Dark Legacy MUD Forum

From your last post it sounds like Isabella hit it on the head...You claim to be happy with what you get and its only because others are getting some that you are upset (because they haven't gone through all you have gone through.)

Though I noticed you have answered very few (if any) of the questions I have asked of you. Everything is about keeping (for as long as possible) everything (special ores) for yourself...

Just because you were happy with the old system and didn't have a problem with over-crowding/whatever problem, doesn't mean that everyone else was happy. Obviously there was enough complaints/requests for changes that inspired Celeborn to recode the mines and come up with new values for the resources.

You can't say that the new system unbalances the items, (it appears our individual data is very simuliar on finding adamantite) 15 hours (approximately) for 5 adamantite (about 25 for mitrill for me), it would take me 6 sets of 15 hours of mining to get enough mitrill or 32 sets of 15 hours to get enough adamantite for 1 reforge...so 90 hours to get enough mitrill and 480 hours to get enough adamantite (over 10 weeks of a full time job.)

Using your data, 9 every 15 hours that's 18 sets or 270 hours, (you can't make me believe your happy with that)...but you are doing it 210 hours faster...if we were directly competing against each other to sell adamantite to other users, there is no way (unless I just didn't value my time) I could beat the price you could offer, after all, you can mine it much faster then I can.

Isabelle, what is wrong with those who are not willing to put in the time buying metals from hardcore miners? Perhaps its just me, but they shouldn't be doing everything with just their one account...

No, I'm talking more and more PLAYERS, as in individual people, were mining. I also know what I say to be correct. I remember when I first started mining.

It was me, Eventine, Hardraak, and Gaitika. We were the only ones who regularly mined at that time. That isn't to say we were the only ones who had percents or did it, but at that time we were the only ones actively doing it. At any given time there were 2 - 3 of us in there.

As time went on, more and more PLAYERS mined.

True, new people didn't mine much, but they still don't, and should they? Mining is a fairly advanced craft, and is really something that you only get curious about after you have established yourself. Every newbie I have seen in this new system is too involved with trying to get to tri-avatar to deal with mining, same as with the old system.

I do not feel that you should have to sacrifice the challenge of mining so that new people can have get free resources handed to them. And no, do not even think of comparing this to pre-epic levelling, they are completely different.

And if you want to call hard work and dedication elitist, then so be it. I guess I'm an elitist then. Pardon me for feeling that the best resources in the game should take some hard work to get.

You are absolutely correct. Seeing how I am the only person who put the effort in, I feel I should be the only person to have the rights to such resources, until somebody else puts the effort in as well.

I have answered every question you have asked, besides the ones I clearly told you I didn't understand, seeking clarification.

My data for mining adamantite was exaggerated to illustrate the point, but in the opposite manner. Meaning, its actually worse than I described. Ask around, any of the current dedicated miners have no touble getting some adamantite, certainly enough for a reforge in not THAT much time. Same for meteorite.

And this isn't even touching the gem part of it, which both of you seem to have ironically ignored.

News flash!
You can mine up every single gem you come across with zero problems. Even 1 gem per dig is a ton, because it only takes 1 gem for an attempt.

To me it just sounds like:
People don't like to work for resources, even if they are the best in the game, and would prefer if they just poured out of the ground. So screw Ocardus, who cares if he gets shafted. Tough luck, he should stop whining.

Well first, I am not going to ask around what others are doing/getting, this was/is a simple debate between a few people, if they want to come here and add their points that's fine, I spoke as truthfully as possible and now all of a sudden, your making things up? So then...are you making up how many your 100% adamantite miner is getting? I would say yep...obviously this is just a bunch of hooey on your part, lots of smoke and mirrors.

Just because you spent an ungodly amount of time in the old system does not give you the exclusive right to anything period. What you should be more proud of is people who have always appreciated your work and thought enough of you as a person to buy/trade with you for the things they needed instead of standing here tarnishing that image.

As for questions...you really haven't answered very many, mainly you just keep stating your position and telling me lies about what people are getting...here are some of the questions I have asked that you never addressed...



