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 Post subject: Orcs Only (other races banned!)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 2:14 am 
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Orcs, I always liked the idea of playing an Orc. Almost made a Tri-av once using this race. Pixies slaughtered him too baddly though

Orc: 10% weaker at magic, Feral Rage whenever they BLEED, no extra damage from berserk or aggressive combat styles

I would also make Feral rage based more off level. Feral Rage is too powerful for lowbie and too weak for Tri-av. If it was on a level-based curve it would be better for game balance. Having it happen whenever your bleeding would help quite a bit more then an HP trigger.

Lingolas suggested that when they bleed is a bad idea, and that 50% HP is better. I strongly disagree. Your already half dead, and you are just deciding to get angry and fight? I think not. True, it would not be quite as useful against those that wield blunt weapons, or who throw magic at you. Here is how we solve that....

Allow anyone of any race to use the command "Bloodlet" to cut yourself if your holding a slashing, or piercing weapon. Wound created would depend on the weapon. It would either be stabbing, or slashing type medium critical. It should also be targetable as to where you want to cut yourself (arm, leg, hand, head, ear, ect....).

Such a command would allow Orcs to whip themself into feral rage by cutting themselves to get angry. It would also allow added RP for all other races, and for Vampires. We could have blood brother rituals, or just some added drama of "I swear on my own blood you shall die if I see you again!" *slowly draws his blade across his arm*

All the above would make orcs a lot meaner, and more fun to play.

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 Post subject: my 2 cents
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 10:44 pm 
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I disagree,
Orcs, while needing to be revamped, should not be done as above.

Feral rage should be level based, I agree, but either when at hp of 25% or less, or when a limb is useless.
Im not certain if it already does, but it should make all broken(not severed) limbs useable at half their normal effectivity.


Do you think that only orcs 'get angry and fight' in teh game? feral rage shows that, when in desperation, they have a way of using their fear/pain to streangthen themelves.
having it at bleeding might work as well, but if done, the bloodlet thing should be completely ignored. Bloodlet doesn't maek you bleed, it drops some blood on the ground, then closes the wound.
The rp thing might be cool, but make it a different command from bloodlet.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:53 am 
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ok the only thing i dont like about feral rage is i have about 400 hp left when it kicks in, which means i wont last much longer. When i die i still have feral rage, but none of the good stuff just the -int. Thats my feedback on it...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 8:03 am 
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Alright, lets say we just make Orc's Feral raged level based but leave it at the 25% HP or so that it currently it. How would that be revamping anything at all? All it would do is weaken the low level Orc's and yet the High level Orc's would more or less stay the way they are, unless you propose increasing the power of Feral rage.

Personally, I am all for making Feral rage less powerful, but more useable. What good it be to have +100 attack roll, if you could only use it while you are at 1hp? Thats my point. Feral rage is not very useful based off a HP trigger. I feel a bleed trigger would be much more useful, and still have strong negatives. For one you have to be bleeding. Could not the code be made to decide how bad a cut would activate it? Dripping would be a little weak if you ask me, and Spraying would be to strong. If its somewhere in between, would not that cut mean loss of HP continually during a fight? Oh, but they will just spam heal spells, right? Hah, Orcs have one of the worst magic complexties in the game.

You think I don't know that Bloodlet does not create a wound? I am suggesting that the command be completely recoded, not just made so "everyone can use it".

I agree with the Dourth, I have felt the negatives to the Feral Rage on my orcs a lot more strongly then the positives. If you are already weak in magic, losing another complexity can be quite painful. Orcs need a boost, and a strong one. We don't need something politically correct, Anvar. What we need for Orcs is something that gives them a chance in Alora. Something that would make a propper percentage of players want to be Orc. Can you honestly say that Orcs are as many in number as our choices of racial selection would lead us to believe they should be?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:51 am 
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orcs seem to be about as well represented as gerps or hobbits.

