Justice Council

[Bruteus]

ooo... I just had a smashing idea...
what if we just jailed them for thier time, lets say they got nailed with 20 hours, ok? now, they had a command to reduce thier sentence... this command, everytime it is entered, reduces thier sentence by one hour, and reduces thier bank account by a set ammount, lets say 500k. so this poor sap who got 20 hours, could get out right away, only after they threw 10 million away. you know im on to something here...

Beleives in capital punishment,
~Bruteus Lonewolf

[weems]

ooo... I just had a smashing idea...
what if we just jailed them for thier time, lets say they got nailed with 20 hours, ok? now, they had a command to reduce thier sentence... this command, everytime it is entered, reduces thier sentence by one hour, and reduces thier bank account by a set ammount, lets say 500k. so this poor sap who got 20 hours, could get out right away, only after they threw 10 million away. you know im on to something here...

Beleives in capital punishment,
~Bruteus Lonewolf

Thats the same thing as bribery.

[Zidane]

i think its a idea by let someone else do it (friends) this way if someone dont have the money or have friends to bail, then they learn a lesson maybe

[Dunadan]

Bail systems were tried when the JC was relatively new, it didn't work at all, and that's the reason we don't do bail today. Best way to teach people the lesson is to have them sit in jail and not be able to get out without doing their time.

[weems]

Bail systems were tried when the JC was relatively new, it didn't work at all, and that's the reason we don't do bail today. Best way to teach people the lesson is to have them sit in jail and not be able to get out without doing their time.

Or to implement a true PvP system like the olden days.

[Isabelle]

this system we have was originally designed to allow players to resolve their disputes by themselves.

i am willing to entertain the idea of players receiving little if any sentences for any crimes which are justified.

But you will notice, nearly every player who is jailed, is jailed for reasons such as "well i was bored, so that's why i killed those people"

I have absolutely no respect for those actions.

And then you get into murky areas like "well, he said i was dumb, so i killed him" A pretty stupid reason in my books, the player might think they were justified, but i mean, come on, how thin skinned is that?

Allowing pvp across the board without penalty can't work, because idiots make peoples life miserable.

Adding in the old pvp code that helped protect people would be a good step, but until the code changes, we pretty much have to remain this way.

[Zidane]

Just an idea. Why not put low level player not to be able to deleted (same as know) and have avatar have a different type of bail, like random item purge maybe 2 items Plus 100k from a friend that cares (not a caretaker)

[Gilgolad]

i am willing to entertain the idea of players receiving little if any sentences for any crimes which are justified..

Highly justified murder is like when you were attacked by someone who thought they could kill you and instead you kill them, correct? So why would that person even have to be jailed if it was self defense?

[Dunadan]

You wouldn't be reported if you were attacked first, you could still kill the person and not have to worry about it. If by some bug or something you are reported then yes you'd get highly justified, if any jail time at all.

[Kiasyn]

Actually if they attack you and you kill them they can report you...

[Isabelle]

any person who was not the aggressor would simply be pardoned.

if you are attacked by someone, and you manage to kill them in the same fight, the system isnt supposed to allow you to be reported for any crime, if it happens, it's up to the players to tell me that, at which time i will give the player a full pardon.

assuming the player asks me kindly that is

[Zidane]

Actually if they attack you and you kill them they can report you...

i agree with this and i think we should have a self-defense issue

[lingolas]

I didnt read all the replies to this topic so excuse me if i say something that has already been said.

The justice council should be all about RP and it is still possible.
Here are some ideas:
1. Justice Counsils should have the ability to teleport to all criminals.
2. Justice counsils must subdue the criminal before the criminal can be shackled
4. JC should have special tools or spells to combat criminals
e.g. teleportation curse: stop teleportation
e.g. Stop pillar access: criminals can not use pillars
e.g. item: Cloak of Justice: Justice becomes completely invisible
3. Everytime the criminal KILL a JC that criminal gets additional penalty
4. Immortals can not interfere
5. once the criminal is captured that criminal has the option to bribe or bail. There should be a command for both of these options. bail price depends on the crime, character level, wealth... bribe money is completely up to the JC and the criminal. However, there's a trick with bribing. Everytime a JC accept a bribe, there's a 25% chance of it being recorded and sent to other JCs including Immortals. The JC who is caught will accepting bribes will become a criminal. lose all JC privilages. Will pay heavy penalty for corruption. At the same time the criminal who did the bribing gets even a heavier penalty and/or greater bail.
6. Should the JC get lucky and fall into the other 75% chance, he/she will get away rich.
7. There should be different ranks among JC. Higher ranks can out rule lower ranks.
8. Immortals are at the highest ranks but rare interfer.
9. JC do not deal with non "RP crimes" eg. hacking, password hackers...Immortals deal with these people.


