Worst moment in DL

[weems]

that's a more accurate description. The bard class is not hard to level, every other class is just easier to level.
Another way to put it, is the bard class might actually involve the player watching their screen while they play, instead of running a script on monday, and logging back in on friday to see how you're doing.
The bard class, and the salvaging skills should be the templates for all other classes and skills, in my opinion.

Oh right, thats a great idea. I have already tried my absolute hardest to get new people into DL, I always get the same response. They will make to level 20, 30, or sometimes even 40, and then give up, because its too hard for them.

The difficulty level is not something that spurs on learning, all it does is spur on frustration. It takes a pretty decent set of crafted equipment to level effectively, or a very good understanding of mobile equipment. Neither of which a newbie will have.

Nor will a newbie have scripts that know the optimal way to level. You say you want leveling to be hard for the newbies for them to learn: news flash, there are different kinds of 'hard'. Something can be difficult so it encourages thinking and problem solving, or something can be hard like you just plain don't have the means to do something, so you get frustrated, which is exactly what happened to everybody I tried to refer to DL.

If it takes any sort of crafted equipment to level, the mobiles are too tough. Instead of just making their stats all ridiculously high, and dealing 32797 points of blunt damage every time they elbow you, they could have better programs that stopped simple and repetitive attacks from working on them, therefore showing a newbie that you need to be varied in your attack strategy, and use your class effectively.

Newbies should be the top priority, not me, you, and quintos. Me, you, and quintos, and the rest of the top 5% of the DL playerbase, will ALWAYS have an easy time of leveling. ALWAYS. End of story. Do not try to make it hard for us, as we will always be smart and make it easy.

Think of the newbies.

[Quintos]

Weems bring up a good point. First levelling was easy so I could do it naked with a newbie sword and hit tri-av. You made it harder, so I started to use newbie eq and a newbie sword. Harder again so I used crafted weapons so I could actually critical. Harder yet again so I just pumped out a great set of levelling eq and levelled up fine. Those with resources and the knowledge to apply them will always have it easy. You can either make a game challenging or challenging for the best. Although it may be nice to attract some members of MENSA, let's not try to pretend that the average DL player is in this group.

[ShanaArkai]

i agree, think of the newbies. dont try to make it hard for top players because then its TOO hard for the lowbies and newbies. maby on the next patch cele could add in somthing that makes the mobs harder to fight if you have better eq or somthing like that, you know although im sure, if it can be done there will be someone to find a way to minipulate it. i dont really know what im talking about, but i find it hard enough to level as it is. making it harder would just be mean. and im sure it wouldnt help the pbase grow any

[Quintos]

If Cele did this, I'd just start using naked vampire mages...again... Oh yeah, that's the way around all the ideas to make it harder... Oh no, I've said too much.

[ShanaArkai]

he could also add in classes and complexitys for the mob strenght too

[Isabelle]

it's possible that you misread my post

i consider bards /not hard/ and a nice fair class to play, so i will continue with that statement and say, i do not want the classes impossible to play for newcomers.
And, i know for a fact there is a distinction from someone who wants to play a mud, and spends time learning how to play, versus someone who has been told to play from a buddy, and doesn't really have the interest in learning.
This secondary player will have zero ambition in reading a helpfile, or wanting to do more than 'kill opponent' and wait for the opponent to die.

Those are two different people. The first person learns the game, will probably be annoying with asking questions, but will inevitably progress way more than the person who has been brought in with their friend, and probably ends up getting powerlevelled anyways and missing half the game.

The warrior class will always be the easy class to play, and will invariably always be picked by a new player, there are no songs, or spells, you hack someone up, and move on to the next. So me saying i would like bards as the template for all other classes only goes so far.

[ShanaArkai]

ok i get it. and btw i didnt start as a warrior when i started playing. matter of fact, i dont think i had a warrior char till about a year after i started playing. my first char was a ranger (very bad choice- but thats a coment for another place/time)

[Laussen]

i think i lvl almost every different class to 20 than moved on because i just didnt get the fill for them. But on one lucky day i was in a group with one of my many chars and a bard told me that celle was having people try out the bard class befor it was added tobe one of the different classes so i went over to celle and asked her if i could be a bard to see how it was, and here i am ,

one more think the only bad thing thats happened to me on D-L was getting in fights and the sever goes down, get back on im a ghost that has no corpse , well i think isa knows about how many times ive done that because i have lost count

[weems]

it's possible that you misread my post

i consider bards /not hard/ and a nice fair class to play, so i will continue with that statement and say, i do not want the classes impossible to play for newcomers.
And, i know for a fact there is a distinction from someone who wants to play a mud, and spends time learning how to play, versus someone who has been told to play from a buddy, and doesn't really have the interest in learning.
This secondary player will have zero ambition in reading a helpfile, or wanting to do more than 'kill opponent' and wait for the opponent to die.

