Dark Legacy MUD Forum

I am recreating this thread. As such, it will have a new format. Feel free to not post if you don't want to answer in the way I want you to

The other thread got heated and off course, too jumbled. So this isn't really a discussion thread. This is the "post your opinion and be gone" thread.

This is where you post, in one post (You aren't allowed to post again and I'll delete it if you do), what you think should be changed. YOU MUST BE SPECIFIC.

Do NOT worry about whether or not it might require coding.
Do NOT reply to other posts in this thread. One post only.

Tell us exactly what YOU would do to the various races that exist today.

1.I would recognize the various givens with every race.

In example:
Pixies are the best at magic.
Trolls are the worst at magic.

Just to name a few. The reason for this is to accept that from a roleplay and practical viewpoint, some races really are better at some things, and worse at others.

2. I would change the races to be less extreme than they are currently, while keeping the givens for each individual race. By less extreme, I mean less different from eachother, reducing both bonuses and penalties.

Less different means more balanced. Bonuses do not need to be large for races, nor do the penalties. It would effectivly reduce the power of the races, thereby making the game harder for some of the more overpowererd races, and easier for some of the worse ones. Racial choice would be more of a roleplay choice, which is how it should be. After all, race should really have no gargantuan impact on the long term power of your character. The impact there should be classes, and effort.

My changes to the races would be as followed:

Human Starsigns:
Voids: Leave as is, but make sure they can use regen potions and such.
Avatar: The problem with this race has more to do with the way favor works and less with the race itself. If there were other, more common ways to drop below 0 favor than changing deities, then this could be a balanced race.
Tower: +5 innate mobility, and 5 additional spaces on the map.
Furnace: +3 complexity to all.
Unicorn: Leave as is.
Clover: Leave as is.
Waterfall: Innate 99% instead of 25%, and in addition, make it not count against your resistance cap.
Cyclone: Same as waterfall.
Landslide: Same as waterfall.
Sun: Same as waterfall.
Moon: Just get rid of this one.
Fist: 2 AR innate, and +2 damage roll per level, ending at 2 AR and 100 damage roll at 50, totalling 21,000 enchant space. Thanks Avestifal.
Guardian Spirit: Remove maybe?
Comet: This is the one of the two that I no real ideas with.
Shadow: Remove.
Hospic: Leave as is.
Shield: Leave them the MR, and give them +2 mobility at the start, and 1 damage reduction per level until 50.
Reed: Remove.
Beauty: Remove.

Troll: -5% complexity. Leave the rest, might need to nerf their limb regen?

Dwarf: Leave as is.

Phasian: Make the sigil enchantable, with 6k space, that cannot be severed off. In addition, give them a command that allows them to 'cover their sigil', that gives them +6 luck for 10 mins, once per hour, and it would also raise their max luck by 6.

Orc: Leave the feral rage, and give them +5 HP per level up to 250. Thanks Avestifal

Gerp: Leave as is.

Lizardmen: This is the other one I had no good ideas with. Maybe some sort of tail attack? It would have to be pretty decent and usable though...Hmm...But then again, Isabelle keeps hinting that these are as good as Elves. If that is true, they would also have to be REDUCED in power.

Ogre: +5% Body magic, +2 Hp per level, up to 100.

Elf: +2% magical complexities, +5% nature magic.

Pixie: +5% magical complexities, leave the rest.

Gnome: Kill off the complexity bonus, leave the rest as is.

just gonna comment on the ones i've played:

pixie: 10% to all complexities, innate fly. If you kinshape both of these racial bonuses should be disabled until you return to pixie form.

Gnome/Shield human: one of them has to have magic resist removed. two races with 50 mr just doesn't work, and anything below 50 is utterly useless(currently).
If complexities for each race are changed: Human Shield Sign 30 MR
Gnomes: Remove the current MR, change all complexity bnous to 7%. Keep the innate identify. +1 bonus to all saves each level up to 20(replacement for mr). (note: their size is smaller then humans which is a disadvantage.)

Phasian: Keep current runewalk abilities. Give phasians the innate knowledge of pillars they should have, allowing them to add 20 extra pillar locations. Allow them to add the pillar on the astral planes, since they are the ones who created pillars.

Ogre: 5% body and physical complexity. Your basic warrior/mage/cleric race, nothing else needs to be changed.

Elf: 4% to all complexity, 7% to nature. They have Detect magic atm, Detect invis should be innate as well.

Dwarf: perfect as is.

Troll: -7% to all complexity(not to much, not to little), should still regenerate hp but only a chance of regenerating limbs(based on luck and level). Still has fire penalty.

i suggest having trolls -20% in complexities. 5-7% is too little. Trolls are supposed to barely able to use magic.