And I was usggesting makign it stronger for higher level orcs. I do not, howver, feel that making it somethign teh player can just cause would be good. Otherwise somethign like this would happen-

"Oh, this mob is 10 levels higher than my 10 /10 warrior/rogue orc, Ill just cut myself a bit and use feral rage to kill him."

i am not saying that it does not need to be fixed, merely that in order to USE IT you should have to keep yourself at a disadvantage, the low hp deal.

Also, I have yet to see even a pixie have 4 hp at level 1, someone with 1000 hp might very well sit at or around 250 hp for a while with a level based feral rage.

But back to discussing what should be done. Maybe have Feral Rage increase stats by a percentage. That would put someone with a higher level at the same advantage as a level 4 orc. maybe give them double attack ratingand +50% STR at 25%hp, taht woudl be just as effective at low levels as at higher levels.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 6:09 am 
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Does a Pixie need to do anything special to use their +25% complexities? Do Gnomes have to trigger their magic resistance? Do Trolls have to use a special command to start regening HP? No they don't. Would it be wrong for an orc to have a powerful skill, but have to trigger his power? No it wouldn't.

It would in fact be a slight balance to a better skill. I see no problem with an orc cutting himself to be angry, any more then I see a pixie spelling himself up before combat, instead of while in combat. Is one right and the other wrong? Why are you so scared of Orcs? Name three Orc characters off the top of you head.

Yes, I realize that Gerps and Halflings are just as bad off in popularity. It is my intent to do posting on every race and starsign, two at a time. Under another topic you might notice I suggested some changes to both of those races too. However, this is a topic for Orcs only.

You seemed to have missed my point about having a powerful skill that could only be used while you have 1 hp. The point was, what good is a skill that isn't going to save you from the next hit, which will surely slay you? Combat skills should be usable in combat, not just for one last swing before you die. Ask Lingolas, Rahl, or any decently equiped epiccer how much they can hit you for in one swing. Go let a supper mob hit you just once, and see how much damage it does. Now tell me how long an Orc will last at 25% of his max HP.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:17 pm 
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mosts orcs wouldnt even get to 25% hp if they were equipped properly... 99% resists would turn the damage down majorly and could be healed easy :X

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 6:15 pm 
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As I recall, pixies are banned from this forum.

However, you do have a point. An orc will either be weak to the point that 25% HP means death next hit, or they will be so heavily equiped that they will never take a hit. In the first case the orc's Feral Rage might only get in one or two swings. In the second case it would never be activated at all, if it was using an HP trigger.

Yes, in an ideal world, everyone has 99% in every resistance. Everyone also has 75MR or better, and uses juices to heal. Why then does no one make an Orc?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 2:20 am 
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I would make an orc.... only i have no more alt slots and i dun wanna delete any of my crafting chars (all of them :P)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:35 am 
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Feel free to delete away. We don't mind

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 8:12 am 
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and i dont mind what you think... but /i/ mind if i delete them :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:41 am 
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anvar, im not trying to smash u down or nothing but orcs do not get feral rage from fear....maybe pain but not fear.....why do you think they call it "RAGE" because it is spawned from their anger of losing the battle they are currently enrolled in.
and yes i think it should be allowed to be done by cutting thyself with a weapon. it would make orcs a little more balanced inthe aspects of it being able to power itself up before it goes into battle
and it shuld be triggered by someting other than like the last 10% of ur life or wutever it is because some people are completely screwed over if they are currently at half of their life anyways or wutever you know what i mean.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 6:55 am 
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I just want to say... LONG LIVE THE GITHS! g1th 4 l1f3 n00bZ0r!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 8:20 am 
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ok heres another spiel on orcs

Orcs are stupid and smelly as everyone knows, but they are strong too.
So why not let them do stuff in berserk that other races cant like cast, flee, and talk perhaps. and feral rage is way to weak come on here is my feral rage

[feral rage ;+051 DAMRL; 0:08]
[feral rage ;+8.8 ATTRL; 0:08]
[feral rage ;+004 STR ; 0:08]
[feral rage ;-001 INT ; 1:48]

The dmg roll and att roll isnt to high and it doesnt last long at all, that wont save me butt at all in battle.
And how about raising feral rage to more than 1/4 or how ever much it is, cuz when i get down to that much im already dead :).
Well these are just a few changes that i suggest that would make me alot happier.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:12 pm 
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+50 damage, and plus 8.8 attackroll is hardly something to be scoffed at.