You did answer part of one question in there. The last paragraph you didn't understand is basically saying - To me a 100% adamantite miner should be getting 50 times what a non adept gets from an adamantite obvious chunked wall.

I also asked you to clarify if you were speaking of your miner as a 100% adamantite miner or a 100% mitrill miner, and also stated that anything that isn't a 100% adamantite miner should get the same amount as any other non-adamantite miner, just because the miner knows mitrill shouldn't give them an advantage on adamantite.

Jumping to gems (when did I ever address a problem with how the mining process didn't work with gems?) It is my belief that the gem part of the mining process is okay...except...for some reason, it seems citrine and carnies are harder to mine out then garnets/topaz/obsidian/diamond (don't know about blues...haven't found any.

Isabella or Cele, if you read this you might want to look at it...I have seen other reports on here about the same thing, but it still seems to be true. I mine a obvious chunk wall of cit or carn (mainly carnies) and I will almost 4 to 1 walls lose every gem, the ones that don't I will get 1...the other gem types I will get 1 to 4 gems depending on type of wall every time. (not really complaining about that, just seems weird about the cits and carnies! *laugh*)

Who's talking about not working for it, or it flowing out of the ground? My original idea might have it flow out of the ground, but the real problem would be processing it properly for use. You call 15 hours of online digging through the mine for 5 ore of adamantite not work? maybe if you have triggers set up to handle just about any problem/situation so you set it up and walk away you don't work for it, but I know I for one do not, I do have simple triggers that work on 1 wall at a time, collect my resources and get a new pick if I break one...other wise I am right there watching the screen, checking the mines over and over to see if I want to change directions or anything else.

In the future if you want to debate an idea, stick with facts as you know them, don't make things up, when it is found out you just look stupid and any credibility you had with the opposing person vanishes. I give you C for at least admiting you was blowing hot air.

just out of curiosity... how many other resources are you getting as well in this 15 hours of mining..

If you want the nitty gritty on what people are getting, please visit the old mining thread. Plenty of real examples there and tangible results, copy/pastes. Don't accuse me of 'making things up'. Go look at the threads for examples, and you will see that things are actually worse than I portrayed here.

Also, many people have noticed that the difficulty of mining gems seems to be inverted. I have brought it to both Celeborns and Isabelle's attention MANY times. Every time I have either been ignored or told that I am full of crap, maybe not in those exact words.

I don't care if my image is tarnished or whatever. I have never cared what anybody but my close friends have thought of me, and all of them happen to agree with me on these points. I worked hard for what I felt was to be my right to mine the best player attainable ores in the game, only to have it given to everybody as if it was nothing.

Yes, I don't call that work at all, considering the shear quantity of ridiculous gems and ores you can mine up in the process. POURING out of the ground.

When I mentioned a 100% Mitrill miner, I was referring to you. Get a miner to 100% in Mitrill, and use that exclusively for all your ore mining, except maybe bronze.

And if you want to know the real problem with your idea of having it be processing limited, it is this:

It implies that it would be much easier to pull out of the ground, and then having to adept processing. Problem is, it only takes 1,600 attempts to adept any craft. So if you had it pour from the ground, you could just then process it 1 at a time, quickly adept processing in any high ore, and have THOUSANDS of ingots. Sorry, but thats not a good system.

I stand by my points, and my points from prior threads. The people who are in favor of this system are the people who like to abuse it for resources, whereas the people who are opposed to it like the system better when its fair and difficult to get high gems and ores.

Kia - In the last 13 hours of mining I have acquired:

portal 1
Copper ore (245)
Mitrill ore (19)
Uncut carnelian (2)
Uncut citrine (3)
Uncut diamond (3)
Uncut garnet (20)
Uncut jade (3)
Uncut obsidian (3)
Uncut sapphire (5)
Uncut topaz (11)
Uncut zircon

portal 2
Adamantite ore (3)
Bronze ingot (726)
Copper ore (145)
Iron ingot (1228)
Iron ore (50)
Mitrill ore (21)
Uncut carnelian (14)
Uncut citrine (3)
Uncut garnet (6)
Uncut obsidian (4)
Uncut sapphire (17)
Uncut topaz (18 ) edited so it displayed the numbers instead of a smiley
Uncut zircon (2)


Weems - I am not going back there for any other information, this is where we were having our discussion and get off your high horse you admitted you made up/exagerated your data you posted, so I didn't accuse you of squat.

