Dark Legacy MUD Forum

Just wondered what people thought of this--

me removing all nations, and dividing them up into two, or four (max)

The continent would be split - one side would be chaos
One side would be order


I would prefer two, for simplicity. From there, we could possibly convince Celeborn to introduce races based on being in one side or the other.

2 starter towns/academies for each side

The size of the mud would prohibit going too far, but the above mentioned things could be doable.

The perk? You would know who you are at war with.

The disadvantage - You would be slaughtered if you entered an opposing nation. - And, if you attacked any NPC or Player from an opposing nation, it would make you automatic free kill - for that side.

Celeborn could use his current guild war code for that.

(All opposing nations would be shown with an "enemy" flag)

(newbie myself, but)
I would love such a system, but have a few suggestions on the side of that.

With this warring area, make a 'neutral' zone off to the side of both(not a newbie area, but still there, for level 30+ chars to access)
Still allow people from opposing sides to group together.

And, I think that the sides should be decided based on dieties, not races, but I realise that would simply put all of those bloody Mithril people on on side, and so they would mow down the rest of us (or is it just me?) like wheat.

Also, this would allow fro spy or reconesance(sp?) style quests, which are simple enough for a newbie such as me.

I heartilly agree.

Any movement of areas? Like if i need to get to Tyr for Lantana lets say? Is it only the main continent? How do guild structures in hamlets fit in? Will they be organized into theme?

Personally i believe many nations following their area's theme would be more accurate, probably also because i dont believe in the multiple starter's areas.

Also if you took only chaos and order, you couldnt really split the deities in two, it would be mitrill vs balthildis and without much interference from others since its in essence a struggle of opposites. (This is in response to the deity bit)

This sounds a lot like Dark Age of Camelot...Which is a very very very good MMORPG.

But really, I don't think any such neutral zone is needed, or safe zone, or anything like that. If it was done correctly, just BEING so deep into your own realm would be protection enough.

who ever said 'safe' zone?
*lookes back over posts*
Nope, I didn't. Simply an area where niether group really holds dominance. Both are at risk in this area, not safe!

And as far as teh other gods go, Fianna would just be at a loss in this whole deal, and eek out a living away from the areas closer to the fighting.
Fell would be thirving, as wouldn't Order and Chaos simply be fighting because they hate eachother?
Halycon could be trying to get the two to coexist peacfully, possibly in charge of the neutral area, or at least a significant influence there.
Sekhmet, the god of WAR. Need I say anything?
Maybloom would probally be in teh same boat as Fianna or Halycon.
Tlock would be alive and well in POW camps, stict commanders, ect.
Mithrill and Balthildis would be waring with eachother. Mithrill with a nice neat army, Balthildis with an uncontrollable horde.
followers of Leopold would become messengers for Mithrill, as they at least can be trusted, without removing soldiers from the army, and Mithrills ordered system would requiremessengers to and from teh higherups in teh system.
Hor, well, Hor would just do his thing. Possibly aiding either side a any time, or both at once, only to turn aroudn and disrupt Mithrills system, or kill someone respected(since they're not higher up in the nonexistent system) on Balthildis' side.

See, everyoen except Fianna and Maybloom have a designated spot, and they can be losing their own personal wars with their counterpart deities.

the safe zone would be your nations side - and by safe, that just means you wouldnt be attacked on sight by the npc's.


no neutral

the split would be as such -->

humans, elves, dwarves, phasians - side A
trolls, ogres, gerps, lizardmen - side B

1 main stronghold on each side
from there, cities, towns, other areas would be spread out

dividing line could be east from west, split down the middle


Question - why would the people bother going into the other side?
Answer - levelling and mainly - quests


One reason why i don't want to use deities, is because i dont want players switching sides. The side you are born to, will be the side for the life of your character.


This entire idea hinges on player support, as i would have to recruit many players as builders, and quest makers. (And before all this happens, we would need verification from Celeborn on quest support)

Um, with all due respect Gerps and Dwarves are basically the same race. They all had the same ancestors. As Thane Ezbad of the Dwarves I have been treating Gerps as brothers in the arts. I would not wish to see them concidered enemies of dwarves, and will dispute any such rift between the two races greatly.

If your going to split things racially, instead of via deities, then why not a three way split?

Civil and cultured: Humans, Phasians, Elves, and Pixies

Little and drunkards: Dwarves, Gerps, Gnomes, and Halflings

Green and/or smelly: Orc, Trolls, Ogre, and Lizardmen

Oh my? Would you look at that! Four races to each side! Oh, and each side also has a caster race, a fighter race, and a nothing-special race! Woah, wouldn't that split be so much more fun? I claim someplace with lots of hills and mountains for the wee-folk.