I like this system because it mimmics the legal system in reality. It is good for RP. It allows room for "RP corruption" which further enhances the game play and the dynamic characteristic of every players on the mud. I'm sure there are flaws in this system as well as all other systems. If you see one, please point it out and so we can discuss it.

Lingolas

[Zidane]

I didnt read all the replies to this topic so excuse me if i say something that has already been said.

The justice council should be all about RP and it is still possible.
Here are some ideas:
1. Justice Counsils should have the ability to teleport to all criminals.
2. Justice counsils must subdue the criminal before the criminal can be shackled
4. JC should have special tools or spells to combat criminals
e.g. teleportation curse: stop teleportation
e.g. Stop pillar access: criminals can not use pillars
e.g. item: Cloak of Justice: Justice becomes completely invisible
3. Everytime the criminal KILL a JC that criminal gets additional penalty
4. Immortals can not interfere
5. once the criminal is captured that criminal has the option to bribe or bail. There should be a command for both of these options. bail price depends on the crime, character level, wealth... bribe money is completely up to the JC and the criminal. However, there's a trick with bribing. Everytime a JC accept a bribe, there's a 25% chance of it being recorded and sent to other JCs including Immortals. The JC who is caught will accepting bribes will become a criminal. lose all JC privilages. Will pay heavy penalty for corruption. At the same time the criminal who did the bribing gets even a heavier penalty and/or greater bail.
6. Should the JC get lucky and fall into the other 75% chance, he/she will get away rich.
7. There should be different ranks among JC. Higher ranks can out rule lower ranks.
8. Immortals are at the highest ranks but rare interfer.
9. JC do not deal with non "RP crimes" eg. hacking, password hackers...Immortals deal with these people.


I like this system because it mimmics the legal system in reality. It is good for RP. It allows room for "RP corruption" which further enhances the game play and the dynamic characteristic of every players on the mud. I'm sure there are flaws in this system as well as all other systems. If you see one, please point it out and so we can discuss it.

Lingolas

i agree

[Quintos]

1. Justice Counsils should have the ability to teleport to all criminals.

Definately not. Perhaps the addition of sieging citadels that I suggested a while ago (and I believe is being mulled over or implemented) is being put in and that would be better for gameplay and rp. If a criminal is going to stay in his or her citadel indefinitely, let them.

2. Justice counsils must subdue the criminal before the criminal can be shackled

This is a point that I agree on...if someone is unstoppable, the JC should not be able to jail him or her. If it takes a militia to take someone down, so be it.

4. JC should have special tools or spells to combat criminals
e.g. teleportation curse: stop teleportation
e.g. Stop pillar access: criminals can not use pillars
e.g. item: Cloak of Justice: Justice becomes completely invisible

While I do not support the second one, the first and third should be definately not be put in. If there is an RP explanation for the pillar one, I fully support it. I would give in to acceting the 'Cloak of Justice' if it had some limits... Worn on body (although I suppose about body would be acceptable... preferably on)... Not only usable by justices - if someone is gonna go toe-to-toe with a JG, kill him, and take his cloak, too bad for that JG because he's probably gonna be in some trouble.

3. Everytime the criminal KILL a JC that criminal gets additional penalty

Resisting arrest...I believe this was a suggestion of mine in my JC idea post and I fully support it.

4. Immortals can not interfere

Something else that I support, although it would be acceptable in some heinous crimes (only RP crime that would be justifiable to do this in retalliation to is the murder of real newbies by an unkillable criminal.

5. once the criminal is captured that criminal has the option to bribe or bail. There should be a command for both of these options. bail price depends on the crime, character level, wealth... bribe money is completely up to the JC and the criminal. However, there's a trick with bribing. Everytime a JC accept a bribe, there's a 25% chance of it being recorded and sent to other JCs including Immortals. The JC who is caught will accepting bribes will become a criminal. lose all JC privilages. Will pay heavy penalty for corruption. At the same time the criminal who did the bribing gets even a heavier penalty and/or greater bail.