I'm sorry to hear that they have ignored you or whatever about the gems, they are in the wrong for doing so, there is a problem there.

Tell me...when you were first starting to mine adamantite, what percentage where you when you first got some adamantite and please don't exagerate, if you don't remember, just say so its okay. Point is, even if people we in the old system, if they mined around and found a pocket of adamantite like we do now, you gain experience and if the rolls work right, you get some ore period. So your arguement doesn't hold water. If your unhappy that it seems your not getting much more then a clumsy ape, that needs to be looked at an addressed, everyone should have a chance to harvest the ore period. You'll never make me believe you didn't get any adamantite ore until you were 100% in it.

I'm not interested in a 100% mitrill miner...I mine for my own needs, I don't see a need to be 100% in it to get what I need to do what I want. But thanks for the advise I might try it if I ever find enough ore to do so.

If the process was the same as it is now, your right...trying to limit the amount of ingots would fail in that context, my point is, that the processing of the metal should be harder and more prone to failure and material lost due to a process failure is not recoverable...since no one asked further about my idea I didn't explain it any further then the basics, we just got into debating the ore part of the problem.

and what depth are you mining at?

Alright kiasyn, he started pasting portals, I leave the rest to you.

Quintos, to respond - one of my previous posts specifically mentioned the fact that i think people with higher skill levels should be rewarded accordingly, of that i'm sure there would be no arguement, i said something (along the lines of)
"i like the new system for the sole reason that it invites new player participation - but the numbers do need to be tweaked"

More or less mining straight down to the last level of lime, and mining around, occasionally into the granite to see what is down there, or up a level in lime to see if there is anything there I might want.


Weems - of course I pasted the portals...what should I have done to please you? just said oh...maybe 3 mitrill, 20 copper, 15 iron, half a adamantite and a bunch of other ridiculous numbers? Kiasyn asked how many other resources I got during the 15 hours of mining, I have no reason to hide, distort or exagerate that information.

It all boils down to a few simple points:

1: People with 100% in something rare have put in the time and now anyone can get alot of what they worked hard to achieve.

2: Said people are now upset that they are getting screwed. (I feel for ya.)

3: Mining is too easy now.

4: There is a rift between lazy people and hard working people, hence the dispute over "Make it simple" and "Make it the way it used to be"


Now what i feel could solve SOME of these problems is this:

I personally don't understand why a 100%stone miner can get anything he wants, ie: gems, rare ores. I think that a person's adept should determin what he can yank out of the mud. If a person has 100% granite mining, then he should only succed at granite mining. He Does have 100% mining in general, but that should only count for a little. There are 3 breakdowns: Mining, then your type of mining (stone, gemstone, ore), then your specialty. So, a stone minier should not be able to strip mine gems and ores. A gem miner shouldn't be able to succesfully stripmin ores and stone, ect. But, because of that breakdown, lets say you have 100%mining , then you have 33% mining IN GENERAL, so you have a 33% head start on anything you try to mine in general, so its never guaranteed. An ORE miner then would have 33% in mining in general, and 66% mining any type of ORE in general, then the really good 100% mining in whatever SPECIFIC ore.

OK, thats prolly confusing so lemme simplify with one straight example:

A mitrill miner. with 100% mining, 100% ore mining, 100% mitrill mining.

33% chance at ANYTHING (100% mining)
66% chance at any ORE (100% ore mining)
100% at mitrill (100% mitrill mining)



The obvious problem is that right now anyone with 100% mining can haul up anything as if he had 100% in everything. So, to repiar the damage, make it so you can only mine what you adept in, and anything else you attempt should be sheer random success.

I was saying that LITTLE you got was a good indicator of your ignorance on the subject, and that you must be doing something seriously wrong...

It is not my fault if you are too lazy to go into the other thread and read my and other peoples digging reports. Here, I'll even link you:

http://forums.dark-legacy.com/viewtopic.php?t=515

There you have it. Numbers galore, go check it out.

