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Dark Legacy MUD Forum • View topic - Rangers Only (no Druids allowed)




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 Post subject: Rangers Only (no Druids allowed)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:21 am 
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I am sure most people would agree that rangers need a bit of a boost. They have nothing at all that they can call there own. Skills and spells have only been taken away from them over the years, and none have been given in replacement. Only thing rangers have is Track, and hardly anyone uses that anymore.

Rangers are rogues that can't hide, sneak, or picklocks anymore. They also had detrap taken down to 50%.

Rangers are warriors that can't spin, and don't get equilibrium, or headbutt.

Rangers are Druids that don't have anything near the magic ability, nor do they get the druid only spells.

Rangers are Paladins that have no divine complexty or paladin spells, and can't use holy avengers.

Rangers are Mages without any real offensive magic, and without the complexities.

Rangers are Clerics without the ability to use defensive magics well.

Rangers are Psionists without the complexities.

Rangers are Bards that can't sing.

That is all a ranger is currently. They are EVERY class, but in an inferior way. Rangers are the guys no one wants to be. How do we fix this?

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:47 am 
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Now that I have decided that Rangers need a little boost. I should probably tell you what I would do to help them.

Give rangers back detrap to 100% (rangers hunt in the wilds, and would both make, and disarm traps)

Give them the ability to sneak around, without needing to hide. (Don't give them the hide ability)

Raise their abilities in all ranged weapons to 99%, decrease their basic melee weapons (swords, dagger, ect...) to 90% or lower.

Change the way missiles and quivers are crafted. Make quivers simple containers, and have each individual missile crafted by itself. Higher the level, higher the damage. Higher the quality, less chance the arrow will break on a hit or miss. (arrows stay in corpses, so they would be reusable).

Allow individual missiles to be combine with vials, to do various things on impact. Since it would take one vial per missile, it would be costly to do, but missile are salvagable from corpses if they weren't the "Death blow" missile.

Change "shoot" to work like: shoot <ammo> (mob) <target>. This would allow you to choose which missile in your quiver or inventory to use.

Increase the number of sockets on bows to four sockets, to match that of staffs. After all, they call them "Bow Staves" don't they?

Allow missile weapons to be used as melee weapons (poor ones) via jab, thrust, and lunge. This should do blunt damage, but be inferior to all other blunt weapons.

Increase the power of crossbows, and the lag they create. Arbalists sometimes had 900 pound pulls or better. Compare that to your 125 pound pull on a good longbow. Which would take longer to load? Which would do more damage?

Make loading crossbows a seperate mechanism.

shoot mob
Your crossbow is currently not loaded.
Load crossbow bolt
You begin winding the gears to load your crossbow.
You a crossbows cable slips into its notch.
You place a bolt inside a crossbow.


This would allow you to carry a loaded crossbow for a quick shot, but would take a lot of time to load in battle. This would be an appropriate balance for a large increase in power over what they have now.

I also think that Rangers and Rogues should get a skill called "Throwing" which allows them to decrease the lag they have on thrown items and weapons.

Those changes, in my mind would make rangers useful, and an interesting class that is unique.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:39 am 
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i do agree that something needs to be done to help out our rangers;however, i do not want to see a ranger who can pick lock as well as a rogue or detrap as well. I do not want to see a ranger who can fight as well as a warrior. I do not want to see rangers able to hide and sneak like a rogue either. These are skills that define rogues and make them unique.

We should give rangers some skills that make the unique in their own way. I suggest giving them improvement with arrows and bows.
also extra damage vs normal beasts if the skill hunting is high.
also give them a new skill called "trap." this will allow a ranger to set traps. This will greatly counter the rogue's detrapping skill.
I understand that this is illogical. if you can make a trap why cant you detrap it? but for the purpose of balance among classes i think that it will work out fine.
what do you guys suggest?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:28 am 
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One small thing, NEVER did I say give rangers "hide" nor the skill "pick lock".

Sneaking around silently _IS_ one of the things Rangers do. For purposes of balance I left out Hide, so that Rogues would be better. Sneaking into a room is all well and good, untill the mob looks at the room, or another enters the room and clobbers you. It would be sneak without the ability to hide.

Why do rogues have the detrap skill? Do rogues set traps against animals? No. Rangers do, and as such should have the skill to take them appart. Rogues are commonly thought of as thieves and tomb raiders, thats why they have the skill. Its also why they have lockpick.

Rangers already can detrap, but only to 50%. When its that low, it basically down to "Do I cut the red wire? Or the Blue wire?" chance of setting even the easiest traps off. Don't even think of taking appart a complex trap. This skill should either be increased to 99% or removed from rangers. I vote increased, as there is no reason they shouldn't be able to detrap. It takes nothing away from the usefulness of Rogues.

Why not give Rangers lockpick too? Because where have you ever really seen locks in the untamed wilderness? Rangers should be completely ignorant of the ability to pick locks.

