I've had some time to absorb what I can out of all the lengthy posts and feel that I should input my opinions:

1) You cannot, absolutely cannot, have PK on a MUD without a loss of something. If you're unable to part with an item or two or anything on your character, then simply vault it or put it on an alternative character. If you can't, then don't PK. PK is not PK without the loss of a valuable item, that being material, physical, or emotional. A config +deadly would be nice in this aspect, in that it gives people a choice in if they want to PK or not.

2) There should be a level limit set on the PK, where you don't have people that are e400 going around slaying anyone that's level e100. It's unfair in many aspects, and while most people PK to loot and use items they've looted, an e100 cannot use an e400 piece of eq. The only thing they can do is sell it, because realistically they won't be able to reach that level any time soon. And to sell an item that you've looted from someone takes away any honor you'd have as far as obtaining that item in a victory against someone hundreds of levels above you.

3) City wars would be awesome. People can be born into factions, based on their class or race or sex, and it can change when they're guilded. But, you must then have guilds who belong to certain factions based on several things...like where the hamlet is located, what hamlet the citadel is located in, what the theme of the guild is, etc. This could allow for the hiring of assassins to take out people, whether the assassin is a mobile or a player. I think it would be pretty simple to code in an assassin mobile, mostly programs mind you (with a little bit of code to keep it going).

4) Setting a timer of the same length you would normally serve for murdering someone would be sufficient. This will give everyone time to cool off and if one person is still offended by the previous actions of another, then there's enough time for the person to prepare to be attacked again.

5) Deadly guilds = VERY COOL. While guild wars are nice in that it promotes unity where defending one's honor is concerned, not all people in a guild want to be in a guild war. Only those who are strong enough to fight in a guild war with someone of a higher level are the ones who are suggesting even the slightest at a guild war. What about the lowbie people or the ones who just aren't interested? You're basically forcing someone into something that's going to turn them away from certain aspects of the game. It's best to leave it up to that person to decide whether he/she/it wants to participate in a guild war. With a deadly guild, you cut that possibility out all together. People will join a deadly guild to PK and I think, in turn, it will promote both RP and guild unity.

6) JGs - Being a JG, I have a hard enough time trying to jail someone on my e7 character without either having to flee or someone else come in and help me out with the actual jailing. That's more than enough resistance for me to tolerate, and I believe that if you put in any more resistance, the newest epic characters are going to refrain from attempting to apply to the council because they won't be able to subdue or wear anyone down enough to put them in jail. Either make the subdue strong enough in code for a JG or don't do it at all.

7) EQ Drop in PK - This is why you PK...to gain something that someone else has spent time on. If you don't want someone to loot an item that you so highly regard as being the most awesome thing you have on you, then don't wear it. Like I said before, PK is not PK without some kind of reward, and to some, a physical trophy like EQ is a reward enough to them. There's no abuse when it comes to looting anything from a corpse. If you feel so strongly about having all your stuff looted, then set up a limit as to what you can loot based on your level and/or class...put a determining factor in it. But I feel that if you have no loot in PK, it's not worth doing at all. Sometimes the glory of having a person's name on your kill list is fine, but most people want more. Ask the people who PK on a deadly MUD or on a MUD where pkill is a huge option. They'll more than likely tell you that they PK for the items.

Taking over cities - I'm all for this! Designate a certain city for a faction, syndicate, etc...then stick a flag within an extremely-hard portion of the city that someone has to obtain in order to take it over. But before they dp, they must get rid of anything that keeps them from getting there. Perhaps have the city be a hometown based on a class or race? I think it would be better, both for RP and for fun, that if there were hometowns. If not, then a certain city like Tarsonis, Freeport, Midian, Tyr, etc would work. These cities are usually stocked anyways, and the faction/syndicate/group that controls it can control who comes in and out, and how much the resources within the area are obtained for. The areas are pretty well designated by level range and such, maybe put something in there to warn the newbie players that they're entering an area controlled by so-and-so and with that, there's a certain fee or item they have to either pay or perform to pass through. I would have included guilds, but unless you make it a requirement that the guild has to be active all the time, having a guild control the city wouldn't work.

Very nice input from everyone

I had an idea like the factions thing but it involved territories. I seem to remember issy mentioning something about different nations or something like that.


I like the idea of "tieing yourself" to a city or nation, and then perhaps have neutral ground that the two sides can fight over. For example:

3 continents: the continent of Alora, Whateverthename, and Anonymousland

Now Alora and Anonymousland are at war, and Whateverthename is a giant battlefield with its own cities and resources and leveling areas.

Now, the cities and territories and resources in whateverthename can be controlled by whoever has the most guys in the area/fights off the opposition. If a city is controlled by a particular side for over 2 weeks IRL, they get to change the name of it or something.

And you can even go into the other continents, liek Anonymouslanders can go over to Alora and level in those area's if they want, but they are under the risk of being ambushed by everyone and everything in there, and no matter how many people are in Alora fighting off the alorians, that place will always belong to Alora.

And as for territories: I think players should be able to stake out territories and maybe, if they have a big enough territory and enough gold, can found an NPC city which will grow and bring them in profits. And anyone entering that players territory is subject to attack if the player owning it chooses. For instance:

Chieg is travelling through the continent of Anonymousland and he wants to get from point A to point B. But unfortunatel, Avestifal's territory happens to lay in between these two points, and instead of going around avestifal's territory, he decides to meander THROUGH it. And avestifal happens to be hanging out in his territory and doesn't want Chieg poking around in it.

Avestifal types:

Territory Warn Chieg

Chieg receives a warning from Avestifal that he's entered Avestifal's territory and is not desired company.

Chieg decides that it's not too much farther to the other side of avestifal's territory and continues to walk on through.

Avestifal types

Territory Hostile Chieg

Chieg receives a message that Avestifal has declared him to be an enemy and Chieg is in danger of being attacked.

Chieg then decides that discretion is the better part of valor and high-tails it from Avestifal's territory, escaping just before Avestifal catches him.

I like the territory idea. I think territory should be based upon amount of PKs that have taken place there. Whomever has claimed the most lives within an area's boundaries claims said piece of land, and gains gold for every real-time hour it is under his/her control as a bonus (which is automatically transferred to their bank account). This would definitely add some spice. Territory ownership would expire after a certain amount of time if no further killing takes place. It'd be interesting to see someone want a piece of land, and to 1on1 the current owner for control.

I think there should be strictly deadly guilds. I have one sitting there doing nothing. I'd like to see it in use, even if not by myself. Guild Wars are useless, as is jailing.

I also think having rather conservative level restrictions on PvP is a good idea. Like Kariyana said, an e400 couldn't beat up on a lowly e100. It just wouldn't be fair. I don't think PK should happen before level 25, and a tri-av couldn't touch a single class av. There are enough players on this MUD to keep things interesting.

A PK cannot accept spells from a peaceful. At all. Trade over auction, or shop items may be used. Otherwise, I think items should either be deadly-only or peaceful-only, depending on who touched them first. If PK were open, people would use their peacies to item farm for their deadlies, and it'd be unfair to the newbie PKs who start with nothing.

