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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 8:07 pm 
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but.. thief ISN'T a choice.

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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 1:21 am 
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"Do the number crunching, and you will see the potential of an ooze psi/pal/thief over some other class, i'm to lazy to do it for you, but its obvious its damage/damage reduction is skyhigh."

Btw i only copy/paste because im too lazy to do quotes.

Anyways, the whole damage/damage reduction thing, that has very little, to extreamly little, to do what the actual build of the character compared to the equipment it uses. You could make a psi/pal/rogue knight/ooze(lich) fight agaist a druid/mage/cleric void construct, and with the proper gear the construct would destroy the lich.


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 1:46 am 
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How does that circus song go?

du du du da de de de de de de... you know.... :( CIRCUS SONG!


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 3:39 am 
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Anyways, the whole damage/damage reduction thing, that has very little, to extreamly little, to do what the actual build of the character compared to the equipment it uses. You could make a psi/pal/rogue knight/ooze(lich) fight agaist a druid/mage/cleric void construct, and with the proper gear the construct would destroy the lich.


Your bringing up complete irrelevant comparision, 'with proper gear' This is completly irrelevant to compare. I am not discussing equipment here. This is ascendancies.

This too is out of topic, but if you think just cause i played a 'lesser' class i dont have a say you realy dont know what your talking about, Tuller, Chilli, there couldn't be no lesser class in a game, there could be balance with pros and cons, of similar value.

Compare lich, ooze, construct, vampire to the other ascendancies, they fall short.

You dont stick in, if you have X gear, and the other have Y gear. Resistances is another issue and torrim's solution for that is good, I belive.

You take what makes a class the strongest and compare it to others, then take disvantages and compare it to others.

What rivals critical immunity? - Nothing, there are 4 classes that get it and each of diffrent disvantages but do they come close to the other classes? Not at all, certainly you can argue about which is on top, but the 4 of the classes is and its not very balanced at all, thats why you dont see many other races as 'main alts'

You can't just come up with a who list, and say i am completly wrong, cause people have so many alts and they play many diffrent chars, so coming in denying it is just wrong. Compare it to others....

Mindflayer, thrall, myconite, dragons, planar, etc..

Most of the top player there is have their main alt as one (If I said all, you would come up with some rare exception, but **** off now, i'm no longer gona argue about this cause its so obvious.)

If you calculate damage potential you can take small steps into calculating it

One is speed (speed boosts)
Second is criticals (ascendancy)

Lets say if Iris is wielding a emeralite sword and is ooze ond is a swashbuckler with speedboosts

You note down the damage per second!

Then compare it to another class, example Deep gnome, Earth elemental, with emeralite sword and swashbuckler or some other class.

Ooze will be doing 10x more damage cause hes immunity to criticals and deep gnome is not....

You dont say lets one get acid immunity, and I have full bypass on the ooze, such comparisions is completly faulty. So **** off with them already i'm no longer gona argue this cause there doesn't seem to be a person with enough sence around here.


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 2:42 pm 
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Gnawer wrote:
Your bringing up complete irrelevant comparision, 'with proper gear' This is completly irrelevant to compare. I am not discussing equipment here. This is ascendancies.


he's telling you that the ascendancy doesn't matter, it is very relevant

also you're talking as if emeralite is extremely common

also you keep throwing in vampyr with ancestries that you think are "far superior". vampire sucks ASS

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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 3:03 pm 
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Chilliwack wrote:
Gnawer wrote:
Your bringing up complete irrelevant comparision, 'with proper gear' This is completly irrelevant to compare. I am not discussing equipment here. This is ascendancies.


he's telling you that the ascendancy doesn't matter, it is very relevant

also you're talking as if emeralite is extremely common

also you keep throwing in vampyr with ancestries that you think are "far superior". vampire sucks ASS


What the **** is wrong with you? This topic is about ascendancies nothing else

Emeralite was a example, you can take 2x criticals and still reach higher damage potential. (The rarite of the material, is also completly irrelevant cause we are not discussing, crafting)

So keep your opinion about Vampyr, it still gets critical immunity and reach higher damage potential then the other ascendanes with exception of the others with critical immunity. I was mainly discussing Ooze, Lich and you keep jumping on me for each **** example I make. ITS an example.


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 3:05 pm 
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You guys dont know how to do a comparision, you just derail it and think of other counters, which is completly irrelevant to the discussion these suggestions was for ascendancies.


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 3:08 pm 
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And when you do a comparision you take into account the max damage it can do for damage per second, first.

Which is emeralite.


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 3:12 pm 
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I'm no longer gona lecture you have to make a comperision, these suggestions was for ascenandies and topic could stick to it.

I'm done arguing about it, its not gona lead anywhere i've said what i wanted to propose.


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 4:46 pm 
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This is what I mean, they're bringing up something that's relevant to the cons so you say "it's not relevant" this is why I don't want to talk to you anymore and why I hope you slip and fall.

Dood, what about dragonform? You think a lich can take a dragonformed dragon ancestry? (when they work) I VERY MUCH doubt it.

If you take all the equipment away from ancestries and compare them straight up, some /will/ have an advantage in COMBAT. What about magic casters like demonic or angelic? You take an ooze against someone who's a supreme magic and guess what, they're crit resis aren't going to mean anything.

This is the issue with you playing only physical chars. You /only/ compare physical, and not magical as well. Everything has their balance and when you compare the ancestries with n othing else they'll seem strange because they don't all have only physical ups, the ooze can only attack with ois effect, you use equipment to get 90% resistance and you'll be hitting 90x harder than they are.

You can't just compare the basics of each, you have to take into consideration other effects that come into play (such as the ooze above) and vampyr does suck.. even with crit resis, I encourage you to play one and find out how bad it sucks...