I do not distort or lie about things, end of story. If you want to accuse me of that, then go ahead, but it's all right in that thread staring at your face. If you refuse to look at the evidence that proves you wrong, what else am I to do?

Thank you very much.

*Bwahahahahah* You are so funny...Of course I have read the other threads, that isn't the issue, I didn't care what anyone else was getting, you and I were discussing things here...I didn't want to know what they got, I wanted to know what you got. They might have been exaggerating too! But you see...you admited you did...for whatever reason, it means anything you say from this point on means diddly, because I can't trust you to tell the truth.

In your own words...



Not to mention those posts are for the most part before april this year and the code could have been adjusted several times already.

So call me lazy, call me ignorant...*laugh* I just don't care. Your opinion doesn't matter because you can't be trusted. Have a good one!

Just wow. Talk about a run-away attitude. You can say that to anything at all. Just accuse everybody of lying, that way nobody can ever make any points against it. Its like accusing people of cheating automatically whenever you fear you could be losing at a game. You see it all the time in first person shooters, and whiny kids playing board games.

Mostly the people who do it suck at the game, and use it as an excuse for their own failures.

Am I hinting at something? Perhaps, but heres another hint: if I was really intending an outright lie, I would never have revealed that fact. Also, for the third time (the first time was actually in the rest of the paragraph you cut out the sentence from), It is actually exaggertaed /leniently/, meaning its far worse than I described, not better. Believe what you wish, I think its pretty clear who is correct.


Mining is too easy right now.

I didn't run away, I'm just not discussing it with you anymore. You can't be trusted period. Believe what you want. Have a good one!

That would qualify as running away. Anyway, I have some tips for you, judging by the little tidbits you left about your mining percents, and the extreme slowness at which you are gathering resources.

First off, mine only on the bottom two layers. Screw the rest, everything you need is on the bottom two. Unless you are mining towards something you see on the map, always mine at an angle (IE ne, nw, se, sw). Mine sniff in every new room you enter, and mine up or down depending on whether you are on the bottom or one above bottom, every 8 or 9 new rooms to check to see if anything interesting is up, or down there.

Second, adept a Mitrill miner. Mitrill is very abundant and common to find, and is extremely useful. It is decent to use for reforges, it allows gem crafting up to Obsidian, and is available at high quantities. Because you find such high quantities of it, being adept in Mitrill helps you more than other things. Also, a 100% Mitrill miner will get good pulls from both Adamantite and Meteorite as well, making it an all around win-win miner. People try to use gold and silver instead of mitrill for adepting crafts and such, but I find that both of those are actually more time consuming than Mitrill to get, so I just juse Mitrill, personally. If I was forced to start over mining right now, the first thing I would do would be to work on adepting a Mitrill miner. You can never have too much of it, and its dead useful.

Third, a gem miner. Focus on whatever you find most abundantly on the bottom layer, in my experience this was topaz, sapphire, and obsidian. Once you hit 90%ish you should be able to pull up any gem in the whole mines no problem.

Something like a bronze miner can also be useful, but usually I consider this an entirely seperate activity from deep mining for ores and gems.

Work on those things I said, and maybe you will have some semblence of an idea of what we are talking about.

I would like to reitterate. The best thing to do is to come up with a solution that most people can agree upon. (Meaning no one will like it but it will be good enough, hence the saying "A good compromise leaves everyone angry.")

So lets stop the bickering, and see what we can come up with that might fix the problem.

Personally? I say we keep the way that you can mine anywhere in the world, and see 2 or 3 spaces around you, i think thats cool. But we should definantly change that fact that i stressed above in the quote. If we changed that, it would leave the mines easy to learn, yet would return the reward to those who work hard.

A suggestion that someone sent to me on MSN:

"my suggestion was to disable normal success on mining the top two thirds of resources and disable special success on the top third; so you have to have gem/ore mining to mine mid-grade ores/gems and you have to adept that specific resources to mine top-grade resources like meteor"

That would be fine.

i disagree with this suggestion we need all the resources we need to craft something pass e200. Which is hard for most people playing

You are an idiot.