I agree, nothing that entered a peacies inventory, via portal or bag, or was picked up by a peacie controlled mobile (via charm, elemental or whathaveyou) should be allowed to be touched by a deadly, and vice versa.

placing level restriction to protect newbies may sound like a good idea, but i dont think it is that simple. If you are a newbie you will most likely stay peaceful anyway, unless you're one of THOSE newbies. Even if a newbie is killed by an e200 character, his equ would be pretty much useless to the e200 character, and it probably doesnt take much to remake those equ. I'm not saying this because i can make alot of equ, but i'm saying this because alot of the currently equ are dirt cheap. It takes little effort to raise enough money for lets say an e100 ring. On the other hand, an e200 or e500 player has alot to loose. By loosing even one piece of equ can be devastating. I don't know if this apply to everybody but it certainly applies to me. Most of my equ are are either jades or diamonds ranging from e300-400. They take litterally millions to make.

How can you determine if someone is a newbie or not? You can't use levels because levels are not really a very good estimate of power. An e1 pixie oracle can easily murder an epic 100 acrobat. an e200 player is probably not very far from an epic 400 player if not stronger in some cases. Just because you are at a high level it doesnt mean that you are actually wearing equ your level. Same thing applies to avatar and dual avartars. It has alot to do with your classes and race. As you can see, placing restriction based on level may not be a good idea. Power does not necessary reflect levels.

PK does not have to result in looting a piece of equ. As Karyana has pointed out, it can be a "mental" thing. PK can be satisfying knowing that you are able to defeat someone. The honor and pride to me is good enough. One way to keep record of this is to reintroduce scalping. However, this time have the scalps specify the scalper or the killer. for example:

a scalp of lingolas scalped by Luarana
or something like "Token of Pk"

a Pk token depicting "Laurana slaying Lingolas"
all this is in addition to the PK rating.
Kill someone who's rating is way higher than your and you'll get lots of points. You can only recieve points from each person once. This is to prevent Kazin from hiring organic punching bags to raise his rating.
Kill a noob who's rating is way below your and your rating will barely budge.



to Joralani,

how is jailing useless?

Personally i think that jailing does deter crime. a small number of people who repeatedly commit crimes are the exceptions. They would commit crime with or without jailing. They will probably continue to commit crime with whatever new system that you we may implement.

I do agree that guildwars are a bit useless at the moment due to the fact that there's no shining light at the end of the tunnel. so you have someone or some group of people and have decided to declare war. Then what? what do you do after months of kiling? what's gained? Of course, we assume that the other guild accepts the war in the first place.

About jailing: those who want to cause trouble, will cause trouble. No matter how much you jail them, or even ban them. If they want to piss off everyone on the MUD, they will, and will continue to do so as long as they are still given an oppurtunity.

The whole newb/PK restrictions thing. You have a point, and I won't argue with you on it because you're right.

But look at it this way:
1. No one can cheat their way to the top.
2. It cuts down on abuse.
3. Gets rid of a lot of whining ahead of time.

Lingolas: I've read your posts, considered the points within them, and the alarming trend shows that your main concern is for you and you only. While you do express concerns that can be valid for other people, there's plenty of instances where your disagreement involves concern for only yourself. I figured with a person of your level and stature, you'd be able to at least give up a little something in order to make the entire situation work. We basically all are because we don't have the best eq, aren't the best class, aren't at the highest level...most of us, from what I gather, are looking at this on a whole for everyone, not just ourselves. You, on the other hand, seem to be out there for yourself.

"If you are a newbie you will most likely stay peaceful anyway, unless you're one of THOSE newbies."

How do you know? And what are THOSE newbies? Being a bit more explanative in your statement might clarify to those of us wondering who this mysterious newbie is. Alot of people will see PK on DL and actually might come here with the full intent on making a deadly character with some skill. So you're basically saying that all newbies who come to a MUD with a PK option go peaceful right away? Then that totally cuts out every single person who plays on a MUD for deadly PK.

"I'm not saying this because i can make alot of equ, but i'm saying this because alot of the currently equ are dirt cheap. It takes little effort to raise enough money for lets say an e100 ring."

Yet again, all about you. What constitutes what's something worth? What you put out there as a price? There's alot of people who value things alot more than you do, and still manage to make a living by charging 200% less than you do. Greed isn't a determining factor in how people survive, people have done so without having tons of cash or tons of resources. And it's certainly not what judges an economy. The economy is based on several factors, not just by one person who has nothing better to do than outcharge a newbie player for an item that that person is going to end up getting from someone else in the end. You are why people sell things for cheap and make it themselves, and you wonder why people hold you in the respect of being a ripoff And you may be right, it might not take alot of effort, but people do spend their money and/or resources in other areas and usually have a bit of trouble trying to get a high level piece of jewellry. But by then, they've seen how the market is and either spend lots of time finding another source or end up making their own, thus leaving you SOL.

"By loosing even one piece of equ can be devastating. I don't know if this apply to everybody but it certainly applies to me. Most of my equ are are either jades or diamonds ranging from e300-400. They take litterally millions to make."

Losing a bunch of letters and numbers isn't the end of the world. If you're so intense about gameplay in that manner, then maybe you should re-evaluate where you stand as far as being a part of a MUD. Many of us realize, by now, that it's not worth it to get all upset over something that can easily be replaced. There's enough people out there, with enough resources and with decent enough prices, that we can obtain the item again. Like you said before, it's not terribly hard to raise the funds to get the item again, so what's the problem? No one forces anyone to do anything they don't want to do, or forces them to do something that's hard for them to replace. And yet again, all about you. Do you not think of the other people out there that this may or may not affect? If you don't want to PK deadly, then DON'T! Nothing is forcing you to do any of this, good lord! I'm sure that in your vast amount of cash flow and resources, you can always get it or make it yourself. Oh, but wait, you've stated it takes millions to make. Are you high? There's nothing out there that takes that much money to make. If you know the right people and am at the right place at the right time, it's possible to get such a prized item in other ways. Whether you want to believe that it comes from someone other than yourself, that's your problem. Not ours.

I agree that it might be hard to determine who a newbie is, and what factors add into that determination. However, I believe most of us have been around enough now to recognize whose who and what not to get into as far as a battle with someone else. If you play your character well enough, anything can be beaten. Look at how you lost so much to Laurana one day, and she's more than 300 levels below you. Alas, if we see a pixie oracle of a sufficient level, we usually think through and look at how our eq is and our skills are before going into battle. If not, then we abstain and work on getting ourselves either up to or close to that level. And most people usually craft and/or obtain eq at their level, though there are some exceptions. I, for one, usually go every 20 epic levels and craft up new bracers, cuirass, helmet and swords and am in the process of enchanting two new e60 rings, which were given to me as a birthday gift by Sardonyx. If people are really serious about being an active part in PK, then they're going to have to learn to keep their eq as strong and competitive as everyone else. You see it on MUDs where being deadly is an option or is the entire norm, just like on Lands of Aethar. If you aren't up to specs, no matter your class, with your eq....well then, you're just SOL.

Honor and pride may be enough for some, but what about the others who want something to show for it as far as going past that time in battle? I doubt a scalping would be enough for some people. The only reason that it would be enough for someone of your stature is because, as you stated before, looting a piece of eq that's below your level is useless to you. And yet again, you you you. Someone at level e1 or even lower than that beats up someone a little higher, and feels pretty damn good about it and wants something to show that they got it from that person. Instead of a scalp, it could be a piece of enchanted and/or crafted eq from the person they just killed.