Get rid of racial complexity bonuses and penalties, skill at magic should not be directly dependent on race. Yes, elves tend to be better at magic than trolls...but that's because elves tend to be more intelligent and wise than trolls. If your elves and trolls have similar intelligence and wisdom, they should have similar spellcasting abilities.

This brings up an idea I suggested to Roje a year or so back, and was partially implemented. Make racial bonuses and penalties far larger, and make them apply to maximum values as well as initial values. This was intended so that pixies and gnomes could get -20 to their max str or some similar penalty to compensate for their absurd complexity bonuses. This would make a lot more sense than "you are a troll; you can't use magic as well as that pixie, even though you are a genius and he is borderline retarded".

I also think that epic levels should play a larger role than race in a character's power. Make the "your statistic cap has increased" message every 10 levels actually raise your max stats, but instead of raising them TO 50, have it raise them BEYOND 50. This way, players would eventually get extreme complexities like pixies have now, but they would have to WORK for it, and fewer players would have the superpowered spells.

Also enable players to epicbuy bonuses to specific complexities(ie: nature, body, physical, mind) in a manner similar to how they epicbuy stats now. You could come up with whatever formula you want for the cost, but as an example you could use "All complexities below 50 cost 10ep/complex. Beyond 50, the cost is 10ep + ([<complex> - 50]/2)ep". This would be more useful for bolstering your low complexities than further buffing the ones you already have high values in, making the game a bit more like the classless system some players want.

Finally, restrict the enchantment of resistances to one per piece of equipment, or something similar, and enable players to epicbuy resistances. As an example, you could "sell" resistances 10% at a time, with the ep cost of each 10% equal to the character's current epicbought value for that resistance(ie: your first 10% of slash resist costs you 10 points, after that you can buy another 10% slash for 20 points, or 10% fire resist for 10 points. With this progression it would cost 500 epic points to buy 99% resistance to something). This, combined with the limit on enchanting resists, would encourage players to spread resistances out and all but eliminate "immunity" to damage types. Raising your resistances through means other than epicbuy doesn't count towards the cost.

Obviously, this would put players who already have a large number of epic levels at a disadvantage, but this could be compensated for by giving them a one-time epic point bonus equal to a small percentage of their current epic level(perhaps 10 or 20 percent).

i removed a couple notes because they started getting into a discussion - rules for this topic are posted in the first message.

Alright, I thought it was about time I posted on this topic. Managed to resist a long while, but that other thread just got me to worked up.

Let me begin by saying that I believe Races should not nessacarily be balanced with EACH OTHER, but within themselves. If you compared any ONE races to the 'old human norm' you could say: "Yes race X has such and such a bonus, and such and such a negative. I like humans better, don't need to worry about strengths and weakness" So it is my belief that for every bonus given to a race, an equally strong disadvantage should be given.

However, lets be realistic. A 100% revamping of races likely won't happen. Tweaking on the best and the worst races likely will happen. So these are the changes I would recommend for another try at balancing out the races.

Lets start with Dwarf. Now I know everyone will say "Yeah, cuz you play a dwarf." However, I plan to go aphabetically through the races.


Dwarves as they are have decent utilitarian skills for crafting. This has drawn a heck of a lot of dwarves to the game. However, their only purpose is to craft items. For the most part these item crafters/miners rarely level past 30, fewer reach Avatar, only a handful are Tri-Avatar, and less then that epic. Why? They don't have any combat skills for either magic or melee. For survival in epic, thats a disadvantage.

What needs to be done to dwarves? We don't need to encourage people to become dwarves, we need to encourage them to level their current dwarves. We do this by giving them a little bit of a combat bonus.

Dwarf: Mine Prospecting, Regen while Drunk (its only cute, not useful for combat), 'Feral Rage' like effect while drunk.

I would recommend +0.1 Attack per level (max +5attack), +3 damage every other level (Max +75damage), -1 wis/int every tenth level (max -5) and finially -0.1 mobility per level (max -5 mobility) for the "Drunken Rage"


Now onward to Elf. I would leave them basically the way they are. I like how their magic is specialized into a certain area. However, I would give them one small bonus just to make them slightly more fun to Roleplay. Give them the innate ability to barter for a better price with mobs, like bards can do now. (both selling and buying, however)


Its Gerps next. Almost forgot these little guys. Had to come back and write them in. That says something about their fame, no?

Gerp: Everything they have now, plus Mine Prospecting. HECK, the whole reason they are gerps is they were the dwarves that mined in radioactive mines! Would add a little something to the game to have two mining races anyway, especially when one can eat rocks and the other drinks too much ale.


Time for the infamous Gnome race. What would I do? I would remove all that nasty magic complexity completely and do something simular to elves. Gnomes like to tinker with items and magic, hence they would be very well schooled in Enchantment. They would also know a lot about items (lore). Lastly I feel that the weaker gnomes would all have died out from natural selection during their magical experiments leaving only those with Magic Resistance.