Lemme get this straight..... if we attack someone we become free kill for the people on the side that the attacked was on...

erm
o.O how do you become free kill in the first place... if there are 0 free kill on both sides.. o.O i dun wanna have pk forced onto me... :X

Sounds very nice and dandy but i think youre forgetting that good/evil and order/chaos is not necessarily racially based. What about those people that dont conform? What about people who are wearing evil rings like Svirfneblin etc. They wouldnt side with normal Gnomes. How bout Dark Elves?

I also think not all people would have the same racial bias towards races on the opposite side. Does this system allow for that? Doesnt seem like it.

The basic point of this comment is that with this system you'd be forcing players do and feel things about someone else or about good/evil. And thats against the first (practically) rule of building. My main concern is what happens to my characters in relation to my guild who accepts any race as long as theyre evil. Theoretically i wouldnt want my guild (geographically as well) to be on any racial side. My guild also doesnt necessarily support chaos unless it specifically works for Fell.
So I think unless a more random or neutral division of nations is made, I think youll be forcing ppl to conform rp-wise to something that doesnt necessarily fit. Id rather see a list of 20 nations so that you can find something that fits your RP or "idealogy" thats also based on current areas, like City of the Forsaken for example: dark elven nation. Oceans Keep: neutral nation. Kendermore: practically already a nation (even tho it will be bulldozed) Tyr: neutral nation.
So some can be racially based, some religiously, some neutral so evil/good and order/chaos coexist.
Anything that didnt allow for a complete diversification of which nation a person could join, would be sadly disappointing.

this is a very interesting idea that i like to see in the future; however, this idea isnt new, it has been suggested for years now and here we are still talking about it. Anyway, this is my input.

Dividing players according to races is a BAD idea. It may be good for RP purposes but realistic if falls short. Races are not balance and probably never will. Pixies siding with Elves and is the same as siding superman and batman against the street gangs. There will be no balance of power. Players will shift dramatically onto one side and you will end up with no body else on the otherside. The pixie boom is a testament of this.

Splitting up players according to religion might be a better way to do it but this too is problematic. And if this is the case, splitting equally into 2 sides will not be sufficient. Followers of Sekhmet will battle followers of Mitrill while the rest of the other dieties' followers will be hiding in some corner. We also need to take in consideration of people switching diety. In the end, I predict that the idea will crumble after a couple of weeks.

Alternatively, I suggest that we divide up the players according to towns. We will come up with 3 towns. Players will have the option to reside to the town that they wish to make it their home. This should be independ of race and deity. Guilds will be forced o associate their allegience to a town. The number of towns may grow depending on the size of the playerbase. Once you reside in a perticular town, your allegiance belongs to that town. You may not switch towns.

New players will have to chose a town upon character creation. Whatever town they chose will be the one that they belong to indefinitely.

Each town should have its own central noteboard, its own newbie academy... basically another copy of tarsonis. The town's guards should be very powerful. They need to be powerful enough so that non triaves will have a hardtime getting pass them. Once an intruder enters the town, the guards will automatically attack the intruder. If the guard is killed, the whole town will be alert. Players can then come to the rescue and confront the intruders. This will promote team work and possiably players designed warfare. Should the intruders manage to slaughter all of the town's inhabitants, the intruder may stick around and terrorize the town. Intruders may not enter the newbie ground of the town. this will offer protection to the newbies. To make things interesting, we should set up temples of different deities in the towns. Those who belong to that perticular diety will be protected as long as he/she is in the temple's ground.

When players from one town go out and terrorizes another town, they are leaving their own town at home defenseless. Once a player logs off and back on again, he/she will automatically be transported outside of the town. This will prevent cheaters and ground hoggers.

Marching into the enemy's town to conquer them has its advantages and disadvantages. the advantage is that you can cause terror and pk the enemy's town, but the disadvantages is that you may be captured and be thrown in prison. If you are killed while you are in the enemy's town, you are considered captured. When you depart, you'll find yourself in jail. You are automatically be returned your own town after 10 minutes of prison time.

caretakers can throw quests with certain objectives. This way there would be a purpose for invading the enemy's town.

I like this idea because it promotes team work. Players would actually have a reason to log on and do something besides hack hack hack mobs all day long. Strategies will also come into play. Tension among towns will promote unity. threat of everyday invaders reinforces the idea that Darklegacy is Medieval based.