Limiting improvements to arrows and bows is foolish. All that would do is make the other missile weapons decorations for your citadel. All missile weapons should be the same for Rangers. It should be the rangers choice as to which one he perfers most. Rangers are to Missile weapons, what Warriors are to melee weapons.


If your still worried about rangers getting sneak, and detrap, consider basic smaug. Rangers had: Hide, Sneak, Detrap, AND Lockpick. Yes, I know that DL is not basic smaug.

The way I see it, Rangers shouldn't have multistrike. Rogue's purpose to to add more to the exotic/dagger/talonous melee skills. Ranger's should be to add missile weapons, and range based skills. Does Warrior share its Spin skill with its caster cousin the Paladin? The why should Rogue share its Multistrike with its cousin the Ranger?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:46 am 
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Yes, vogar, but giving rangers lockpick/detrap to 99% is the same as giving a Paladin equilibrium to a warriors max percent. i dont see that happening either.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:43 pm 
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Once again, let me state that I NEVER said to give rangers lockpick.

They did use to be able to pick locks. That is what I stated. A lot of old rangers PICKED the class because they could hide, sneak, and lockpick. Detrap wasn't even a slightly useful skill at that time.

They CAN currently detrap at 50%. That is completely and utterly useless. That means even on the easiest traps its down to "Do I cut the red wire, or the blue wire?".

Its not going to unbalance the game if rangers can suddenly detrap at 100%. All the good stuff in Epics is locked anyway, or can be carried away to be detrapped in a safe room. Why not give a ranger a useful skill then instead of half of one?

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The Circle of Steel


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 9:52 pm 
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if your going to make rangers better, you cant do it by giving them other classes skills, i'm all for hide, but it cant be hide like a rogue.

i'm against picklock and detrap

as long as multiclasses exist, rangers will never be able to be given their full uniqueness.

we could give rangers the ability to charm creatures with racepools of 'beast' or 'animal' allowing them to make like their own tanks or something, it would be a skill, that needs to be concentrated upon, with the animal either failing or succeeding the check, succeeding means it attacks the ranger immediately.

one charmed creature max.

they could also get bonuses when fighting in 'material leather' - from crafted leather armor.

rangers would continue to get bonuses to ranged weapons, and would get weapon skills comparable to a warriors.
(but the warrior would still get the advantage as far as brute force goes)

--->
rangers could also get new skills, which depend upon the use of ranged weapons, such as skills which allow the customization of arrows, such as arrows with specific attack or damage bonuses, and/or arrows which do a specific type of elemental damage.
- this would be a ranger only set of skills, which would only be fully effective at level 50.

i would press the fact that i would not want any loopholes existing which could allow the ranger from giving these specially crafted/enchanted bows/arrows to other non-ranger players for use. It would have to be /solely/ ranger use only.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 10:48 pm 
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a skill similar to multistrike, except with a (X)bow would also make sense on a ranger, fire more then 1 arrow/bolt at once. Multishoot, same advantages and disadvantages as multistrike, maybe one or 2 less shots since there's already the ranged advantage.

-Arcane Ranger


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 1:54 am 
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i'll disagree with the multistrike arrows/bolts

melee weapons maybe, but not arrows/bolts


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 1:56 am 
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why?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 2:00 am 
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because its a bad idea, you cannot fire a bunch of bolts or arrows at once

those who would argue with me need to pick up a bow and try it out :P

(p.s - make sure no-one is within 180 degrees of your line of sight)


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 2:02 am 
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nor can you attack 4 times at once, or 8 times at once with different monsters. pick up a sword and try it out. you also cant conjure up fireballs and fling them at people, or make super portals that hold 5997 items.

realism pretty much goes out the window with any mud, isabelle.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 2:13 am 
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yup, but thats magic, magic defies common logic.

skills which are implemented into a mud, from real life are generally used with real life rules, to allow a person to relate to it.
(which is why we have humans, and creatures with arms and legs, and eyes and such)


multistrike is a skill i would change for only rapiers (which /is/ possible to use)

but i have no say over that, so, all i can do is try to point out newly submitted ideas, which i do not like, and i dont like the idea of 10 arrows being fired from a bow at once, every 3 seconds.

or even 2 arrows


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 2:20 am 
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It is NOT possible to attack somebody 4 times within one tenth of one second, even with a rapier. I have taken fencing lessons before for kicks, and watched professional fencing matches. Sure, they are fast...

But not THAT fast. :shock:

I say screw the attempts at realism. EMBRACE THE UNREALITY!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 2:30 am 
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i would replace multistrike with just 'big swishy attack' that does more damage, but thats me.

and.. my friend Don teaches the rapier, he can move that thing pretty damn fast, i do remember blinking once, and missing his fight :)

i wont disagree that 10 attacks severing off limbs is silly

but slashing someone up real bad in like a second or two, thats possible

Edit: don't you need two weapons for multistrike anyways?
So right off, two attacks at once seems possible to sever at least two limbs)


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 3:22 am 
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Specially designed bows that allow you to fire two arrows at once :)

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well i can understand your logic isabelle, but i agree with weems. that's what i made my idea based on, the in-game multistrike.

or as kiasyn said, new bows specifily made to shoot multiple projectiles(there's definitely xbows in rl for that), but that's a different topic.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:52 am 
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Isabelle, you are aware that rangers DO have Detrap. They get it to 50% ( a completely and utterly useless bonus ). They also have multistrike ( a skill that was given to a different class to boost it ).