Gnomes: Innate Lore, Magic resistance +1 per level, +20% Enchantment Complexity

Halflings, another one I almost forgot. Whats that say about the race?

Halfling: Good as is. Maybe give innate skill with slings simular to the Phasians down below.


Human's turn now. This will be a long one indeed. I will need to go by starsign of course. The main problem with most Starsigns is that either the bonuses have no use once your Tri-Av and in epic, their negatives strongly out weigh the bonus, or the other starsigns are just SO much better.

Avatar: Favor stays max'ed, easier to become crowned

Beauty: As is, plus innate ability to charm mobs

Clover: Good as is

Comet: -2 pounds weight carriable per level (max -100 pounds) +1 speed every other level (max +25), This would be a perment effect (not activated effect) and would stack with current spells, potions and bard songs. Think 'Speedy Gonzales'.

Cyclone: +90% resist air (doesn't effect resist max), weapons and spell damage BECOMES air damage (A sword might still sever, but it does airnot slash damage), Astral walk for free, -20% resist blunt

Fist: +3 damage per level (Max +150), +1 attack

Furnace: +2 complexity every 10 levels (max +10 complexity), +25% mana cost

Guardian Spirit: halved costs for flee, supplicate, and recall. Also give +10% exp gain, +2 luck, -1 MR ever 2 levels (max -25 MR)

Hospic: Leave as is, and ammend so vamps work with hospic

Landslide: +90% resist blunt (doesn't effect resist max), weapons and spell damage BECOMES blunt damage (A sword might still sever, but it does blunt not slash damage), +2 DamRed per level (max +100), -20% resist air

Moon: forced into Werewolf at night. Regen (limp + HP), DamRed, and HP gain based on the phase of the moon(Closer to full the more they get). For a negative, Werewolf form uses Blood Points, if char gets vamp'ed they instantly die (removing the vampire effect upon slay).

Reed: +3 DamRed per level (max +150), +1 Mobility per 10 levels (max +5), -1 Damage every level (max -50)

Shadow: when activated: Invis -lvl 15, Sneak lvl 30, Hide lvl 40, Passdoor lvl 50. (Max would be Invis + Sneak + Hide + Passdoor at level 50) Negative: Mute when skill is activated (all channels)

Shield: +1 MR every other level (Max +25), +1 all saving throws every 5 levels (Max +10), -10% HP

Sun: +90% resist fire (doesn't effect resist max), weapons and spell damage BECOMES fire damage (A sword might still sever, but it does fire not slash damage), Immune Vampirism, +1 regen in sun per 2 levels (max +25) -20% resist cold

Tower: Ability to tell EXACT location on map (Long and Lat), see 5 spaces farther on map, +0.1 Mobility per 2 levels (max 2.5)

Voids: Immune magic, not able to cast magic, IMMUNE VAMPIRISM (or a mob-potion to cure them), (maybe make a mob-potion so they can regenerate limbs somehow? Maybe could call it "Concoction of glue and staples"?)

Waterfall: +90% resist cold (doesn't effect resist max), weapons and spell damage BECOMES cold damage (A sword might still sever, but it does cold not slash damage), Aquabreath, -20% resist fire


Lizardmen finially get there well earned attention.

Lizardmen: Aquabreath, GREATLY improved Balance (maybe x2 or x3 since they have tails!), Ability to secrete 10 sips of decent poison every 3 hours(a good poison please), +50% poison resist, -50% cold resist (they are cold-blooded after all)

Ogres the misunderstood giants that nobody plays. They have good balance, and are the model (along with Elf) of what a race should be. They just are not as cool as elves. We need to make them cooler.

Ogre: 10% stronger at physical and body magic, +10 HP per level (Max +500), +1 damage per level (Max +50), -50% resist electricity (easily hit by lightning?)


Orcs, I always liked the idea of playing an Orc. Almost made a Tri-av once using this race. Pixies slaughtered him too baddly though

Orc: 10% weaker at magic, Feral Rage whenever they BLEED, no extra damage from berserk or aggressive combat styles

I would also make Feral rage based more off level. Feral Rage is too powerful for lowbie and too weak for Tri-av. If it was on a level-based curve it would be better for game balance. Having it happen whenever your bleeding would help quite a bit more then an HP trigger.


Phasians who needs them anyway? Oh well, might as well balance them too...

Phasians: give them 99% skill max with Blowguns, and +5 attack roll with Blowguns. Also give them a +10% to mind complexities.


Pixies, the evil little imps of the game.

Pixie: +20% magic complexities and innate fly when NOT kinshaped. When kinshaped -0.1 mobility and -0.1 attack per level (max -5). (Why? because sudden change in size would make them clumsy.) -50% air resist (because air attacks would blow them around)