Those are two different people. The first person learns the game, will probably be annoying with asking questions, but will inevitably progress way more than the person who has been brought in with their friend, and probably ends up getting powerlevelled anyways and missing half the game.

The warrior class will always be the easy class to play, and will invariably always be picked by a new player, there are no songs, or spells, you hack someone up, and move on to the next. So me saying i would like bards as the template for all other classes only goes so far.

And look, you make assumptions and sidestep the issue rather than accepting what I say. You are implying that the people I had play DL were just dragged into it and didn't learn it because they weren't motivated to.

Wrong.

What I am saying is the truth. Levelling is not 'challenging' for newbies, its downright impossible without the proper equipment, which is not taught to them inside normal game mechanics.

There are no special skills of your class you need to figure out, its all basic stuff. Making levelling managable is a matter of getting the right crafting equipment, and no true newbie can get a nice set of crafted levelling equipment reasonably.

You can say I'm full of beans all you want, but EVERY experienced Dark-Legacy player will agree with me on this.

Its time to accept that maybe your view on a challenging learning experience is perhaps wrong, and perhaps its time to maybe reconsider. I'm all for a challenge. A challenge is great. But right now its not a challenge...Its just equipment based. Theres only so much you can learn about your class

These are the spells I have, these are the skills I have. These are the commands I have. If such and such a mobile does this, then I can retreat and it won't be able to hit me! Theres only so much to learn about this mundane levelling.

But again, it only takes one elbow for eleventy billion damage to kill you...That is, unless you have crafted equipment with blunt resist.

The key for a challenging learning experience for newbies is forcing them to vary their attack patterns, not just making mobile stats ridiculous so that you are forced to have all this special equipment unless you want to die all the time.

[Isabelle]

i don't even know where you're getting this from, so hey, if you're posting for the sole reason of trying to contradict me, thats your choice, but players seem to go from level 1 to epic 1 without much difficulty, and nearly everyone goes from level 1 to 30 without craft gear, yet the mobiles stats are ridiculous?
Those who are motivated to learn the special attacks, and special skills, and everything else the game has to offer - /do better/ than any player who is not motivated to learn.
I know this to be an absolute truth.
Those who sit down, and take the time to go through the training academy do way better than those people who skip the beginning. I have the unique position of being able to 'see' this in action, i know it to be true.

I hate to repeat myself again, but the bard class is not hard. Disagree with me if you wish, or say i am sidestepping the issue (i thought the issue was with us talking about whether or not bards are hard to play)

I'm talking about bards, it's another one of those arguements where i am not arguing with you, but you are wording your responses in order to make them sound like you are assuming a contrary position.

To address your message specifically - for you, there are commands that you consider childs-play, they are so basic to /you/ that you don't consider that they are absolutely foreign to a new player. retreat, fallback, aim for limbs, make limbs bleed, use bleeding as a way to kill your opponent, use charging to do more damage, use mounted combat for more damage and speed, using special runes inside prisms and idols, learning about areas of the mud which are better suited to your level and your class. Then theres enchanting, crafting, poisons, moving around, using the worldmap, learning commands most players dont know about. Theres alot to learn, and simply knowing the commands isnt enough, you also need to learn how to use them effectively.
I like that.
I like players learning how to use everything that's at their disposal in an efficient and effective manner.
And i wish the areas / mud made the player want to learn all these abilities available to them.

I doubt if we have an arguement here, i don't see how or why you would want to argue that.

[weems]

I never said once that levelling a bard was hard in of itself, I said it was hard compared to the other classes, and I got upset when you mentioned that you use them as a baseline for difficulty, as I think its already too hard for newbies.

Especially when I say yes, I have had people try DL and it was too hard for them, then you just immediatly ASSUME it was because they just didnt have the attention span to learn it properly.