Inside each town- astral, word of recall and farsight are disabled.

Scenario 1:
Alora has only one Crystal of Celeborn. Whatever the town that is in possession of the the crystal gets xyz bonus. As a result all towns compete for the crystal and attempt to hold on to it as long as possible before some other town invades and steal it away.

My input is simple and to the point. I will not support anything that forces PK upon me. If other people want PK fine but we should all have the choice of being involved or going about our normal, peaceful lives.

I love the idea of the split-up and In my oppinion you all are right in some aspects. I love the neutral zone idea, because after all in most of the ancient civilisations enemies still had trade links, bonds etc, which fits into roleplaying, and you cant put a straight line down the middle of territory.

With the boom of one side, I doubt that would happen. Its like the real world, and the world in the story books. There are those who gain power by destroying all (Matthew) Those who gain power by saving the day (Lingolas) And those who don't give a rats arse what happens to the world, and insults everyone(Vogar) I've played many multiplayer games where we have good/evil/neutral and they work out fine. Note: i know the players aren't of the right races: See Paragraph 4

Vogars Idea about the split of three is good. The third side (Dwarves, Gerps etc.) are pretty much neutral, They provide to both sides, without splitting and chainging all the time and can assist in trade enormously. There's still a few problems here: See paragraph 5

I suggest, if this Idea is to continue, that when creating a character, especially new people to the realm would need to understand the concept before choosing a race or a name. This can be done by having a "Newbie Area" - one where players can level up to level 15 (Needs that many levels) Learn more about the issues of alora, and be in a larval stage of developement, without a race until they reach level 15, when they choose a race. This Newbie Area would need more experienced players to help them: see paragraph 5

(there are lots of paragraphs in paragraph 5)
Ok - the paragraph that brings it all together. my main idea: A DIPLOMATIC GOVERNMENT SYSTEM WITH RULES. A Heirachial Diplomacy *sorry bout the spelling* The following is a basic idea, to be edited.

Level 5: -Public- (more than 30hrs) This is all the players who have played for more than 30 hours and are above level 30. They vote privately for the King and Queen every 2 weeks. Polls open as soon as a new King & Queen are announced. have a config for

Level 3: -(13ppl) (more than 200hrs)(Level 45/45) -no name 4 rank- People must serve 15 hrs online helping in the Newbie area before being considered for this position. This rank helps with Justice. Cannot serve this rank for more than 4 consecutive weeks, with 4 week breaks etc. Helps with unfairness. Whole group & above ranks vote every week, electing 3 new persons & dismissing 3 others. (work out a balance l8r)

Level 2: -(7ppl) (more than 400hrs) (Triavatar) -no name for rank- People must serve 30 hrs online helping in Newbie area before being considered for this position. Also must have served 8 weeks in rank 3. 2 voted out every week, 2 voted in every week, no more than 2 consecutive weeks with 7 week breaks etc.

Level 1: -King & Queen- (2ppl) May only be "King/Queen" for 1 week, with 10 week breaks etc. Voted every week from level 2 players. Consultants to Immortals etc. There are two, and so one person is not in charge at all time, evens out male/female dominance etc.

1 diplomacy per group - weather it be 3, weather it be 2.
The diplomacy helps with newb. area, with overall game, RP, SidevsSide, SidevsSidevsSide, Neutral Area, If we do have 3 areas who will fight who, trade, King 2 King conversation (alliances, wars etc) and maybe more.

(all the numbers are rearrangeable, i don't know population etc, rules are to keep it fair and hopefully unbias, needs work, I know) I'm not a coder, i dont know if it can be done, it might have to be more simplistic than this.

Sleepy now. Bed Time. Goodnight Alora.

in adjunct to my previous note, i suggest that we have a 4th town. This town will be peaceful and neutral to accomodate Sardonyx and perhaps Dunadan.

People from this town may apply to join a warring town, but once they join a warring town, there is no going back.

So, a newly created player would have 4 towns to chose from. 3 of which are at war and one neutral.

Could someone please tell me who are Sardonyx and Gerarden. I used to see them around alot, but that was like when I was a newbie. I've heard they've done many great things etc. but who are they?

I'd also like to mention that Lingolas' Idea about the four groups - 3 that were forementioned and the "peaceful" society are a great idea. Its not right to force people into PK. - Blah he mentioned all the good reasons anyway. Just posting my support for the idea.

As for the way the SCA runs their system, it is rather feudal. Once you have been a king once, you stay a viscount etc. If these are just "badges" thats fine, but if they're taking up places in society it does not allow for new comers, and gives more advantage to the people who come first.