Tell me, Lingolas, how much have you really played a deadly character and on what MUD for how long? Because what you've been stating has basically been based on your peaceful play here on DL. Have you been to a deadly MUD like Aethar? Or a MUD where PK is a big part of life, like old Eclipse, RoD, Dark Nemesis, Realm of the Ancients, etc? I suggest actually growing a pair, going to one of those MUDs and really see how things are when it comes to deadly PK. And please, provide us with some logged instances where we know it's really you and we'll see how well you know how PK should and should not be on any MUD, let alone on DL.

I think he level sat a deadly that he eq'd with his peacie...could have been someone else though.

My PK idea

Ok lets compare pkill to mkill
If you die to a mob, your eq doesnt drop, so why should it in pkill?

anyway
config +deadly sets you to become pkillin
when you get killed by another player outside of arena its turned off
this is the ONLY time and way it can be turned off...

Kiasyn, that doesn't work very well cause then you get cheesy arse peacies who gather gear for their deadly fighting alts and don't actually PK with their current ones at all. Go read the Cities/Crime syndicate thread.

Who cares?

Well, the people who actually like PK and don't want to see it ruined by someone who's gotten uber without having to worry about PK and then jumping into PK already uber and bragging about how awesome they are.
And no one likes someone who eq's a lvl 30 and a lvl 40 deadly and uber-eq's them with their peacie and has those deadly alts level sit to beat on weak people and then leave when strong people come along. It's sad and cowardly.

So frankly, I care.

I take Kareyanas' last response was a direct attack whether it was intended or not, so i will defend myself and counter attack. I'll try to keep this much civil as possible.


"Lingolas: I've read your posts, considered the points within them, and the alarming trend shows that your main concern is for you and you only."

Posts is plural, I assume that you've read many posts from many topics and have come to his conclusion. Well, this conclusion is narrow minded because not all my posts concern me. However, most of my posts has alot to do with me because i can only speak for myself. How can i argue about something that i have not experienced or have never tried? If you read my posts more carefully you would realize this.



"While you do express concerns that can be valid for other people, there's plenty of instances where your disagreement involves concern for only yourself. "

Redundant of what you said above. A bit contradciting though

"I figured with a person of your level and stature, you'd be able to at least give up a little something in order to make the entire situation work."

Giving up of whatever that I have has nothing to do with with making the "entire situation work." What situation are you speaking of? please clarify yourself.


" We basically all are because we don't have the best eq, aren't the best class, aren't at the highest level...most of us, from what I gather, are looking at this on a whole for everyone, not just ourselves. You, on the other hand, seem to be out there for yourself."

This quote shows that you know little if anything about me. This quote suggests or imply that i have the best equ, the best class, and the highest level. All of which is inacurate. Again, if you study my notes more carefully, you'll see that i argue for everyone. I have came to defend rangers( i have a level 28 rangers that i dont care to play so it isnt for me). I made cases against pixies ( i have a triave magus pixie). I have asked to tweak epic gem gathering, eventhough this perk gave me the most bonuses because my level is high and i get alot of gems. I advocate lowering % gem pop in mines, this will hurt me because i am a serious miner who is constantly looking for gems. In the past i advocated in lowering the stun skill eventhough i am a warrior and the stun skill is my most powerful weapon. I can go on with the list, but it is pointless. I suggest that you read my posts more carefully and if possible check out the old forum.

Now i do admit that i have raised issues that benefit me, but i am just like almost everyone. You exaggerate much of this.



" 'If you are a newbie you will most likely stay peaceful anyway, unless you're one of THOSE newbies.'

How do you know? And what are THOSE newbies? Being a bit more explanative in your statement might clarify to those of us wondering who this mysterious newbie is. Alot of people will see PK on DL and actually might come here with the full intent on making a deadly character with some skill. So you're basically saying that all newbies who come to a MUD with a PK option go peaceful right away? Then that totally cuts out every single person who plays on a MUD for deadly PK. "

first off, i'll clarify myself. when i say "those" newbies, i meant the newbies that are aggressive whether they are experience or not. Those newbies are the ones that will pick fights with other players at level 1. Those newbies are the ones that Joralani talks about in her post on another thread. Those newbies are the ones that came from PK muds and like to pk from the start. Thos newbies are alts of highly experienced players. 2ndly, if you read the quote carefully, it clearly states "most likely" and then you reinterpreted as "...you're basically saying that ALL newbies who come to a MUD with a PK option go peaceful right away?" Now you see how my most likely is twisted into All by you? no further comment on this assult.

"I'm not saying this because i can make alot of equ, but i'm saying this because alot of the currently equ are dirt cheap. It takes little effort to raise enough money for lets say an e100 ring."

"Yet again, all about you."
I wear e100 equ? you need to recheck the high epic list and see who wears epic 100 equ. I certainly don't honey.

"What constitutes what's something worth? What you put out there as a price? There's alot of people who value things alot more than you do, and still manage to make a living by charging 200% less than you do. "

I have written thousand of words on this topic from the old forum, but i will rewrite them again for you. You may ask "what determines a worth?" That's not very hard to answer. This is best if i provide an example.

lets use a carnelian as our example.
Before the noobs flood the mud with similar mentality as your, before the crafted equ, before all this, there was two rings that was valuable to triaves. Set rings and Rings of the Ivory. These rings valued anywhere from 100k to 250k. Mostly declined when Arl flooded the market with them and completely went out of style when demetrious and various other crafters adept rings. If people were willing to pay 100-250k for a ring that is so and so quality. Why can't a ring that at least 5x as good be the same price or slightly a bit more expensive? A crafted ring certainly requires alot more effort to get. It takes alot of comitment and effort for a crafter to craft each ring. It may not seem much but behind that 100% is weeks if not months of mining and crafting. For this crafters should sell their equ at whatever the price they feel reflect their effort and hardwork. The crafter doesnt force anyone to buy his/her equ. So why are you and some other making judgements? No one force anyone to buy any equ. If the equ are too expensive for your taste, you simply go find a better deal. Making judgements and insults shows little respect.

Now about prices, how much is too much? I assume that the market in Dark Legacy is a capitalistic market. You simply follow the theory of supply and demand. If you cant find a seller you drop your prices until you can find a seller. If you have too many people that want a common good then you raise the price to maximiz your profit. If it takes you 1 hr to mine, to gether resources, to craft a single ring. That ring should at least reflect 1 hr of money gathering. I understand that key money areas have been lowered in cecent months, but if you at least explore a bit and have some decent knowledge of where to get money from the game you will realize that 40k for a ring isnt so bad. Avatar equ should reflect hard work. You can not expect 15k for a ring that takes more than 15k to make not including labor. This is the mentality that many newbies have, and i have absolutely no remorse for them. If i give out free equ to those that work hard and value the hard work that a crafter put into. Ask around the mud and you'll see.

for those that don't know how to make money here is a few tip:
Ancient cavern = 4.75k repop rate vary, collect lanterns/human shirts
Forsaken city = 5k make sure to collect the amulet and the robe
Xchan city = around 15k, depending on who you can kill. Remember to collect equ and sell it the nearby shop. Pop rate vary

So far i have mention only 3 pleaces. Only pop cycle you can gain at least 20k. a pop cycle doesnt take too long. In 1 hr you can gather around 100k depending on how hard you work. This is a newbie guild to gettting money. if you are an advanced player you can get more money from fighting super mobs (ask quintos, he'll teach you). There are other places on the mud and many areas that i dont know about.

