Dark Legacy MUD Forum

this is in regards to celeborns question about whether or not the players would consider a total wipe of everything.

A player wipe is a deletion of all players and their accounts, causing them to start from scratch.

All known bugs which cause unfairness would first need to be fixed.

Spells, classes, enchanting, combat, are things which would need to be looked at for balance.

Ah, NOOOO. MY STUFF!

Heheh well i think that would be alright...It will be a lot more fair that way

First off I lothe pwipes due to the negative impact it has on the unwilling so support would have to be very big.

My motivation is getting rid of some fundamental flaws in game code, which I can only get rid of by a pwipe, thereby improving the game quality on several levels and ending the neverending list of balancing patches. For more information:
http://forums.dark-legacy.com/viewtopic.php?t=862

Note that there are many variations to a pwipe that would achieve the above, one of which could be credits given based on an estimate of invested hours, which you could use to rebuild a character after the pwipe.

ya if not a complete pwipe we gotta do SOMETHING about this madness ^^

Isa opened the vote. She's more focused on in between player balance, while i'm talking about removing some fundamental broken issues.

For example, what I would do is remove the definition between normal and epic levels, handle classes differently, remove some pervasive but broken runes, delete all areas and related objects, topple combat, alter some of the more stupid combat aspects, etc.

These things are so invasive, that I name it as a pwipe, because thats what it would basically be. I'm pro reimbursement for effort put in though, no evil total pwipe-haha-sorry-for-your-efforts-have-fun-at-another mud. I've always been clear on where I stand pwipe wise.

i voted YES simply because i really dont have anything to loose... id hate to have to relearn staves again, but itd be worth it for a bugless system...

but for all those people who have gotten to such a high level (torrim, for example) itd be hard, id guess... but then again, im not those people, so i cant really speak for them

Ya im with you Chilli...I dont have much to lose but if it does happen i feel for those high level ppl that have put tens of thousands of hours into their characters ^^

I have played a long time as I am sure most people are aware. Yes I have some precious keepsakes I have gathered over that time that I would hate to see disappear. If I had to level again...no biggie...but if I lost Blackraven Guild, that has such a long and deep history, I would most likely just give up. If I could keep my home, guilds, pets, names, crafts. and gold then I would not mind a complete change requiring me to relevel all my characters. Somehow I doubt character reinbursement would include those items but one can hope and wish. I have faith in Celeborn and I will adjust to any change but the loss of those things. heh....wow thats more talking than I have done in months, time to shut up,

Sardonyx,
Matriarch of Blackravens

Damn you all and all the things you have to lose Only thing i wouldn't want to lose is my part-ownership of my guild

Some people have asked me this on msn. I've reworked it a bit but the basics are the same:a pwipe-with-reimbursement would give you:

- The ability to boost your characters and pets back to an approximation of its former glory as far as your credit and the new system allows.
- An x number of wishes/credits, comparable to your former wealth, which allow you to re-wish items, resources, pet eggs, whatever.
- A reservation to names you've used before. (character names, pet names, guild names).
- Deeds to replace guilds, citadels, shops, etc.
- Add anything I missed and insert a fair way of reimbursement here.

Such a conversion would obviously not be a one on one reimbursement, since I can only guesstimate how much credits something is worth. But it should be pretty comparable.

But anyhow, a pwipe is not happening without cooperation of most of the pbase, so you're probably safe.

I am very opposed to a player wipe. Although it may make things fair for all, it is not just (looking over this, i mean as in justice, not only) to those who have already worked hard learning the MUD and building their characters.
Although I do not play as much, a major change as large as this thread makes it seem would likely inspire me to start playing more. A player wipe would fill my heart with contempt for the injustice that took place. Unless I would be restored to my current glory as first or second strongest mage on the MUD, I would not like this idea. If I recieved back my two dragons, got some staves of the master, a good deal of gold, and some decent levelling eq, I would like it. >_>
Also, just an idea, why add some kind of tag such as heirloom that can be used a couple weeks before the partial-wipe? Each account would be able to mark 1-50 items (depending on combined level, and going up in exponential amounts once you get past e300) as heirlooms that would not be lost due to sentimental value. Although these items would be unusable, or at least give no advantage while equipped but be usable, they would serve to preserve all of our memories.
I also llike Celeborn's idea of wishes. Perhaps the wishes should be determined by number of rare pets, high epic levels (like top 20...past that is no accomplishment), powerful eq, 100% crafting skill, and gold. Of course they would have to waited properly so that certain players would have many and others would have few.
There is one large problem that I see that could arise however. If everyone decided they wanted to reach their former level, we would have a huge amount of people using the same areas, so unless we have new areas and alternatives to epic levelling, there is going to be a large amount of strife caused by complaints about stakes.

