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 Post subject: Classless system
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 4:05 pm 
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Isabelle wrote:
classes = gone
races = receive a couple skills inherant to their racial profile, so race 1 gets cool cooking prowess as a innate main skill, race 2 gets melee combat/staves as a main skill, etc
skill points given out every level / couple of levels
skill points are given to the skills to boost them
equipment would have level / skill requirements to use
there would be x amount of max skills, to prevent a player from being specialized in all skills. (so you could be a pure mage, or a mage / fighter, or a fighter cook, with some minor magic skill, etc


I'm all for this. A classless system allows for true customization, your character develops the way you want it to, instead of just choosing from a list of pre-designed templates.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:27 pm 
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Aye, me and Weems were working on implementing this into a MUD we might have made if we had a better work ethic. It allows for a truly unique character, and is more like real life.

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 Post subject: Re: Classless system
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:14 pm 
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*re-worded below*


Last edited by Jorelani on Mon Feb 21, 2005 6:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 8:17 am 
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yes but with classless limitless system,

You could play a farm boy who spends 10 hours fighting with melee but then switches to magic training and learning and gets 20 hours of magic in. So then although he started off as a warrior, he can still gain more intelligence as a mage.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 4:14 pm 
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This idea has been thrown around a bit on OOC and avtalk and I think the general consensus is that although it would be nice, it would take too much work for Celeborn to write the code and do everything he would have to. I hope he likes the idea and he does it though because it would bring some fun back into the game.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 4:57 pm 
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A major problem wouldn't be coding the system itself, but converting existing characters from the old class system to the new class system.

Class-less system really isn't "classless" .. Its more "multiclass" .. Although you remove the term and make specific groupings of skills, those groupings essentially become the class. Ie, if you only study combat, you're a warrior. If you study magic, a mage. Study both, you're a combat mage, etc.

Its a more fluid system, and one I would support, but needs a lot of work. You have to make sure each grouping of skills, or "spheres", or whatever you want to call them "professions, " don't overpower each other. Ie, if a pure mage can throw 500 damage fireballs, the pure warrior needs to be able to take more damage and stick it out in the long run.

The prism magic system has half-way completed the conversion to a classless system, when you really get down to it. To convert magic full, you'd only have to change the system to be more similar to what I remember of the craft system.. ie, you can specialize in x skills/spheres/etc, but not all of them. So you could do 100% combat, 50/50 combat/magic, or 100% magic. (And yes, I'm overly simplifying things)

Make it so that you can only train one complexity to 100%, etc. Or you could have two complexities at 50% instead. Etc.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 3:55 pm 
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Wow, another useless trend. Most new MUDs out there have this mindset already in place, some already use it. The idea of having the ability to customize your character to how you see fit is indeed a nice idea, but it's highly overplayed. You'll find it on mostly non-RP MUDs, since alot of people RP with their classes as well as their races.

I honestly can't see a reason to get rid of classes, yet, keep the idea of customizing your spells/skills...wow, look you can do that now with spells. I may admit that it's not that advanced right now, but implement items (pre-requisites, base components with a rate that's extremely low either as an area pop or a mobile pop item) other than runes to make spells unique. Also, give a player a customization screen in which they can add points to their skills. This way, you can still have two mages but one can go into the fire class while the other can do the ice class....dun dun DUN! I smell a Diablo 2 rat floating around.

This seems like an idea that would require alot more than discussion before the masses would take to it as being a good thing. I've seen people completely change the code and lose over half their player base because they didn't conference with the mortal populus beforehand (ask Realms of Despair what happened when they implemented 2.0v without as much as player testing to find out what worked and what people liked/disliked). The forums are good for this, alot can be discussed, but you would need alot of coding, player testing on another port, and meetings with the mortals before even introducing it to the rest of the world.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:07 pm 
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For the record, class-less systems are NOTHING NEW. Its only new to you if you've only played on SMAUG based games (Btw, RoD is the original SMAUG game). Several of the others, godwars, circle, rom, are drasticly different.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 7:37 pm 
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I never did say they were new, I said most new MUDs. I've played on more than one codebase before ;)

I merely stated that it's something that's being and been overdone, both now and in the past. The idea in itself has been around for quite a while now, most of which originated from console games like Diablo II.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 7:59 pm 
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Diablo II is hardly the source of these ideas. Its merely a very visible graphical application of the ideas.. And its hardly a class-less game.

MUDs date back long before Diablo II. I don't understand why people think D2 was such an innovative game or the first game to use these concepts. Its merely a successful game.. not the first of its kind. The original Diablo wasn't even that original.. It was based off another game, who's name escapes me at the moment.