If Aceas can collect 650k for a set of equ and is happy with it, no one should complain. You can't expect everything to be given to you or sold for dirt cheap. Many crafters now don't even bother taking orders because it is not worth the time. Instead of crafting time a crafter can just go kill mobs and make more. See the problem? I know many people don't agree with me but that's ok. I'll stick to my belief and change my craft prices according to changes on the mud, not by what my customer thinks he/she should be paying.


"Greed isn't a determining factor in how people survive, people have done so without having tons of cash or tons of resources. And it's certainly not what judges an economy."

yah? what's your point? take economics if you havent done so and you'll realize that greed is what drives the economy in a capitalistic market.

"The economy is based on several factors, not just by one person who has nothing better to do than outcharge a newbie player for an item that that person is going to end up getting from someone else in the end. You are why people sell things for cheap and make it themselves, and you wonder why people hold you in the respect of being a ripoff Smile And you may be right, it might not take alot of effort, but people do spend their money and/or resources in other areas and usually have a bit of trouble trying to get a high level piece of jewellry. But by then, they've seen how the market is and either spend lots of time finding another source or end up making their own, thus leaving you SOL."

I still make millions of gold selling equ the prices that i've always sell. If my equ are so expensive and i charge people at ridiculous prices then why do people keep on comming to me and buy my equ? why are my jewelry in my shop always sold out? I dont know if you've been my customer, but I always make it clear ot my customer that they will most likely to find better deals than from me. I believe that if you check the note by Opus at TSQ noteboard you'll see that he is willing to pay a decent price on jewelry and other equ that you and many like you would consider "Rip off." Also notice that he came up with this price himself. Opus is an average player, he isnt a richie rich and he isnt a hungry homeless man. Please check the facts before you make accusation, because everything you wrote is just an opinion.

You don't see me going around making judgement on people that sell their equ for prices that i don't agree. I may not agree with how some people do their businesses, but i have something call respect. I respect how people do their businesses because after all it is their labor their businesses, they are free to do whatever and however they want. Respect is something that people from this mud seriously lack. Now if you want to give me business tips, like advising me to lower my prices to attract more customers to make more profit then you're welcom to do so, but i will most likely to know this already.


"'By loosing even one piece of equ can be devastating. I don't know if this apply to everybody but it certainly applies to me. Most of my equ are are either jades or diamonds ranging from e300-400. They take litterally millions to make.'

Losing a bunch of letters and numbers isn't the end of the world. If you're so intense about gameplay in that manner, then maybe you should re-evaluate where you stand as far as being a part of a MUD. "

I see how you think equ are just abunch of letters and numbers reflects your opinion on their prices. Unlike you and some others, Equ are more than just numbers and letters. they are product of achievements, they are hard work and effort that a player have poured into. I have pride in my equ, and i'm sure many people feel the same way too.

Many of us realize, by now, that it's not worth it to get all upset over something that can easily be replaced.

Obviously you didnt not read the quote that you used. Scroll up a couple of lines and reread what you quoted about diamonds and jades at e200-e400.
You also didnt take into account of tattoos. you also didnt take into account for many other equ. Just because your equ are crappy it doesnt mean everyone equ are crappy. just because your equ can be easily replaced, it doesnt mean that everyone elses equ can be easily replaced. In the future please only speak for youself and stop speaking for others when you don't know others.


"There's enough people out there, with enough resources and with decent enough prices, that we can obtain the item again. Like you said before, it's not terribly hard to raise the funds to get the item again, so what's the problem? "

let me remind you that we are talking about my equ and or other equ from a bit higher status. You seriously think i will be able to find enough blue diamonds for another e400 earring? you seriously think i will be able to find enough emeralites for new axes and helmet? you serious think that i will be able to find more jades to replace my rings/glasses/anklets/... after the jade in the dungeon have been tweaked? You think that i can replace quest items? you think that i can easily replace a cloak of midian? Lets pretend that i can replace these items if i work non stop. But make no mistake, it is a high price! it will not be easy as you quoted. That is my problem.



"No one forces anyone to do anything they don't want to do, or forces them to do something that's hard for them to replace. And yet again, all about you. Do you not think of the other people out there that this may or may not affect? If you don't want to PK deadly, then DON'T! Nothing is forcing you to do any of this, good lord! "


go back to my posts and point out where i "don't want to PK deadly" I simply suggested, again an opinion, that deadly would not have to risk losing any equ. Some people may disagree, which is fine, i don't expect everyone to agree with me. You seem to have trouble taking opinions from other. Last time i check this is a Ideas and Suggestions forum. GOOD LORD!


"I'm sure that in your vast amount of cash flow and resources, you can always get it or make it yourself. Oh, but wait, you've stated it takes millions to make. Are you high? There's nothing out there that takes that much money to make."

tell me how much it costs to make an e400 emeralite axe if you can place a price on it.
tell me how much it cost to make an e400 blue diamond earring if you can place a price on it.
Tell me how much it cost for a titan tattoo if you can find a seller
tell me how much it cost for a diamond mask if it is legal to buy them again
tell me how much an e300 jade templas cost
some items cant be be purchased by wealth. they are quest items. Only obtainable once in awhile when there is a quest.
tell me how much an e300 blue dimaond bindi cost (people were trying to buy my e200 blue diamond bindi for 2.5 mil but i refused)

figure out the prices of these items and you will answer your own question.



"If you know the right people and am at the right place at the right time, it's possible to get such a prized item in other ways. Whether you want to believe that it comes from someone other than yourself, that's your problem. Not ours."

rethink of what you just said. notice that you started out with a big "if." how many people do you know are at the right place, at the right time, and know the right people? Sure if your argument is hypothetical then how can i counter argue because everything is possible with an "if."



"I agree that it might be hard to determine who a newbie is, and what factors add into that determination. However, I believe most of us have been around enough now to recognize whose who and what not to get into as far as a battle with someone else."

battles can not determine if someone is a newbie. YOu can not simply tell if someone is a newbie or not. you may think you do, but you never really know. By this definition Vogar(a year go) would have been the biggest newbie

"If you play your character well enough, anything can be beaten. "
this comment shows that you know very little about game balances. and again, you started with an "if" how well is well enough? open your eyes and you will realize that races and classes play a crucial role in who you can beat and who you can not. Just a couple of months ago before all the tweaks, you seriously think a well played pure fighter can beat an oracle or a conjurer? Think again. I know this because i'm speaking from experience. Ask kiasyn who she can beat, ask Quintos which mob he can kill, and then ask me who i cant beat and which mob i can't kill. You probably wont understand what i'm saying to will interpret it in a wrong way. i suggest you head over to the classes/races thread and read some of weems posts if you havent already done so. Perhaps, he's explains more clearly than I am.


"Look at how you lost so much to Laurana one day, and she's more than 300 levels below you."

Thank you, you'v ejust proven my point and contradicted your previous statement.

Alas, if we see a pixie oracle of a sufficient level, we usually think through and look at how our eq is and our skills are before going into battle. If not, then we abstain and work on getting ourselves either up to or close to that level. And most people usually craft and/or obtain eq at their level, though there are some exceptions. I, for one, usually go every 20 epic levels and craft up new bracers, cuirass, helmet and swords and am in the process of enchanting two new e60 rings, which were given to me as a birthday gift by Sardonyx.