i should have reworded the vote a little bit, and added the other option, which is something we have considered a few times before. -

the game keeps going, the players dont disappear, but all items and levels and classes and races get converted into a new system.

you do not lose your identity, but at the same time, you change to a new way. (such as multiclassing being replaced with something else)

this won't happen without like a 90 percent support, but i will offer you guys alternatives to just leaving it alone, it would require accomplishing a 'starting over fresh' while still keeping everyone happy.

Just reword the vote by switching the texts around. OOOOoooOoOo look 14 for and 4 against!

^-^

If i were able to keep my characters, guild, levels, and some other stuff (age? ) i probably wouldn't mind. But if i were to lose my guild for example i'd probably leave . (And i have _absolutely_ no need/want to leave as it is )

I say a pwipe is stupid...It'll probally cause tons of people to quit dl (and what worth is the bugless system if nobody plays?) Lots of us have worked hard for what we have right now...perhaps wipeout certain things but not the players...And if the guilds are wiped as well then the game will suck very badly cause as i've heard guilds are hard to start (and cost money that some won't have after a wipe)

And if i lose my citadel then i'll be really mad >_<

i like the idea of wiping all items and area's while keeping all the things such as crafting and levels, it takes ages to level and craft, while it only takes a few days to get all the EQ you could ever want back, exceptions made for anything over e400 as far as crafted eq goes, and yes i would like to see guilds stay, even if that means wiping them and letting the owners remake it for free
i dont think a total pwipe would really be needed if we could all agree on somthing like that

Idea:

Lock this thread, start a new thread with more options to vote on, with a link to this thread for reference, and all the stuff Celeborn has posted in the first post of the new thread.

Edit: and make sure make a giant red banner of text telling people to read what Celeborn has said before voting.

i hope you have you dont love your stuff that much because if we do have a pwipe are you going bye bye? because either way that bug need to be fixs and its celeborn call

i love to commet on complete pwipe and this is from 2 players from DL.

I am completely against a pwipe, I have spent 2+ years of my life building my chars and my guild, and have no interest in starting over. Everyone talks about the "unbalance" between races and classes...the facts are that there will NEVER be total balance, no matter how careful Celeborn is with his ideas and coding, smart players will ALWAYS find a way to get the most out of their race and classes, and tip the balance in their favor. I've been mudding since before most of our pbase was out of diapers, i've played dozens of muds, and have never seen one with the "balance" everyone seems to think is possible. It's NOT possible, the key to dealing with overpowered classes or races isn't changing the characters, it's improving the MOBS, and i don't just mean raising a mob's level, or making it's room no magic, i mean real changes, add mprogs to it to do different things based on the attacks being used against it, make it so that the so-called "supermobs" like Txa, CAN'T be defeated by one char, no matter what class they are. THEN we'll see not only more balanced play, but actual grouping and player cooperation outside of epic groups that are only grouping for the purpose of better xp.

While I agree with you on being against a wipe, I will say that you entirely missed Celeborn's point.

This has nothing to do with balance. Balance is not the issue. Balance is just numbers that need to be changed. Simple values.

The reason he was thinking about a player wipe was because he wants to expand DL. The old code that he is forced to live with is a severe hindrance to him, and slows him down significantly and causes limitations in programming in new content. It also limits system resources (the available RAM usage and hard drive space on the server) for us to play with. For example, lack of system resources is one of the key reasons as to why we don't have tons more areas.

Again, I'm not saying I want a player wipe, I just thought I'd explain this to you, because it appears that you think Celeborn wants a player wipe for a different reason than he actually does.

Not that he actually wants a player wipe either, I think it would just make it easier for him.

Yeah i was thinking about the same thing.