I also forgot to mention in my system when your un-elected from a certain rank, then you become one of the rank below it, for that period of time, and the area below that for their period of time.

So if a new king and queen were elected, then the old King and Queen would become of the 2nd rank, but not take up any of the 7 places (that means there would really be 9 people) for 2 consecutive weeks The King and Queen could not be re-elected or voted out again (because they are not one of the 7) and after they serve there 2 weeks in the 2nd rank they would automatically serve 2 weeks in the third rank, just as they did in the 2nd rank (not take up places, not able to be voted-out or re-elected)

The same goes for a level 2 who is voted out. they would get an honarary title for 2 weeks in the 3rd rank, not taking up any of the 13 places. This would mean that after a time the ranks would look like this:

Level 1 -Royals - 2 people (King, Queen)
Level 2 -lords- 11 people (7 lords) (xKing&xQueen - serving 2 weeks, xKing&xQueen - serving 1 weeks(already served 1))
Level 3 -barons- 17 people (13 barons) (xKing&xQueen - serving 2 weeks, xKing&xQueen - serving 1 weeks(already served 1))
Level 4 -Peasants- Population (right to vote for king/queen)

Also there MAY be a time required of serving in the ranks below, before you become king/queen or achieve next rank.

ALSO i'm ganna do up three or four lists - Ideas, Problems, Solutions (and i'm sure I'll need a fourth list) And then try to combine all of them in the simplest way possible.

~Ideas are still running through my mind,
hope you can makes some use of them~

i'm sure there's a fix

so no, it would not be a clean line down the middle, we would have side A and B with a "badlands' down the middle, which would be like a buffer, anything goes.

i would say this for a start -->

the only way you can attack another side, would be to do so in groups, banding together, forming a party (which would be coded) to allow an attack. - And, as a start, this action could only be performed on npc's. As time goes on, perhaps the way death occurs would be changed, and players would have no problems with player killing, as it would not be a scarey, or mean act. My thoughts are that if 2 groups of players are involved in a player fight, and both walk away happy, or excited with the fight, regardless if they won or lost, i think that would be the way to do it.


once an attack occured, the npc's would be the first to defend their town or city, alerting the player members of that city that an attack was under way, which would allow for players to chose if they wanted to defend their town or not.

The only way to allow the players who adamantly refuse to be involved in player deaths, would be to allow enough gameplay within their side of the world, to not give them a needed reason to leave their side, and venture into a free for all section of world.

But, if the player did, then they would be subjective to the rules of the land, i think thats a fair way to do it. - I foresee a future where all players would embrace the mild player killing, and not be turned off by it.

As for races being unfair, ignore that, races can be modified later, or be given advantages/disadvantages simply from quests. If players make 50 quests for troll only, and 5 for pixie, then i think players will probably prefer to go troll side, even if people say pixies are stronger But i wouldnt even put that as a consideration, i would say, pick what you think would be fun, and go from there. It can be balanced down the road.

first, yes vogar, agreed, it looks like a good idea


next, here's some pvp rules as taken from another game, its all coded, so theres no need to worry about abuse -

Under certain conditions you can fight players of the opposing faction. You cannot fight players in your own faction, except through duels.

You cannot attack other players at will. Certain conditions must met first before you can begin PvP combat.

Level differences are less important. Although your damage per second, health, mana, and available abilities are better if you are higher level, all other combat factors are equal when fighting other players.. For example, your chance to dodge, block, or resist spells is the same whether you fight a level 1 player, or a level 50 player. This makes the playing field fairer for players of differing levels, while still maintaining a sizeable advantage for players with a higher level.

Spells are limited against other players. Against monsters, your spells wihch incapacitate or control a target operate normally. However, against other players, your spells are subject to diminished returns. On your first casting these spells have 100 % of their effect, on subsequent castings against same target, these spells have 75 %, then 50% effect, then finally 0% effect. Spells subject to this rule include those that control or limit other players, such as fear, stun.

-->
PvP mode is disabled by default. You have to turn it on through your own actions. When you enable PvP mode, you turn on a flag other players can see. ---> ANY player will then be allowed to " attack you " at will.

You can enable this flag by doing any of the following:

1) Attacking an NPC of an opposing faction, such as the opposing factions city guards, questors, shopkeeper, etc.

2) Attacking an opposing player that attacked a friendly NPC. By counterattacking the first player, you enable PvP mode, and opposing players can begin attacking you.