Just an advice from someone who knows a little thing about crafts and level. Upgrading equ every 20 epic levels is not a good idea. Unless you have so much resources, so much time, and the belief that a few hundred enchantment space is well worth it. Oh btw, just is just an advice, take it or leave it, i'm just saying this ahead to time to prevent future accusations.



"If people are really serious about being an active part in PK, then they're going to have to learn to keep their eq as strong and competitive as everyone else. "
hey i think we have found our first agreement. *checks if the world is comming to an end**



"You see it on MUDs where being deadly is an option or is the entire norm, just like on Lands of Aethar. If you aren't up to specs, no matter your class, with your eq....well then, you're just SOL."

This mud is not Lands of Aethar. and classes do matter on this mud. some may be more than other. And we had Deadly on this mud durring my time. I can not say much about deadly beacuse i didn't participate in it till the very end of it. From what i observed, deadly was not that big. Not alot of people did not participated in it. Som eof the biggest names did not join simply because they did not want to risk losing even one piece of equ. I asked Gerarden how come he didnt go deadly even though he would own alot of people, he told me that's because he did not want to risk losing his equ. This was like 3 years ago.



"Honor and pride may be enough for some, but what about the others who want something to show for it as far as going past that time in battle? I doubt a scalping would be enough for some people. The only reason that it would be enough for someone of your stature is because, as you stated before, looting a piece of eq that's below your level is useless to you. And yet again, you you you. "

I have nothing to argue about the first part, but i have something to repsond to the 2nd part. when i say you i meant to everyone in general. to the reader, the audience. I know my writing isnt that hot so i am correcting it now. an piece of crappy equ level e1 is not going to be much of a use for an e200.



"Tell me, Lingolas, how much have you really played a deadly character and on what MUD for how long? Because what you've been stating has basically been based on your peaceful play here on DL. Have you been to a deadly MUD like Aethar? Or a MUD where PK is a big part of life, like old Eclipse, RoD, Dark Nemesis, Realm of the Ancients, etc? I suggest actually growing a pair, going to one of those MUDs and really see how things are when it comes to deadly PK. And please, provide us with some logged instances where we know it's really you and we'll see how well you know how PK should and should not be on any MUD, let alone on DL."

I never said i was an expert at being a deadly. i never said i knew much about deadly. I however offered my idea for PK and deadly. you seem to have trouble accepting ideas that aren't exactly as your. Sounds like communism to me....
If you really want to know my resume on this mud. i suggest you ask around. Ask people who i've fought with. ask them if i have any tatics, ask them if i know how to battle, ask them how many wars i've been in, ask them how many pk i've been in. you want to hear from my opponents rather than from me because my answer will most likely be bias.

Anyone else that's reading this, feel free to let her know what you think of my fighting skills.

=================================

now that i'm done defending myself, i got a couple of things to ask you.
how much do you know about dark legacy? how long have you played here (# of hrs is a good estimate). Were you a deadly on Dark-legacy? How many wars have you been in (not talking about areanas and illegal kills)?





Lingolas Escaflowne

now i will head to the library and study. hopefully there will be something to read and respond to when i get back home tonight.

Take my post as you like, from how I viewed things, that's the total and honest truth. If it hurt, then so be it. But it's not just my opinion...it's the opinion of many others, ask around. And here is my gramatically-correct civilized retort:

"Posts is plural, I assume that you've read many posts from many topics and have come to his conclusion. Well, this conclusion is narrow minded because not all my posts concern me. However, most of my posts has alot to do with me because i can only speak for myself. How can i argue about something that i have not experienced or have never tried? If you read my posts more carefully you would realize this."

That's right, I said many. I didn't say all. Where you stated that not all your posts concern you, many of them do. Hence, my point has been well-established from not just myself, but yourself as well. While I do understand that many people post in retort to a previous post by someone with the regards of themselves being included, I don't notice many of them saying 'me, myself, I'. That's why I called it a trend.

Clarify for me, please, where I was redundant in my statement concerning your concern expression being valid for other people, with plenty of instances where disagreement from yourself involves self-concern. I don't see how it was contradicting, considering alot of posts where you've expressed opinion, many of people have agreed in some part to it.

"I figured with a person of your level and stature, you'd be able to at least give up a little something in order to make the entire situation work."

This in hypothetical terms...everyone must give up a little something to make changes work. If we didn't, nothing would get changed. And I think this forum helps in just that, getting opinions and feelings out where people can make a majority decision whether or whether not to go forward. Just because you can't deal with parting with a piece of eq, because of its value to you, doesn't mean that looting in PK won't work in some aspect.

" 'We basically all are because we don't have the best eq, aren't the best class, aren't at the highest level...most of us, from what I gather, are looking at this on a whole for everyone, not just ourselves. You, on the other hand, seem to be out there for yourself.'

This quote shows that you know little if anything about me. "

Actually, it's not just my opinion. It's opinions of other people, expressed out in open, on how much you value everything for yourself and nothing for other people. You've even expressed yourself how much people think you're a ripoff, and more than one person agreed. My quote never suggested anything, it stated the obvious. Your assumptions about my statement clearly shows your defensiveness when it comes to the truth being expressed to those of us who already knew about it before I opened my mouth.

"Now i do admit that i have raised issues that benefit me, but i am just like almost everyone. You exaggerate much of this."

Again, no exaggeration. I stated the obvious, with examples, and that's all. If truth is exaggeration, then so be it.

I thank you for the clarification on the newbies coming to the MUD that go peaceful right away. Oh wait, let me take that back. It might be an assault.

" 'I'm not saying this because i can make alot of equ, but i'm saying this because alot of the currently equ are dirt cheap. It takes little effort to raise enough money for lets say an e100 ring.'

'Yet again, all about you.'

'I wear e100 equ? you need to recheck the high epic list and see who wears epic 100 equ. I certainly don't honey.' "

1) Do not call me honey. I'm not your honey, so I suggest retracting that statement.

2) I never stated your name, at all. Re-read, then respond.

3) I will bet you that at least ONE person on that list wears e100 eq, if not, maybe lower. Some people will craft epic level 100 eq because of the crowning factor and others don't craft eq after level fifty until at least epic level 100 because of the little changes in the enchantment space until that time. Artur, Gideon, etc have stated that it's pointless to craft anything lower than epic level 100, and I'm pretty sure that unless there's some drastic change that requires people to craft every so often, past epic level 100, people are wearing epic level 100 eq that are high enough to do so.

Now, I agree that crafters should sell their eq at whatever price they feel best reflects their hard work and effort. However, when people set their prices to the point where others -have- to make eq instead of buying it from someone else, chances are the people who can't afford it are going to spend the time to get it themselves, then sell it at two-hundred percent less just to tick you off. And, well, to gain business. People are going to go to someone, nine times out of ten, because they have a lower price. That other one time, well, they either wait it out and ask around some more, or they finally end up going to a high-price seller out of desperation. It's called supply and demand, and yes, I did take Economics in high school and passed it quite well. Yet again, myself and others aren't making judgements, we're expressing instances of what we've seen either now or in the past.