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 Post subject: btw
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:25 pm 
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for what its worth, i based my ideas of a classless system on asherons call, for the sole reason that it was so better balanced than what we have :)

That, and i don't like being part of a 'well you have picked mage, you must now always be mage' type idea.

I like the idea of you being whatever your skills say you are, if you want to pump a bunch of skill into healing magic, and cooking, cool, you would be the equivalent of a cleric/master cook.

but you wouldnt be trapped in a name category.

maybe you would have a ton of skill in offensive magic, and a ton of skill in lockpicking, and a bit more in making arrows for archers, i just like it :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 4:23 pm 
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I am for the class-less system. It's nice to actually be able to customize your character and pick what it's good at. For example, I would sacrifice some of my Oracle's magic ability for even a little melee presence; it'd be nice if I could actually do that.

And as for the class-less system being used on non-RP MUDs predominately, I disagree. I, as a roleplayer elsewhere, would appreciate the opportunity to have a unique character to play with. Right now, my Pixie Oracle is just like every other Pixie Oracle. Maybe someone has more ultra runes than I, and maybe I have more spells in my spellbooks than another; but we're all the same. I'd appreciate customization.

As for how to port old characters into the new system, I suggest a rebirth type of thing. Each elevel will give a person so many skill points, whether it's 1 point, .25 points, or some other number. Also, each 'regular' level will give a percentage of a skill point. This will allow the old characters to be powerful in the new system without having (too many) problems with power; it'd be fair.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 6:55 am 
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what about adding it as it's own seperate class?
why abolish the current charicters and classes (or have the trouble of porting them), this class could be implimented at a later date as the new class to end all need for any other classes.
Perhaps it would a good idea to make this class non-multiclass, being that they would already be fairly diverse...
Though that seems a bit lacking, perhaps the charicter is allowed to multi-class in a sense that they rebirth and are given more feats to choose from? Just unable to combine with any of the existing classes.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:30 pm 
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Classless muds have been around at least since Circle (although they were kinda cruddy) but since D2 they have become more popular, I belive that is what Kari is saying, not that D2 is the originator. To be quite honest, classless muds usually end up becoming very stagnate after a while, certain skills always out-do others, so after a while everyone makes chars with all the 'best' skills. A class based system spreads useful skills out, even in a multiclass system like DL currently has, it is impossible to get -all- of the good skills. (Ok I suppose if you define all the good skilss as like 3 things you can, but lets be reasonable).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 11:16 pm 
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I've been working on a classless system from stock SMAUG code, it's quite an easy concept (and subsequently, easy to code). I'm sure changing the JADE codebase to a classless system would be much more of a hassle and troublesome... to which I don't blame Cele for not wanting to do it.

Very similar to what was quoted from Isa in the first post, actually.

Every beginning PC will have a solid and unchangable amount of skill points to use up as they progress... only until lvl 50 will they be able to buy more points for character customization. While earning practice points to hone skills, they cannot lvl.

The skills available to a starting PC will depend on their initial stats (ranging from 3 to 15). Dependent upon the skill's requirements will they be able to begin and study each skill to a certain tier, AKA skill lvl. A skill may require more than one stat to be up to par to even begin.

A PC may only learn the skill after obtaining a tome in which they study (obtainable through quests and whatnot, a PC simply does not suddenly have skills to practice). A skill requires an initial cost to start and a progressive sub-cost to adept. The higher the skill tier, the more it will cost to adept it overall. It may take over a thousand practice points to adept only one skill to tier 5, and one only earns practice points by fighting creatures at or above their lvl.

This stretches out lvling and skill adepting to the point where one player may need a solid month to even hit 50, and much more if one wants to expand their abilities.

For character diversity, perks will be chosen by the PC at creation, and such things as racial benefits will also play a major role. Anti-flags based on alignment (not just evil/good, but also faction based). For every race a nation is present, all equipped with their own lowbie areas and high lvl areas, and the universal areas in which all nations interact through (a social hub, if you will) to intice trade, commerce, and PK (yummy).

I may work it to where remorting will sort of fold over your character. That is to say, in order to evolve, you must take a step back and start again, with new perks and abilities. Essentially, be reborn, but with the knowledge of your past life... (previous skills and stats intact, but low-lvl and with stat bonuses)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 8:22 pm 
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i think the multiclass per character greatly contribute to the imbalances in the game. I like to see each character as one single class only. It would be alot easier to balance the classes that way too.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:59 am 
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Yeah. But limitations can be in place to keep players from becoming uber.


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