I agree with this for the most part. Bail should definately be implemented, and so should bribery. I do not believe that bribery should necessarily be an offense that gets you removed 1/4 of the time, though. If you wish to take a bribe, so be it. I would also suggest some sort of check on JC abuse...every character above a certain level (since I am an elitest, I say e500, although lower would be acceptable, as long as it is not something easily abusable) that has logged in within the last week has citizen rights and the ability to vote on the expulsion of JGs to use as they see fit. If player cities and justice councils are added in, then remove the level req and instead give this right to all civil council members (or whatever ruling body there is).

7. There should be different ranks among JC. Higher ranks can out rule lower ranks.

Definitely. A good hierarchy is important...perhaps a high enough rank can call a referendum to remove another member, as an inside check.

8. Immortals are at the highest ranks but rare interfer.

If they truly did not interfere oter than under extenuating circumstances, I would support this. If they are found to interfere too much, I call for immediate expulsion of that immortal from the JC. If it is a player city/nation justice council, remove them altogether.

9. JC do not deal with non "RP crimes" eg. hacking, password hackers...Immortals deal with these people.

Of course.

[voska]

we should make a poll out of this I support Ling 100%

[Isabelle]

it won't serve a purpose, because some things simply will not work, or, i do not wish to happen.

i do not want JC members with the ability to 'goto' anywhere, especially a criminal.

i do not want administrators involved with the jc system, this is true, but for now, they need to be involved for reasons outside of normal criminal actions. such as when someone is caught botting, or cheating, or a criminal has found a way to exploit a game mechanic which prevents the players from jailing them, the council members have no ability to jail these people.

i do not want justice council members having any special skills, attack styles, nothing, the council is simply a 'position' or 'job' like a cop.

next, you want bribery in.. what happens when a law enforcement official is caught taking bribes? - they are removed from law enforcement, and jailed. bribes won't work.

you want bail in, ok, it's a consideration, but how much? Perhaps decided on by the JC member, but then who does the money go to? Perhaps you want it coded so that the mud takes ok, sounds fine, but you will need to spell out exactly how much it should be, and no, it would not be anything less than a million gold - ever.

Celeborn and I have always been interested in having a 'criminal element' in the world, BUT, when it has happened, it always ended up interfering with people who did not want to be a part of it. (It has always ended up with me saying to myself, ok, they crossed the line, and now it must stop)

So, to sum it up - i am receptive to changes with the system, but more clear ideas need to be decided upon.

[Lhile]

How about 1 mil per every 30 hours you want off your time?

[voska]

how bout 100k per hour.
that means justified or highly justified crimes ARE less than 1 million, but that shouldnt be a problem b/c they were justified. And crimes like unjustified murder equal up to 1.2 million, and crimes like cheating goes up to 90 million.

i think this would work pretty well

[voska]

sorry, was wrong a bit on the sentences, heres something more accurate

1) unprovoked assault 12 hours = 1.2 mil
2) justified assault 6 hours = 600k
3) highly justified assault 3 hours = 300k
4) unprovoked murder 48 hours = 4.8 mil
5) justified murder 24 hours = 2.4 mil
6) highly justified murder 12 hours = 1.2 mil
7) pardoned free = free
botting 8 hours = 800k
9) cheating 96 hours = 9.6 mil
10) killstealing 2 hours = 200k
11) slight harassing 4 hours = 400k
12) harassing 8 hours = 800k
13) obscene harassing 32 hours = 3.2 mil
14) being a poopyhead 1000 hours = 100,000,000
15) being a pain in the ass 1000 hours = 100,000,000

with this system, severe crimes get their severe payment.

[Kiasyn]

botting 8 hours = 800k
9) cheating 96 hours = 9.6 mil
10) killstealing 2 hours = 200k
11) slight harassing 4 hours = 400k
12) harassing 8 hours = 800k
13) obscene harassing 32 hours = 3.2 mil
14) being a poopyhead 1000 hours = 100,000,000
15) being a pain in the ass 1000 hours = 100,000,000

I don't think any of these should have bail.

[Gilgolad]

Dude, cheating should be harsher, depending on what kind of cheating it is. (i.e. Chubbs)

And a list of punishments isn't quite enough, there should be a list of what classifies as each crime plus differing circumstances that could happen. In other words: A list that explains every kind of crime in detail+ Sentace reccomendations.

[Kiasyn]

chubbs got banned for what he did.

[Isabelle]

1) cheating in this context include things like multiplaying, abusing a bug, etc (if it's minor) (if it's major - see #2)


2) cheating like the other thing you mentioned does not involve the justice council, it involves me. And like Kiasyn mentioned, that uses a different set of punishments

[Gilgolad]

lol