While your assumption about DL being a capitalistic market may or may not be valid, you are correct in assuming I follow a theory of supply and demand. Why would I not? In a place where most items are easily obtainable, with regards to being crafted or coming from a mobile that is rather difficult to maneuver past in an effort to obtain its eq, it's kind of hard not to. Look at mining picks. From what I know, myself and Mortisha are the two people who sell mining picks via a shop, while some others will do so through private orders or on auction. So someone will come along, not agree with prices, and go elsewheres where mining picks are cheaper and/or are in greater quantity. Perfect example of this: Sasuke asked, on ooc, about where he could buy mitrill. I pointed him at my shop and he said 'um no thanks, I'll either wait for Duna to log or go mining for mitrill myself'. Not only did he refuse because he felt my price for the quantity I was selling was too much, but he went to someone who could offer it to him at a cheaper price. If someone sees an item being sold for a high price, they will go either to someone who has it for less, get it on their own, and then either sell it for cheaper themselves or use it later on for themselves. On the note of exploration and knowing where to get cash, I do know. And I do it when I'm low on cash. But I'm not. It's not that I hoarde my money, it's that I can get all of the items I need without having to spend an arm and a leg for it. And the reason? People charging too much for what I consider to be valuable. If people didn't think that your prices were so high, then you wouldn't have those people learning how to craft the items themselves. And we wouldn't be having this discussion on how much you overcharge for items, now would we?

While avatar eq should reflect hard work, one person shouldn't have to spend a week trying to get enough money to buy one item. Like I stated before, nine times out of ten, that person will either go to someone else who sells it for less or they'll make it themselves.

Aceas posted a note about needing eq and what did I do? I gave him two bracers and a cuirass because I felt that what he put out there was too much for someone who had just gotten to his level...no matter how long he's been trying to get there. You honestly cannot expect someone who just got to tri-avatar status to pop out 650k for a set that they can get either for free or way cheaper than that. It's high prices and greed that drives people to obtaining an item in another fashion. Hence, why I gave him the three items

The above makes what I stated before concerning a greed-driven economy 100% true. People can survive on little-to-no contact with someone who charges an absorbanent amount for services they can either do themselves or get for a cheaper price. I was correct in my statement about greed not being a determining factor in an economy, or else you'd be running a monopoly. However, you're not...or we wouldn't be having this conversation.

"I still make millions of gold selling equ the prices that i've always sell. If my equ are so expensive and i charge people at ridiculous prices then why do people keep on comming to me and buy my equ? why are my jewelry in my shop always sold out? I dont know if you've been my customer, but I always make it clear ot my customer that they will most likely to find better deals than from me. I believe that if you check the note by Opus at TSQ noteboard you'll see that he is willing to pay a decent price on jewelry and other equ that you and many like you would consider "Rip off." Also notice that he came up with this price himself. Opus is an average player, he isnt a richie rich and he isnt a hungry homeless man. Please check the facts before you make accusation, because everything you wrote is just an opinion."

If you can still sell the items you do for the prices you do, then great. If I can sell an item for cheaper and get more influx as far as both customers and profit, then that's even better. People come to you because you may offer an item that no one else does, at that point in time. But if they find a shop that sells it for cheaper than you are offering it, then I can guarantee you that they'll purchase the item from that shop and not you. The economy will not crash-and-burn because you stop selling a certain item at a certain price. Many other items help in determining an economy or else DL would have an economy based on one sole seller...but it doesn't, now does it? As for Opus' note about paying a certain price for eq, that's what he offered up. And that's why I put out the post concerning what people sell their items for on the forum. Now you see the connection? I wanted people to know that they have more than one place to purchase their wares, if they felt that they weren't getting a good price for it. Also, I didn't see him targeting any certain person, so whether you decided to scoop up the offer right after he posted the note...then that's of your concern and no one else's. I'm willing to bet if someone wanted to, they could post a note with a cheaper price and he would take it. No questions asked...unless he's more of a moron than 95% of people know him to be

So you think I don't have respect? If I didn't have any respect, I would tell people whose shops I've been in, outloud, that they're a ripoff and that they're never going to sell anything because they're jacked in the head. Did I say those things directly to you? Nope. Would I? Yep. Because it's how I feel, but it's not right to do so on a forum where the beef you have seems to be with me, and vice-versa. You say that respect is something that people from this MUD seriously lack, and while I agree on some aspect of that, I don't agree that respect should be given based on the fact that you supply someone with a piece of eq that they're unintelligent enough to get for a cheaper price elsewhere. If you want to take advantage of people to fatten your pocket, then that's your perogative.

"I see how you think equ are just abunch of letters and numbers reflects your opinion on their prices."

Actually, it doesn't reflect my opinion on their prices. Assumption again. If I thought they were just a bunch of letters and numbers in the manner that you're implying that I am, I would be charging more than you. Plus, I wouldn't care what people thought of my prices. I would continue to do so, as I pleased, without any respect for the people just trying to get ahead and make a start in the world to stay competitive. Triggers and aliases do not compute into hard work, it's actually cheap labor.

You know why I didn't take into account the items you mentioned? And how do you know my eq is crappy? Because it's not blue diamond, or jade, or something that I paid you 400% more than its worth to obtain? I spend as much time, effort and energy on my eq as you do, so take into account what I do and what I do with it before making such an obsurd assumotion about how I am dressed or how I use my characters on my account.

With the millions that you proclaim you spend on items already, I'd think someone with your amount of cash would have enough to purchase the items needed in such an endeavour. You've gone as far as putting the prices and exchange rates on the crafting forum. I've seen people advertising emeralite and other high-end materials needed to craft such an item, so you cannot tell me that there isn't someone out there asking for their items to be purchased. I've even been approached by someone, asking me if I wanted to buy a Cloak of Midian. Me, a piddly little e71 swashbuckler. I'm not even an e400 swashbuckler. Touche.

There's been more than one opinion, not including myself, that states taking looting out of PK isn't an option. That taking looting out of PK takes away some form of element that makes it less-desireable. Oh wow, I even said it myself. Look at that, and look, I can quote a couple people in stating such an obvious opinion. Let's see, Jorelani is one...shall I go on?

How many people out there can really make a high-level item as you stated? Look at the hiscore epic list and tell me how many people, out of the entire pbase. I can bet you that by the time that person has reached such a level, they've accumulated enough gold and/or items to use in obtaining such an item for a pretty fair price. This is where you have an advantage, because your level and your wealth preceeds such an endeavour. I doubt someone at level 50 is going to try to make an e400 emeralite axe, even if the resources they have were given to them in a quest.

"If you know the right people and am at the right place at the right time, it's possible to get such a prized item in other ways. Whether you want to believe that it comes from someone other than yourself, that's your problem. Not ours."

1) The crafting forum allows for people to place items and prices and if they accept trades in place of such an item.

2) Word of mouth: take Eventine for instance - he had people asking him for items he didn't even craft because someone who got an item from him before told them about where they obtained it, and thus, he was able to tell them what he DID craft and his price. Alas, his crafting business was booming.

3) mail: people can mail others who may be offline at the time to inquire about something they've heard from another person about.

4) Shops: people usually put what they craft in their shop description and the stipulations for obtaining such an item.

5) Biographies: Alot of people will post their crafting items, their prices and such in their biographies. These people usually get orders while they're online, as opposed to putting it either on a note at Tarsonis Square or in their shop description.

" 'I agree that it might be hard to determine who a newbie is, and what factors add into that determination. However, I believe most of us have been around enough now to recognize whose who and what not to get into as far as a battle with someone else.'

