Dark Legacy MUD Forum

and what would that do? most paladins who dual wield adepts are conjurers anyways(i have two pixie paladins, and only the one who is a conjurer uses adepts).

also, restricting magic- or fighting- boosting items to "pure" casters or fighters defeats the purpose of hybrid characters

NO!! Why should a paladin get a penalty just for being a paladin? And besides, like Nuitari said, pretty much any Paladin that uses staves of the adept already has at least mage as a class as well, making the Staves caster class only would just pointlessly penalize first class paladins.

so whats your fix then?

i was just trying to understand what you guys want, i'm having a hard time figuring it out.

the only one who thinks anything needs fixing is that aia-something person. he's unhappy about staves of the adept giving characters with dual wield higher complexities than oracles, which he apparently conisders to be the game's "pure" caster epic class. in my opinion, and i believe weemster's as well, this isn't something that really needs to be fixed, and it especially doesn't need to be fixed by taking away the ability of hybrid classes to use staves.

if aia-whatever won't accept this, there's always the idea of making epic class-specific bonuses. an oracle's bonus could be a small bonus to all complexities, which would give them the highest complexities in the game. if this is something that can feasibly be done, and you are willing to implement it, i have ideas for some of the epic classes' bonuses, and we can all think up ones for the rest of the classes instead of arguing.

what's your idea for an acrobat?

perhaps a speed bonus and a dex or ac bonus?

Some bonuses I thought of, probably not all balanced and need tweaking, but here they are:

Acrobat: speed bonus, bonus to dex and max dex
Arcane Templar: reduced spell failure penalty for wielding weapons
Battlemage: significant bonus to mr-piercing roll
Conjurer: small bonus to spell casting speeds
Dungeon Delver: bonus to chestfind and goldfind
Hostpitaler: bonus to healing spells
Juggernaut: damage reduction bonus, bonus to strength and max strength
Oracle: small bonus to all complexities
Shaman: small reduction to spell costs
Spiritualist: mr bonus, bonus to wisdom and max wisdom

Well, I personally think this should start a new topic. However I will test it in this one first. It is a Paladin skill, after all.

We all know that Turning is a fairly weak skill. There is nothing we can do to enhance it either. Oh yeah, we can level! But will it ever be useful against mobs that are actually challenging to us (ie... higher level then us), nope. Not as long as things stay the same.

I recommend changing the skill into a Spell Idol for both Clerics and Paladins to use. It would of course be the Divine spell school. This way we could add Fecs to make it more powerful, Rgy to allow use to use it more often, ect.....

I would however like the spell to somehow still incorperate the customizable Turning Phrase. I just love screaming "Klato Veratta Nickto!" and having undead squirm in pain.

I like it!

My turncry is "DIE EVIL TURKEY!!!"

First things first. My name is aiutau. A-I-U-T-A-U... it's not hard.

And I think that Oracles are the 'pure' magic epic class? Well, that's because they DO NOTHING BUT MAGIC. Their classes are all geared to Magic. There is no reason for a Conjurer, with a main class that is geared towards fighting, to have be able to cast better than a character with classes geared towards magic. And even if the Conjurer isn't first class Paladin, Paladin is still the main class; what's the point of Paladin in this compacity? Dual-wield. 'nuff said.

And why make turn better for Paladins? It's a pretty cool, yes. Paladins aren't as good as Clerics at it, yes. That's because they have to concentrate on fighting as well as ritualized killing by envoking your holy symbol. Why don't you give Paladins all the skills of all the classes? That'd be pretty cool, too. Also, it's not completely crappy; there is a certain MOB in an high-leveled area in a no-magic room with a pretty decent piece of EQ on it that binds.

And I think Staves of the Adept would be good to be anti-Paladin; it'd make things more inline. While that's not all that should be done to balance the class, I don't know much about the class outside of that context. I just know it's unfair for Conjurers, with their better fighting ability, to be better at magic than Oracles.

Conjurers basically make Oracles obsoluete, with Oracles already being weak by themselves. They don't need the help.

how well can a conjuror conjur?

Aia-whatever, please get out of our forums. That is all, thank you.

Aiu-person, last I checked, Clerics got a higher divine skill then Paladins. Wouldn't that mean they would get a better Turn spell then Paladins? Also, have I been here slamming you yet? Well I sure can start, I can slam flames with the best. Why? I like to use cold hard logic and fact.

Fact: Dual-wielding weapons in combat, and expecting to cast spells gives near suicidal lag.
Myth: The couple complexity that you gain from dual-wielding staves will keep you alive despite the lag.

Fact: Its a runeword.
Myth: Everyone knows it, can get it, has two, and uses them.

Fact: Turn is useless for EVERYONE not just Paladins
Myth: Turn is cool

Fact: Almost none of a Paladin's special spells work correctly.
Myth: Paladins get all kinds of uber-cool stuff

Fact: If the Oracles and Conjurers both have empty hands to reduce lag on spells, Oracles win the magical combat. If a Conjurer doesn't have both hands empty, he will be cut down by lag.
Myth: Oracles are completely helpless to Conjurers.