Perhaps feral rage can be re-visited however, and turned into a racial skill, with a cooldown penalty to it when used.
(and a duration)

As for having strong creatures be able to do things while in berserk mode... berserk mode is just that.. berserk
Whether you are a pixie frothing at the mouth, and swinging your arms around wildly screaming obscenities, or a 10 foot tall ogre doing the same thing.. the idea is that berserk = loss of all reason and sanity, you are out for blood, and common sense is something thats just thrown out the window.
Consider the absolute most pissed off you have ever been, where reason is tossed aside, and you act very foolishly... it's a pretty good definition of berserk.

If memory serves, theres an old movie called the Littlest Viking.(i think that's the name) You should watch it to see a good idea of berserk. :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 8:58 am 
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in ^orc age of empires II, Viking elites are called Berserkers. they march in battle screaming and hacking violently like mad. At the same time they regenerate HP when not in battle.

oh wait, i'm way off topic. I need to insert the word "orc" somewhere...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 9:28 am 
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I haven't tested feral rage myself, so I'm not sure exactly how it works. With that said, this is what it looks like to me:

From what I understand, it is triggered by dropping below a certain % of hp; a very low one.

Looking at the bonuses and their duration that dourht posted, it appears that feral rage doesn't last long enough to be useful, and by the time it happens, you have to run and heal or you will die(you attack and take advantage of the bonus, you die).

However, if the bonus is triggered around, say, 50%, and it renews each time you are hit while below that % of hp, then it would be good. If that's how it works, it's a decent ability(like I said, I don't know how it works for sure).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:22 am 
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I Have played several Orcs in my time with Dark Legacy, and I tested out the new Feral Rage. I think it should be something that can be activated, like a starsign ability. The Norsemen of old (who were the original berserkers) used to use their hate and anger to whip themselves into a killing frenzy. They also used psycotropic mushrooms to increase this effect and commonly ran into battle naked and wielding a sword or axe.

---Avestifal

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 Post subject: Pay no heed to the elf behind the curtain
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:25 am 
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Ok, I am an elf, so forgive my intrusion. We sneaky elves can’t resist spying on smelly orcs. But please listen before you turn me into elf pudding. Why not have rage take effect when you receive 20% of your current hp in a single attack. So if you got hit with the random encounter from hell, and hit hard in the first turn, rage would kick in right away. Weak encounters may never trigger rage. For average encounters it would kick in latter in the fight as your hp total dropped. Now while the orcs argue this point, the elf slips silently away.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:16 am 
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arureal
the problem with that is that you could have a monster that is stronger than you but never does more than 20% of your life in damage unless he got lucky and managed a multiplier.....wait do mobs get those?


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 Post subject: That is why I said 20% of current hit points.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:18 am 
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So lets look at a strong mob that can only hit you for only 15% of your total hit points. Now assume you have 2000 hp, you get hit for 300 damage. In two hits your are down to 1400 hit points. The next hit for 300 dam is more than 20% of your current hit points, you enter rage after the 3rd hit.

So lets say the mob only does 10% of your total hit points, now the damage is 200 per hit, and you enter rage after the 6th blow, and you still got 800 hit points left. If the mob does 5% dam, that’s 100 per hit. You will enter rage after 16 blows have landed without you healing, and 400 hit points left.

If the mob does less damage that that, what do you need rage for?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:08 am 
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If you non-orcs don't stop talking in this topic, I will get Grignack and tell him your here.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:24 am 
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[sarcastic]im so scared[/sarcastic]

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 1:28 am 
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That is one big ugly fella, i'm gettin the hell outta here!!!! :shock:

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