'battles can not determine if someone is a newbie. YOu can not simply tell if someone is a newbie or not.' "

I never said that battle had to be a determining factor. I said that we usually can tell whose who and know who not to fight. Alot of people know that certain class/race combinations are tougher than others, but it's also been stated that some people play different classes/races and can still keep up...thus their belief that the races are fine as they are. One person in particular, Zeraphin, stated that if you play your character right, there's no need for it to be tweaked to keep up with someone like a pixie oracle. I may not have played all the races and/or classes, as I haven't been around enough and have alot more pressing RL issues to attend to, but I do read up alot on what people think and listen to how they feel about certain classes and/or races. So if you want to sit and make more of an assumption about how 'out of touch' I am with the current debates on both races and classes, think again. I know alot more about stuff going on than you think, or that you see where certain forums are concerned. If I had such a strong opinion about something, then I would have posted there. But I didn't.

As far as how I craft, I craft because someone of my level needs every bit of help I can get. If I'm not running gold, I'm epiccing with my highest-level character. And that's all I do. I have seven other characters to mine, craft, jail people, and just about everything else that I partake in as far as an aspect of DL life. What I do with my time is of my own choosing, and to have someone tell me how to handle it, that's obviously a waste of time on their part. Only one other person has done so, and I've taken his considerations to heart and thought them through enough to realize how to do things myself.

"This mud is not Lands of Aethar. and classes do matter on this mud."

Actually, classes matter on every MUD. And the last time I checked, Aethar was a tri-class system where being deadly was the only option. Touche.

Being deadly isn't right for everyone, nor every MUD. That's why there are some that are completely deadly-only, while some have it as an option, while some do not have it at all outside of an arena, like DL. And on every MUD where being deadly is an option, of course you're going to find that not everyone is a deadly. That's why there are deadly MUDs like Aethar. I know of people with eq that's worth at least 3 billion, on RoD, who do not participate in PK with certain characters, but will dress up a nice character for just PK reasons. What items they place on that PK character are items that they are fully aware can be looted, but those who play PK rather well do it because they're confident in their skills as far as being victorious.

You say you're not an expert at being deadly, but are so adamant on this subject as to totally violate anyone who has an inkling of desire to actually play PK -and- without fear of losing something they can replace? If you weren't so into making PK a certain way, I doubt you'd be wasting your time replying in a thread that wouldn't concern you in the end. That's why there's guild wars, and the arena...to help people insecure about losing something that they value so much in the aspect that they'll be able to keep that item.

I've been on Dark Legacy long enough to know how to get by without having to ask for any help. I know how to get my resources without having to pay a ton, if not at all, for them. I play about 60 hours a week, given that's including weekends and also time that I'm AFK with my kids or housework or something adult-like, like having a relationship or running my household. I've spent roughly 10 years in all aspects of a MUD to actually know what I'm talking about, and actually be able to back up my beliefs when it comes to being called an uneducated member of the masses, in so many words. I've been a deadly on other MUDs, the ones I stated in my last post are examples, and I haven't been in any wars because, well, there's no point. I have, however, been in Helter Skelter-mode instances on MUDs that promote both peaceful and deadly gameplay, and been involved in tournaments based on being in an Order, a Clan, or a Guild. That's why I suggested inter-guild PK, or did you not read that thread either?

I would really suggest coming back to me when you stop feeling you can bully me into saying 'You're right, I'm an ass.' because I won't. Not in this lifetime, not at all. I actually have a brain when it comes to alot of things, and I've been around enough to back up what I speak of.

Lets see here...

Kareyana writes

I've been around enough to back up what I speak of.

lets see how well you back up your own words.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Kareyana begins her first note with

Lingolas: I've read your posts, considered the points within them, and the alarming trend shows that your main concern is for you and you only"
she continues her note with

she continues with

you do express.... I figured with a person of your level and stature...You, on the other hand...your statement...So you're basically saying ...Yet again, all about you... What you put ...You are why people ...and you wonder why ...And you may be right...If you're so intense ...you said before...Do you not think of ...forcing you to do any of this... Look at how you lost so much to Laurana one day, and she's more than 300 levels below you..."

she ends with

Tell me, Lingolas....Have you been to a deadly MUD like Aethar...

Kareyana's 2nd post states

I never stated your name, at all. Re-read, then respond.

===============================================

Kareyana writes

And here is my gramatically-correct civilized retort:

This in hypothetical terms...everyone

Your assumptions about my statement clearly shows

Again, no exaggeration.

Yet again, all about you.

What constitutes what's something worth

And yet again, you you you.

I'm a horrible writer, but i'm not a hypocrite.
===============================================

Kareyana writes

Clarify for me, please, where I was redundant in my statement

You, on the other hand, seem to be out there for yourself.

Yet again, all about you

And yet again, all about you

And yet again, you you you

i'm sorry, you are right, it must be my imaginatino.
===============================================

Kareyana states

Take my post as you like, from how I viewed things, that's the total and honest truth. If it hurt, then so be it

and then later states

This in hypothetical terms...everyone must...

since when is speaking in hypothetical terms considered truths?
================================================
kareyana writes

Just because you can't deal with parting with a piece of eq, because of its value to you[lingolas], doesn't mean that looting in PK won't work in some aspect. [

who said that it won' work?
================================================
kareyana writes

I've read your posts, considered the points within them, and the alarming trend shows that your main concern is for you and you only.

then she later writes

... not all your posts concern you, many of them do

first it was "you and you only" then it becomes " not all your posts...[just]many of them."
================================================
kareyana writes

So you're basically saying that all newbies who come to a MUD with a PK option go peaceful right away?

Kareyana, the "all" is the product of your creativity, i never said all.
================================================
kareyana writes

There's alot of people who value things alot more than you do, and still manage to make a living by charging 200% less than you do.

what's wrong with this?

I actually have a brain when it comes to alot of things

================================================
Kareyana's response to the lost of an e300-400 diamond equ

in your vast amount of cash flow and resources, you can always get it or make it yourself. Oh, but wait, you've stated it takes millions to make. Are you high? There's nothing out there that takes that much money to make.

then defend this by stating

1) The crafting forum allows for people to place items and prices and if they accept trades in place of such an item...2) Word of mouth...3) mail: ...4) Shops...5) Biographies

good luck replacing an e400 blue diamond bindi through these 5 methods
================================================

Kareyana states

If you know the right people and am at the right place at the right time, it's possible to get such a prized item in other ways

then the following line states

Whether you want to believe that it comes from someone other than yourself, that's your problem.

CoTrAdIcTiON
================================================
Kareyana states

. If you play your character well enough, anything can be beaten. Look at how you lost so much to Laurana one day, and she's more than 300 levels below you.

this state put alot of pressure on the definition of the word "well" or else it would be raw contradiction. of course, the word well in this quote is ambiguous. There are lots of assumptions here. for instance, it assumes that Lurana plays her character "weller" than i play mine. 2ndly, it boldly claims that i lost so much to laurana in one day. Perhaps Laurana should post a note and set the record straight Please don't use examples that you dontt even understand.
================================================
kareyana's response to the use of scalps for pride and honor.

Honor and pride may be enough for some, but what about the others who want something to show for it as far as going past that time in battle?

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more funny lines

I doubt a scalping would be enough for some people. The only reason that it would be enough for someone of your stature is because, as you stated before, looting a piece of eq that's below your level is useless to you. And yet again, you you you. Someone at level e1 or even lower than that beats up someone a little higher, and feels pretty damn good about it and wants something to show that they got it from that person. Instead of a scalp, it could be a piece of enchanted and/or crafted eq from the person they just killed.

and i thought a scalp does exactly that...gee i guess i was wrong the whole time. i would feel stupid to kill kalsot and get his e1 boots that is made and enchanted by some noobs. ideas are good, but this one just doesnt make it.