3) Aiding a player engaged in PvP combat.

4) Entering an enemy capital city.

5) Besides the above 4 ways, you may also type (insert command here) to enable PvP mode.


- Turning off PvP Mode:
PvP mode lasts 5 minutes, if you engage in any of the PvP enabling actions, the timer is reset.



Possible Options - Territory Control

Three categories - friendly, contested, and enemy.

Friendly Territories: You are safe from opposing players while you are in friendly territories unless you attack those players. While the territory is friendly for you, remember, it is enemy territory for the opposing player.
Based on PvP rules, you can attack enemy players who come into your friendly zones. Of course, as soon as you do, they can then attack you.

Contested Territories: Neutral ground - any player in these areas can be attacked by any opposing player. All players are fair game as long as they remain there.
*****(Per plans already in the works - structures - areas which can be controlled could go here)*****

Enemy Territories: in enemy territories, opposing players can attack you at will, but you cannot attack them unless they attack first or enable PvP in some other way.



other tidbits - player is free from being attacked until they collect their corpse, or PvP mode can be disabled upon death. allowing them to return to their corpse and loot it.

Just as some other info, I stole this stuff from another muds webpage:

PlayerKilling

Race Specific Flags - When you kill a player of a specific race you gain a PK flag that makes it possible for other members of that race to see what you have done to attack back at you.

System Completely Handled by the Players - Players that are leaders of the Royal houses will have the ability to pardon PK flags gained through error/accident, however not an obligation. There will be no immortal involvement with PK.

Checks and Balances - There are power ranges that one can PK within, to make the system fair.

Declaring War:
Declaring war will cost some amount of copper from the Royal Treasury. The monies it cost will go into a warpot which will deplete every day as the war continues.

Only Royal leaders may declare war but all Royals and Nobles are involved on BOTH sides once the deed is done.

Before war is declared, a notice in either the Public Notices Book or the Royal Notices Book (found within each Castle) must be posted. The Post must contain the reasons for declaring war (i.e. Money or some compensation for an alledged offense which the enemy refuses). If no declarations are posted then please SEE REWARDS!



Prison Camps:
Prison Camps will be set up for every continent. When an enemy is 'captured' they will be sent to the prison camp until the end of the war is declared, SEE WINNING.

To capture an enemy you must PK them. Death will not occur and no flags will be given during times of war. The loser will be removed with their equipment to the prison camp.

Prison camps will be a permenant home for the duration of the war and only House channels can be heard while the war continues (Some messages would get through no?) There is no escape from prison camps as they are well hidden so hope your House negotiates your release quickly by ending the war!

Rewards:
Rewards for winning result in receiving the monies spent upon declaring war (minus the depletion for soldiers etc, it does cost to fight a war!).

At war's end, the post of contintion/demands of House A will be reviewed by immortals. If House A wins, all demands (within reason) will be met by House B. If House A loses, House B will receive the monies in the warpot. Please note that just because House A declares war on House B this does not mean House B cannot post their own disputes and then declare war on House A. It would increase the warpot as well as require House A to pay some retributions if they fail to conquer House B.



Winning:
Wars can be won three ways. By a POINT system, by pking the King or Queen, or a surrender declaration by your warring House. The point chart below can and will be changed if the playerbase increases and House memberships rise.

-Capture a Noble Member (beneath Lead position) 1 point
-Capture a Royal Member (other than the King) 2 points
-Capture a Noble Leader 3 points
-Destroy a Noble Palace Guardian 4 points
-Destroy a Royal Castle Guardian 5 points
-Capture the King/Queen Automatic Win

Once 20 points have been achieved that House is declared victorious. If either House declares peace a draw is declared and the warpot is awarded to no one.

Now like I said, these are not my ideas. They come from another mud a friend of mine coded. Personally, I really like the racial flag concept of PvP. By changing that part, and mixing it with Isabelle's idea, I think we could have something neat. Not sure I like how that place runs wars though...

i dont like the prison idea. I would hate to sit in jail watching everyone else having fun. Who knows how long the war will last?

On the contrary, the idea that it costs to have war sounds great. There should be some kind of accountablility for declaring wars. Declaring war is a major decision that requires much resources. in addition, it would be cool that which ever side that are unable to deposit money into the pot when the pot rans out of gold, that side loses the war (You cant fight a war when you got no money).

about the prison idea. I would like to see prisoners go free only if that prisoner is bailed. The bail amount can be based on the level since levels are usually linearly correlated to the power of the player. This is similar to plundering and looting in time of war.