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Dark Legacy MUD Forum • View topic - racial imbalances




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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:49 pm 
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My pixie is 19'2"...20' soon :) I like warmonger.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:51 am 
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Just a short question, it is something that has bothered me for awhile. How can a 19 ft pixie, that still weighs around 30-40 lbs, so any real damage? I mean wouldn't a stiff wind blow them over?:)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:59 am 
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same as a troll thats 40 pounds

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 Post subject: me
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 8:01 am 
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You are 9'1" and weigh 263 pounds.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 1:01 pm 
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This is what i think

Troll: Scrap em
Dwarf: Scrap em
Phasian: Scrap em
Orc: Scrap em
Gerp: Scrap em
Lizardmen: Scrap em
Ogre: Scrap em
Elf: Scrap em
Pixie: Keep em
Gnome: Scrap em


OK I like this setup because it means -I- dont have to adapt! YAY :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 6:49 pm 
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Here is an idea that might bring the races into a more realistic balance, I thought I wold post to get some feedback on. I got the idea from an earlier post that stated how little difference there was between a pixie’s HP, mana, movement, and any other race with the same classes. I gave this some thought, and I think I know why this is so. The bonus to Hp, etc. seems to cap at 18 when leveling to tri-av. This is a very easy stat to reach even with the most basic mob eq.

What if the bonus to HP, mana, and movement was capped at 25 and a 2 for 1 race penalty/bonus applied. A pixie with –4 to con would get –8 to this cap for a max HP bonus of 17 to HP when making a level. Only 50 points less than the max they can get now. But the races with a high con bonus could get 500 more hit points than a pixie by the time they made it to tri-av, provided they got good eq along the way. This would make a noticeable difference between the races at epic levels. But with the amount of damage received at this level of play, not too great a difference.

Well, its out there for you all to discuss, let me hear what you think, I am sure you will.

One last thought, the races could be given a difficulty rating, just like we do now for classes, so new players will not make a race choice they may be unhappy with latter.

Arureal The absent-minded Elf


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 2:24 am 
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Okay okay. Now, I've read a bunch of this .. stuff, though I didn't read all of it.. because I don't want to. Because it bores me to read the same thing over,and over, and because I really don't have the bloody time.

Now. Kiasyn. Please, if you don't have anything productive to post, DON'T POST. Your just going to anger people.. like me. People that don't want to see random..... whatever the opposite of serious is.. (I'm really freakin tired) among so much serious, well written posts.

And. Don't flame each other. There is no need for that. Our opinions are going to differ, that's life. Don't flame over it.

Now. Gnomes and Pixies are too powerful.
Elfs are alright.
I have a voider, but I don't play him much.. he's too freakin slow, and I like magic.

Now, I know the most about phasians than I do about any other race, as Tuler, my main is a phasian.

Now I looooooooooooooooooooved RW outta battles. I didn't use it too often, but I did use it. It was very, VERY handy. It was removed. Now we have rw without a pillar... this.. allows.. us to cast recall...... great. :)

No more flaming. It's totally pointless. No more crappy posts. That's why I posted this... :)

Races need to be balanced. Very much.


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 Post subject: yes
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 3:48 pm 
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and i will point out, lizardmen have more than just 'affected aqua breath' as a special ability :)

for those of you who have not figured it out, then too bad, but lizardmen and elves are a very well balanced class by themselves.


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 Post subject: Re: yes
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:41 pm 
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Isabelle wrote:
and i will point out, lizardmen have more than just 'affected aqua breath' as a special ability :)

for those of you who have not figured it out, then too bad, but lizardmen and elves are a very well balanced class by themselves.


No they arent. You are wrong. Just because you are an immortal doesn't mean you are always right. Many times I have proven you wrong, and when I do, the only thing that ends up happening is you ignore it from that point forward.

I dont care how prideful people are in playing their races, look at it objectivly, and you see the truth.

Read this thread a few more times, Isabelle. The races are not equal.
End of story.


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 Post subject: excuse me?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2004 12:30 am 
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since you obviously are ignorant to lizardman abilities, i will again say, lizardmen and elves are equally balanced by themselves.

oh, and btw, the only reason why i eventually stop responding to your flames, are simply because hey, i dont much care, i do my best to explain to people reading how things are, once i have accomplished that, i leave it to them to figure out what they want to do.
You will invariably always contradict me for the sole purpose of attempting to start a fight, and i'm sure pretty much everyone recognizes that.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2004 1:52 am 
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I don't start fights, I just lay down the facts. This thread proves that.