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kareyna writes

However, when people set their prices to the point where others -have- to make eq instead of buying it from someone else, chances are the people who can't afford it are going to spend the time to get it themselves,

sounds good, but what's illogical about this? lets see, new players don't have the time to get the money that is required for a crafted equ(like 55k for a carnelian ring), but they sure have the time and the resources to learn the craft themselves. oh sure, this makes heck alot of sense.
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kareyana writes

While your assumption about DL being a capitalistic market may or may not be valid, you are correct in assuming I follow a theory of supply and demand.

When did i say that you "follow a theory of supply and demand?
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Kareyana writes

While avatar eq should reflect hard work, one person shouldn't have to spend a week trying to get enough money to buy one item

a week has 10080 minutes, each minute an average player who knows where to get money can get around 20k every 20 minutes. by this equation, it would be equivalent to 20.16 mil. I never sell my equ this high, my level 50 equ is around 30 mins worth of money hunting. Of course, this is too expensive for her taste.
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kareyana writes

. You honestly cannot expect someone[Aceas] who just got to tri-avatar status to pop out 650k for a set that they can get either for free or way cheaper than that.

Well, Aceas did popped 650k and Aceas was very happy with his order. If Aceas can do it, everyone else should be able to do and stop complaining.
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kareyana writes

It's high prices and greed that drives people to obtaining an item in another fashion. Hence, why I gave him the three items

no wonder newbies are so poor these days because they never learned how to work for their equ. They got other semi newbies who give them free equ.
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kareyana writes

While your assumption about DL being a capitalistic market may or may not be valid,

The above makes what I stated before concerning a greed-driven economy 100% true.

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kareyana writes

in my statement about greed not being a determining factor in an economy, or else you'd be running a monopoly

People come to you[lingolas] because you may offer an item that no one else does, at that point in time.

hey guess what, i did had several monopolies and you know what else? Artur had a monopoly over cloaks of midian too. Eomund and Matthew had monopoly over chokers for awhile. GoA had monopoly over Blessings of the Elder god in the old day s and we charge 350k each. Yumy and I had monopoly over gryphon eggs and we charged 300k each. Akuma , Arl and I had monopoly over heaven's might and we charge 150k each. Who else knows what kind of monopolies there are out there. but now you know that there are monopolies.
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kareyana writes

, I would tell people whose shops I've been in, outloud, that they're a ripoff and that they're never going to sell anything because they're jacked in the head. Did I say those things directly to you? Nope

but ealier she writes

Actually, it's not just my opinion. It's opinions of other people, expressed out in open, on how much you value everything for yourself and nothing for other people. You've even expressed yourself how much people think you're a ripoff, and more than one person agreed

i guess the earlier quote was written to somebody else instead of directly to me. Perhaps the forum isnt direct, it has to be in game play
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kareyana writes

However, when people set their prices to the point where others -have- to make eq instead of buying it from someone else, chances are the people who can't afford it are going to spend the time to get it themselves, then sell it at two-hundred percent less just to tick you off

i cant stop laughing everytime i read this line
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kareyana writes

Yet again, myself and others aren't making judgements,

[you]seem to be out there for yourself.

People charging too much

If people didn't think that your prices were so high,

You honestly cannot expect someone who just got to tri-avatar status to pop out 650k for a set that they can get either for free or way cheaper than that.

. I'm willing to bet if someone wanted to, they could post a note with a cheaper price and he would take it. No questions asked...unless he's more of a moron than 95% of people know him to be

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kareyana writes

Triggers and aliases do not compute into hard work, it's actually cheap labor.

hey guys, all those sleepless nights that you stayed on to mine for bronze for your craft is nothing but cheap labor according to kareyana. Unless she bots!!!! *gasp*
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kareyana writes

I spend as much time, effort and energy on my eq as you do

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karyeana writes

With the millions that you proclaim you spend on items already, I'd think someone with your amount of cash would have enough to purchase the items needed in such an endeavour

you assume that everything can be purchased with money.
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kareyana writes

. I've seen people advertising emeralite and other high-end materials needed to craft such an item, so you cannot tell me that there isn't someone out there asking for their items to be purchased.

who here uses emeralites to craft? and how often someone sells emeralites?
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kareyana writes

I've even been approached by someone, asking me if I wanted to buy a Cloak of Midian. Me, a piddly little e71 swashbuckler. I'm not even an e400 swashbuckler. Touche.

Thos of you know cloaks of midian can stop laughing now
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kareyana writes

How many people out there can really make a high-level item as you stated? Look at the hiscore epic list and tell me how many people, out of the entire pbase

I've been trying to ordering an e400 citrine ring for 2 mils. it is nearly a year now and no one has been able to do it. many attempted but all failed and ultimately declined the order.
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kareyana writes

One person in particular, Zeraphin, stated that if you play your character right, there's no need for it to be tweaked to keep up with someone like a pixie oracle

with all due respect, Zeraphin is incorrect about this one. Thanks god Celeborn tweaked speed.
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kareyana writes

You say you're not an expert at being deadly, but are so adamant on this subject as to totally violate anyone who has an inkling of desire to actually play PK -and- without fear of losing something they can replace

let me make it clear. I offered the suggest that there be pk without looting.
However, you interpret it as "violating anyoen who has an inkling of desire to actually play PK..."
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I asked Kareyana how many hrs she's played on DL
her answer is

I've been on Dark Legacy long enough to know how to get by without having to ask for any help

I play about 60 hours a week, given that's including weekends and also time that I'm AFK with my kids or housework or something adult-like, like having a relationship or running my household. I've spent roughly 10 years in all aspects of a MUD to actually know what I'm talking about, and actually be able to back up my beliefs when it comes to being called an uneducated member of the masses, in so many words

nice to know about your family and such, but you didn't answer the question.
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kareyana writes

I may not have played all the races and/or classes, as I haven't been around enough and have alot more pressing RL issues to attend to...

It's ok, none of us are perfect. We all have flaws. Wow this note took forever!!! i'm not doing this again. No further comments.
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ack! long posts!

No offense to anyone here, but lets please get back on topic. If you two would like to snipe and flame eachother, as interesting as it is to read, please create a "general chatter" or even "entertainment" thread up for this.

Now, as far as assassins for hire:

I think a good going rate (currently) would be 125k for each online hour of jailtime received for the murder. Who else thinks this is a fair rate?

125k per online hour? Who can't get over 125k per hour doing things that don't land you in jail?

well hey, it was a fricking suggestion :p I don't see you suggesting BETTER prices, so pshaw to you :p

Now, what about 175k p/ online hour

i dont usually post anything, but i have got to say that if yall are going to continue this amusing discussion *coughflamewarcough*, could u plz do it in smaller segments? For the sake of ur audiance (be it lingo, kari, or the rest of us) break it down in to smaller pieces so that we can be able to read a post with out missing our favorite TV shows. (not that i read that slow, but u get the meaning.) I actually like the fact that we as a mud may be open enuf to even permit intelligent arguements like these. It says a lot about the moderators and the players. i just ask that u shorten ur posts so that zera wont delete them on account of them being too long to read.

:

i like smiles, heh


*plz excuse all typos, i was sleepy when i typed this*

Intelligent arguement?