I am not saying to give rangers Detrap, so much as to increase their skill in detrap to make it a useable skill. If you would rather take it away and given them something else, fine. BUT actually give them somethings else. Rangers have only lost skills over the years. Only major thing they gained was Multistrike, and rogue got that too.

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yup, but i'm saying they shouldnt have it at all - i dont see the logic in them getting the ability to remove bombs from chests, it doesnt make sense. I wasn't aware that bomb removal was a normally primary ability of a person who spends their time hunting woodland creatures :)



however, in place of total removal of detrap, i would propose giving them a 'trap skill'

which could be something you might use in epics, setup some traps, call in the aggressive mobiles, and watch them get caught, taking damage, maybe a range of different traps, with different elemental types of damage.
- and each different type of trap would require certain resources for them to first work right, like a piece of mitrill ore, and a few strange herbs, maybe the meat of some uncommon beast.
- all of which would be consumed when creating the trap


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:09 am 
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Alright.... so Rangers can make bombs but not take them appart? But a Rogue can take bombs appart, but not put them together? I really don't see your logic there at all.

I could see something like this:

Class, Trap, Detrap
Ranger, 100%, 50%
Rogue, 50%, 100%

That makes much more sense. Also, you refered to traps in DL as "Bombs" yet most of them have to do with much more simple things:

Closing of exits
Snarring
Ring of bells
Zapping of Wands
Shattering of Jugs (holding elementals)
Release of Deadfalls
Release of Blades under preasure

Any woodsmen that can trap animals can certain understand how to take such things as the above appart. Unless of course the woodsmen does not use anything but the simplest pre-made traps he bought at the trading post. But then is he really a woodsmen?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:10 pm 
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my idea was not to be limited to how things are tho vogar

but rather to make a distinction between what is happening


i like rogues picking locks, and disarming strange mechanisms, i also like them using poisons (at varying levels of strength and difficulty)
making traps? while i might agree, with the help of a blacksmith, i'm sure they /could/ make a trap, in dark legacy, i think having cool poisons would be quite fair enough :)

i like rangers making strange traps designed to snare creatures or people, but not to create complex mechanisms, not to make locks, and not to be able to pick locks, and not be able to pick the traps from strange mechanisms.

Unless you make traps have two classifications
1) made by a rogue (most epic traps)
2) made by a ranger (traps which involve some sort of ensnarement)

let rogues be able to disarm rogue traps
let rangers be able to disarm ranger traps :)


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:32 am 
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Plz add stats an m4d l00tZ 2 rangr!!!!!!111


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:57 pm 
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Just an idea, perhaps rangers should get a skill which does one of the following:
Improves balance regeneration like equilibrium
Slows balance drain like inner peace
Raises attackroll
Raises mobility

I would opt for either an equilbrium style skill, possibly equilibrium at a lower percent than warrior, or a skill to raise attackroll. I would think that they would be able to gain their balance rather quickly from the skills of running through the woodlands, probably running up partially-fallen trees and going up into the canopies to get a good shot at their prey. I would also think they would work on their precision with weapons in order to hunt. I would most likely save a mobilty raising skill to rogues, although they already have one...in a sense...tumble. A slower balance drain could also come from their great endurance that they would gain from moving through the forest.

Any of these skills would make rangers a much stronger class, especially a melee support class.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 10:54 pm 
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Quintos wrote:
Just an idea, perhaps rangers should get a skill which does one of the following:
Improves balance regeneration like equilibrium
Slows balance drain like inner peace
Raises attackroll
Raises mobility


Then pick a class that has these types of benefits. Just because you want RNG/MAGE/CLERIC doesn't mean Ranger should get all the skills it's missing out from not choosing WAR as one of your classes.

You people seem to think that because one class lacks the skills another does, some compensation should be made.

Get real. If you want a fighting machine, pick warrior; want the diversity of a ranger, pick a ranger and lose out on some hard-core battle skills. Simple as that. If you want an ass-kicking ranger, pick warrior as another class. Don't ask to be handed the skills a class doesn't normally get.

If every class were exactly comparable to each other, what would be the point of multi-classing? Seriously? Tri-avs are already incredibly powerful, and you want more? This needs to be dropped, because quite frankly, all classes are whacky and picking them apart one at a time is a waste of time (and counter-productive)... much less the 'stimulating' arguements brought on by it.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 11:49 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:03 pm
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Err...I don't play a ranger and I don't plan on it, but from what I've heard they're severely underpowered. I was just giving possible ideas for what they could get.

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Quintos Aelon, Progenitor of the Aelon line


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