Fact: If a Warrior/Rogue/Paladin couldn't use Staff of Addept he would be unfairly punished for no good reason.
Myth: Making them Anti-Paladin is a great idea.

Fact: That I should need to point any of the above points out annoys me.
Myth: Vogar likes to debate with people.

In general, Vogar's right, but to point out a few things:

1. Its Aia-whatever, not Aiu-person. Learn to spell

2. Paladins actually get higher divine than clerics, about 50% more, but this is their only "secondary" complexity(most real "caster" classes have two), they have no "primary" complexity, and the rest of their complexities suck completely. A paladin gets as much divine as a mage gets basic or enchantment, and it's downhill from there.

3. Dual wielding adepts not only raises lag, but spell failure rate as well. An Oracle with empty hands will cast several times as quickly, and suffer much lower spell failure rates.

4. A barehanded conjurer will get the crap beaten out of him by a barehanded oracle. The conjurer gets inferior speed, inferior MR, inferior healing, and the only things he gets better are....bless and warmonger, which aren't going to help a caster much. A conjurer dual-wielding adepts will get raped even harder. Conjurers are for enchanting, sigil making, and astraling to acd, your non-combat casters. Oracles are the casters who actually make decent main characters and can fight and epic effectively(though with AMS, capped complexities, and absurd MR on epic mobs, the game is rigged against pure casters now)

5. You seem to think that oracles are somehow "pure" casters, and conjurers should be inferior in every way to oracles simply because you think one of their classes is too warrior-like. For starters, psionicist isn't a pure caster class; they have 60% in swords(as opposed to 10% that REAL casters get) and a few other combat-related perks. If you want to be a "pure" caster, be a mage/cleric/druid. The fact that you have psionicist shows that you are willing to sacrifice a "pure" caster class to get higher complexities; which is exactly what conjurer does, they just do it to a higher degree than you. Furthermore, it is mages who create sigils, enchant weapons, cast offensive spells, etc, NOT some epic class combination. You get three classes in this game, if you take mage, you are just as much an "enchanter" and offensive spell caster as anyone else who takes mage. Taking cleric instead of paladin doesn't make you any more of a mage or offensive caster, it just makes you a cleric and defensive caster as well.

6. Just because someone else can get higher complexities than you doesn't mean the imms need to change the game so that it can perfectly mirror what you think it should be. My first character after the "new" races and racial bonuses were introduced was an elven oracle. I had all the problems modern oracles have, PLUS my max complexes were 74, instead of the vaunted 85 pixies get. Did I bitch and whine like you do? No. I made a new character who better suited what I wanted to play, and who was, in my opinion, more powerful. Nothing is stopping you from making a conjurer.

7. Since you are viewing everything on the "epic class" level, you should support my idea of epic class based bonuses. It would give oracles the best complexities without making them dual wield and take insane penalties to speed and failure rate. It would pretty much give you exactly what you want, without hurting anyone else.

8. Taking out staves of the adept would hurt all casters, as those staves are the only way to reach beyond your otherwise maximum complexities, and they do a good bit to help pierce MR as well. Everyone would also be stuck with inferior sigils and enchant weapon spells, and the Imms would probably have to track down and "confiscate" all remaining 24- and 25-strength sigils.

Ello my name is Cardowin and I was wonder what are the most usefull paladin spells to conjure, like which ones get the most use? So just a nice list of the ones I should conjure and leave the rest. Thanks in advance to people who post

Thanks Vogar!!!
And what Runes would you add to those Prisms/Idols????

ter > dis. *cough* armplates of the shifting light *cough*

Hi again I have read the soulbind helpfile and still am confused on racial runes which runes do i need if im an elf that what i think u mean when u say what race they will be cast on??? so again where would i find/get these racial runes?

Ice runes vs Air runes? HAH! Everyone with common sense knows Air runes are better

Soulbind is a spell that creates a rune if you kill the creature while the spell is still on them. To identify a creature's race, cast deem on them. A elf is a humanoid shaped rune 'man'.

ice runes are better than air runes. most of the characters who are decent in the arena use armplates of the shifting light(which gives -20% cold resist), no commonly used mob eq grants cold resist(except elemental band, but few players wear those constantly), and few players bother enchanting cold resists. Everyone gets 10 air resist from eldritch sphere, and I wouldn't be surprised if most players start enchanting air resistances on their eq with all the conjurers who don't seem to know how to use any other elemental rune.

Fact: Turn Rocks.
Myth: Dwarves rock.

Do you really think this person is concerned with arena PvP? Which is more useful in epics? Air or Ter? Which is a mob more likely built to resist? Cold or Air?

Fact: Pixies are only good for one thing, and thats making jam. Well, thats if you debone them propperly.
Myth: Kiasyn is a guy.

Yeah i dont really care about arena more along the lines of PvM dont really find it worth while engaging someone in a duel, when i could be exploring alora or slaying an evil beast!!!