I time and time again just responded how it is, if you can't read it and see it how it is, thats not my problem. I feel like I am repeating myself, please go back and read my posts, as you obviously either skimmed them or didn't read them at all.

And you keep mentioning lizardman abilities. Wow, big deal? Who cares?

If they are on par with Elves, they are too powerful. Every single race is unbalanced except a few, which you would understand well if you read my posts.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2004 5:49 am 
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Long live the Gith, fools!

Actually, a LOT is imbalanced on this MUD. A LOT. You might as well scrap everything, cept code, and I'll explain why.

A good portion of content on this MUD is left over from its SMAUG days. But it's no longer SMAUG, it's JADE- so it automatically doesn't mesh well.

Every time you change something in an established medium, you will ALWAYS unbalance something else. Always.

Classes are almost meaningless, considering you can pick just about any 3 and still be a productive player, and races are totally outta whack (to say the least).

Let's not even get started on equipment and mobs. A large portion of items/mobs have become either completely useless, or f---ed up. Especially with removal of anti-align flags everyone pretty much ends up the same (not saying that a lack of anti-flags is bad, only it's been done in a system that uses it to balance itself).

The core of the MUD has changed, and the content surrounding it hasn't.* This is the problem. And it's a large undertaking to fix.

So instead of whining about one race being more powerful than another, aim to fix everything.

*(EDIT: I realised this statement isn't completely true. A lot of content has changed, actually, so lemme rephrase this:
The core of the MUD has changed, and not all of the content surrounding it has changed with it.)


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 Post subject: gotta agree there jorelani
PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2004 6:16 am 
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yup, personally, i wouldnt mind totally changing everything, but that decision is celeborns, and i'm sure there will be 'ALOT' of complainers if we even mentioned it :)

heck, i was threatened and insulted daily, just because of the combat change :)

but ya, i'd like to see a huge ground breaking change, start from scratch kinda type idea :)

classless, no eq restrictions (except in very rare cases), very minimal race adjustments.
replace the whole 'increase your skills by practicing them' and replace it with 'spend experience points to increase skills'


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2004 6:31 am 
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The only thing I would probably want to be transferred over would be guilds. Leader positions secured.

It'd help in the long-run for the MUD. The true players will still come back for the game itself. I would not be opposed to this, and would probably begin playing again. (Not necessarily a pro for some, ha.)


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 Post subject: Re: gotta agree there jorelani
PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2004 7:32 am 
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Isabelle wrote:
replace the whole 'increase your skills by practicing them' and replace it with 'spend experience points to increase skills'


if i wanted to play diablo2, i would. i dont. i like playing here.


all that needs to be done is the race bonuses re-evaluated and then the class bonuses re-evaluated. and then the gear situation. in that order.


dont base the revamps around elves. you guys need to tune the bonus numbers down, seriously. 20-25% of anything is too much. honestly.

but please, in whatever change you make, dont make it so everyone has to go and make new characters. no one likes doing that. honest.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2004 8:43 am 
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Chances are it won't happen. So don't sweat it.

Just from a developmental point of view. Best case scenario.


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 Post subject:
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Meh is correct.

Balance needs to be taken one step at a time.

If you do everything all at once, you have the same problem as before, you will have balance problems that need to be repaired one at a time.

Even Zeraphin has stated the same in this thread. You cannot do it all at once, every problem needs to be adressed one at a time.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2004 10:45 pm 
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If we did a classless system wouldn't that involve a Pwipe? And didn't Cele say he would NEVER do that? Cause.. if we did a classless or raceless or whatever system... then... the old chars would either have to be destroyed, or could be kept, but that would be a lil odd..

I doubt there would be an isabelle sized chage (the size she wants), though it seems that Isa is very, very into changing the entire mud.. but that really hasn't happened... but isa, your bound to get complaints with any change.


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 Post subject: nod tuler
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 1:24 am 
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yeah, its no biggy, i'm just dreaming anyways :)

and you're correct, theres no real need to wipe players, even if there were ground breaking changes, celeborn would just code in a conversion code to bring old players in line with the new way.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 6:27 am 
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weems wrote:
Balance needs to be taken one step at a time.

If you do everything all at once, you have the same problem as before, you will have balance problems that need to be repaired one at a time.

Even Zeraphin has stated the same in this thread. You cannot do it all at once, every problem needs to be adressed one at a time.