EDIT: oh here's a void example. Take an ooze/pixie/pentagram against a void... they can be spelled up all they want, but if you have 90% ois resis and they don't, they're screwed, even with their faster attacks. But I do agree that void should have some sort of speedup because they are too slow to be of much use in the game. However I don't agree that we should slow down everyone else, I think we should speed up voids.

Also, stop swearing at people, you're going to get banned for that. and that's not trying to belittle you, that's helpful and friendly advise.


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 5:16 pm 
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Quote:
This is what I mean, they're bringing up something that's relevant to the cons so you say "it's not relevant" this is why I don't want to talk to you anymore and why I hope you slip and fall.

Dood, what about dragonform? You think a lich can take a dragonformed dragon ancestry? (when they work) I VERY MUCH doubt it.


You can't compare something that doesn't exist right now, so dont bring up some fictional argument. I'm sure dragon forms will be balanced to match anscestries there are for _NO_ reason one anscestry could be superior.

Quote:
If you take all the equipment away from ancestries and compare them straight up, some /will/ have an advantage in COMBAT. What about magic casters like demonic or angelic? You take an ooze against someone who's a supreme magic and guess what, they're crit resis aren't going to mean anything.

This is the issue with you playing only physical chars. You /only/ compare physical, and not magical as well. Everything has their balance and when you compare the ancestries with n othing else they'll seem strange because they don't all have only physical ups, the ooze can only attack with ois effect, you use equipment to get 90% resistance and you'll be hitting 90x harder than they are.


And here you go again saying i'm a void I dont have a say, but this is irrelevant cause its DPS, Damage per second, that counts when doing these comparisions. Its the same calculation for physical and magic, you count how much damage per second you do. You can do other types of damage then OIS as ooze so its irrelevant.

Quote:
You can't just compare the basics of each, you have to take into consideration other effects that come into play (such as the ooze above) and vampyr does suck.. even with crit resis, I encourage you to play one and find out how bad it sucks...

EDIT: oh here's a void example. Take an ooze/pixie/pentagram against a void... they can be spelled up all they want, but if you have 90% ois resis and they don't, they're screwed, even with their faster attacks. But I do agree that void should have some sort of speedup because they are too slow to be of much use in the game. However I don't agree that we should slow down everyone else, I think we should speed up voids.


You can do other type of damage as ooze, and now your assuming one will have better gear and the other will have crappy again, which makes a faulty comparision.

This is a complete diffrent topic from voids, so keep it seperate i've posted my suggestions for void there.


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 7:15 pm 
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With ooze all attacks act as if imbuned with an ois rune, therefore no other types... Read the information on ooze.

Magic and physical damage is completely different, so is the wait times for casting and attacking.

What I'm saying is that if you compare all ancestries based on physical combat there will be differences, but why would you do that? The game is not based only on physical combat, there are many other parts of this game.

Are you wanting all ancestries to be equal in physical combat?


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 7:59 pm 
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Tuler wrote:
With ooze all attacks act as if imbuned with an ois rune, therefore no other types... Read the information on ooze.

Magic and physical damage is completely different, so is the wait times for casting and attacking.

What I'm saying is that if you compare all ancestries based on physical combat there will be differences, but why would you do that? The game is not based only on physical combat, there are many other parts of this game.

Are you wanting all ancestries to be equal in physical combat?


You swing A generic sword at a rabid squirrel!
[swords raises by 0.6% and is now 2.8%]
... and strike its head!
... You cause 14 damage +(acid, poison).

This is from using Ooze, so its very much possible to change damage type for it, Do you know what DPS is? Balance/spellcooldown is irrelevant cause its already counted by using DPS, its how you balance classes.

Certainly you have pros & cons of each, but the dps could be similar.

(Damage per second)


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 8:45 pm 
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notice how it's still doing acid? so sure it might do slightly more, but you're ALWAYS doing some sort of acid damage, regardless of what runes are in a weapon, or what spells you're casting

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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 10:45 pm 
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You guys really dont need to be replying to anything else he's saying, anybody who's played for a month or so will know 99% of what he's saying is backed up with the exactly wrong information. Ignore him, it's like a mosquito, it bites you, bothers you, but eventually flies away to get zapped by a bug zapper.


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 10:55 pm 
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"This topic is about ascendancies nothing else"

"Lets say if Iris is wielding a emeralite sword and is ooze ond is a swashbuckler with speedboosts"

We all know that emeralite swords/ swashbuckler are asendancies.

"One is speed (speed boosts)
Second is criticals (ascendancy)"

Speed bostes, you gain more through other ancestries then ooze. Yes, criticals happen from every hit, all the time, resistances of armor and weapons have no effect at all.

"Then compare it to another class, example Deep gnome, Earth elemental, with emeralite sword and swashbuckler or some other class. "

Earth elemental is the best class evar. So is an emeralite sword.

"Ooze will be doing 10x more damage cause hes immunity to criticals and deep gnome is not...."

Sorry, forgot that oozes get 10x criticals for every hit and that there's no such thing as a heal spell or regeneration spell.

I'm done, seriously kid shut the hell up, you have no idea what you're talking about ever all you do is complain and complain and say you're throwing ideas in when you're really just ignore what's actually there. So go away anybody that matters doesn't want to listen to you.


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 11:37 pm 
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Chilliwack, remove all of the threads please, they've turned into nothing but flamewars.

If he chooses to repost any of them he can do so, but he should be warned that unless they're backed with relevant information they'll be removed.

Danke.


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 11:43 pm 
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i don't think i'll move it, but i will lock it because everything's already been said and nobody's making new points, just stating that one person sucks, the other person is making irrelevant points, and some other person laughing and killing another person.

if i feel like it/am told to i'll delete the flame posts

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