I beg to differ. There is always more than one method for any means. However, what I described would be the most effecient, cut-and-dry method. I said an engineer's dream (back to the drawing board, would be the common phrase). I'm not saying it's practical in all situations. Especially when dealing with an established playerbase.

The magic system works. It's because the previous spells were completely scrapped and redone as a whole (and slowly tweaked over time). But the rest of the MUD? Races/classes, all thrown out of whack because of it.

The crafting system works (the new one, anyway). But the effect of that would be old in-game items getting outta whack.

Follow me so far? Isabelle would like to start from scratch because it'd be like starting over with EVERYTHING. Would everything be balanced automatically? No, but it could be far more balanced than it is, since every step would be considerate of an existing factor. The MUD can be evaluated as a whole rather than little bits at a time, which is where one begins to lose sight of it all.

Could you balance it bit by bit? Yeah. Sure. But eventually you're going to have to change something someone doesn't agree with anyways. It's pointless to argue otherwise. And if you change things bit by bit, you'll find it's much harder to accomplish, much more time consuming in the long run.

Since I've hijacked this thread to kingdom-come, I apologize.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 1:16 pm 
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Jorelani wrote:
weems wrote:
Balance needs to be taken one step at a time.

If you do everything all at once, you have the same problem as before, you will have balance problems that need to be repaired one at a time.

Even Zeraphin has stated the same in this thread. You cannot do it all at once, every problem needs to be adressed one at a time.


I beg to differ. There is always more than one method for any means. However, what I described would be the most effecient, cut-and-dry method. I said an engineer's dream (back to the drawing board, would be the common phrase). I'm not saying it's practical in all situations. Especially when dealing with an established playerbase.

The magic system works. It's because the previous spells were completely scrapped and redone as a whole (and slowly tweaked over time). But the rest of the MUD? Races/classes, all thrown out of whack because of it.

The crafting system works (the new one, anyway). But the effect of that would be old in-game items getting outta whack.

Follow me so far? Isabelle would like to start from scratch because it'd be like starting over with EVERYTHING. Would everything be balanced automatically? No, but it could be far more balanced than it is, since every step would be considerate of an existing factor. The MUD can be evaluated as a whole rather than little bits at a time, which is where one begins to lose sight of it all.

Could you balance it bit by bit? Yeah. Sure. But eventually you're going to have to change something someone doesn't agree with anyways. It's pointless to argue otherwise. And if you change things bit by bit, you'll find it's much harder to accomplish, much more time consuming in the long run.

Since I've hijacked this thread to kingdom-come, I apologize.


People will disgaree with changes whether they are done all at once or a bit at a time. The purpose of this thread is not to find out the easiest and least harmful way to change the game, it's to get it balanced.

I couldn't care less if players whine about racial changes or not, I really don't care. I just want to see them done correctly one way or another, and I don't think you need to start over to balance the MUD.

Sure, starting over could lead to a lot of fun things, but is it really nesceserry for the game to be a balanced place? I really don't think so.

Anyway, so what do people think of my ideas on racial changes? :roll:


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Weemster, you noob, lizardmen are perfectly balanced. Isa's right, they don't just have aqua breath, they have TAILS, and what do tails do? They help you balance! You should learn to stop doubting Isabelle's infinite wisdom and stop complaining about the perfectly balanced races. You noob.

On an unrelated note, the world is flat and the moon is made of cheese.

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 Post subject: btw
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 6:39 pm 
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just clarification - my note was not meant to say we would 'start from scratch' meaning player/equipment wipe, that was totally not my intention.

what i did mean was starting the classes and races from scratch, in so much as we would first say ok, heres all the races *striiiiip* ok, now they are all the same, then saying, heres all the classes *striiiip* ok, gone, now here's a skill system, and pixies will get the ability to specialize in magic without spending skill points (as a base) and our friends the trolls will get the ability to specialize in swords without spending skillpoints (as a base)


but anywho, thats what i meant, celeborn can make a rebirthing type idea like he did last time (if he wanted to go that route)

oh, and just a side note - i wouldn't mind seeing all the races removed, and replaced with say 4 custom races unique to dark legacy, since races wouldnt really be a major factor in creating a character, you wouldnt need 8+ races, you only need a couple, that can be tailored to your desires.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 6:46 pm 
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actually, that's a good idea.

i'd like to see at least one unique ability for each race, though( i want to play a regenerating troll that DOESN'T suck, unlike trolls we have now)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:43 am 
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hey! are you saying that this ol troll sucks?!!! (don't answer)


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