Dark Legacy MUD Forum

Most of us are upset at the new patch for making it imp0ssible to cast without bp which now makes being a vampire useless. Here are a few ideas to make them useful again.(vampires are mostly for casting so most of my ideas will be for the casting genre.)

My first suggestion, for vampire, is to make their bp equal to mana, have a x 1.5 bonus. So a mage with 2000 mana after being vamped would have 3000. They would have a slight boost in being able to cast a few more spells before needing to feed.

For Vampyres, the should get the above bonus but also get a spell bonus. Their spells should cost about 1/3 less (less if this is too much). So a normal breath spell that costs 300 mana would become 200 mana. There for they would get their boost in bp and a bit cheaper spells making them actually useful for casting.

Last suggestion is to give them a decent line up in spells. Only one i can come up with as of now would be called 'Blood Boil' inwhich it acts as a breath spell except doesnt target more than one mob. The description would be that it causes the target's blood to heat up and boil, etc.

Anyways these are a few ideas. Let me know what you think and post some yourself so we can make Vamps usfull.

- MR pierce bonus (based on level?)
- Boost blood to equal mana.

here are my suggestiong to make it fair for casters now
~make the min time in between jabs with daggers the same amount of time as the speed of a feed to cast ratio
~eliminate mr
~make feeds to were to feed everytime u try it (i tried 27 times with an alt and didn't ever draw blood.... and that's just ridiculus)
~ make haste a mage spell
~ lower breath's inital mana to 50
~make heal initial speed at 1.0 sec
this is just a beging and even this meleers will still be way overpowered when compared to a caster after all if they keep it the way it is might as well remove the whole mage class and cleric class

This is the vampire thread not the caster/melee thread

I like kiasyn's idea with the MR pierce

But as far as the blood part, too many people have forgotten about feed, which is a good way of ignoring the wait on mana, and if you run out of mana in the middle of a fight.

That part doesnt really need to be changed, based on my observation (which are probably wrong) Spells cost about 1/6 of the usual amount, i think that the bp should stay about 1/6 the usual mana if thats the difference also (not entirely sure either) or however it is.

But to keep it so that having Vampyr as a useful ancestry, keep the double blood points or whatever it is, even though to me that seems a little excessive, not entirely sure on that.

The MR pierce seems like a good idea, then maybe spellcasters can be useful to some degree in epics. The % at which it pierces could either be something based on blood points (so that being a ancestor vampyr is useful again) or just have it as a skill you practice at a trainer or something.

Oh, and please make the vampire spells useful, like summon guardian being somewhat like an elemental or something, maybe slightly weaker.

Well, From what I was trying to cast (With max bp at 60) It costed about 40 bp per spell x_X I had to feed from a guard for like 10 minutes just to spell up. I think the max needs to be raised.

I think the main mistake being made is that everyone assumes vampires to be for casters. People abused the vampire system for obscene casting power, which doesnt mean at all that it should now accomodate the caster section of DL when the bug has finally been fixed (note: bug). I think Celeborn needs to weigh in on what he intended for vampires or another Caretaker who actually knows, with regards to roleplay and gameplay. What should be fixed imo, is the excessive bp per spell thats needed, whether thats tweaking the amount per spell or the overall bp. But NOT, I repeat NOT, with having the vampire caster in mind, simply for general balance. The ability of vampires to feed has indeed been forgotten and gives them an edge with regards to regenerating their blood pools. (If the feeding isnt as effective as it should be, this can also be tweaked for balance)
I also think that when playing as a caster vampire, people often want to apply a one-sided theme to casting, ie. More fecs, more power. God forbid anyone should use energy runes or figure out another way to deal with high bp costs, like less buff spells. Main conclusion: seek to balance vampires for their own sake, not for any caster's sake. You can't be pissed off that the system you've abused is now working more like it used to (and perhaps supposed to have worked).

The game doesn't make it seem like a bug at all:

1. you lose hp when you cast a spell that goes to or below 0 bp

2. casting spells will get you drowsy extremely quick when casting with no bp

I rarely see a vampire character on before, and I'm sure not expecting that to change, if any, less; however, I do know that sometimes this useful statistic is ignored.

If anything, I would like to request that vampire's spells be fixed rather than attempting to fix other vampire's status that wasn't broken.

And so we finally got erased after years of slightly rubbing the eraser around the edges.

how can we talk about vampirism without bringing up caster/melee, when thats all this game is about. how can u make a point without having examples?

Ive got it.

Instead of making vampires uber complicated, lets just simplify them

if we think of blood as lifeforce, as it usually is for most things, then we can keep vampire mostly the same, only alot more simple.

Casting from blood is cheaper than casting from mana, right? keep it the same, or change the ammount that it is cheaper.

Eliminate Blood, and Bloodpoints. - they are old, and outdated.

With no blood, Feed should not restore bloodpoints... obviously. perhaps it should restore an ammount of Hps - read below for a further explaination as to why.

When a vampire used to cast, it would subtract from thier total bloodpoints. if they attempted to cast with no blood, it removed a set % of thier hps - this was understood to me that if they had no blood, the spell powered itself from your life-force, or your very being in order to power itself. I liked that idea, it made sense, so how about this. when a vampire casts a spell, it takes away HP at the same cost that it used to remove blood. perhaps this percentage can be teaked to account for the fact that a char has alot more hps than blood, but keep in mind that hps are alot more valuable to a character in combat that mana. so lets assume that we are dealing with a 1:10 ratio here. casting a 300 mana spell costs 30 blood. instead, it will cost 30 Hps - ya with me so far? eh, I dont like those numbers. perhaps it should be 1:5 - so it would be 60 hps. I like that. and for Vampyrs, instead of double blood points - lets say thier spells cost a different ammount... like the 1:10 I was referring to.

In this way, Vampyrs still get access to being able to cast alot of spells, but those spells will now hurt them without fail, everytime, with no way to bypass it. heck, I would even consider changing the ratios so that vampire casting cost = hp damage on a 1:1 ratio, and Vampyr is on a 1:2 ratio. so the 300 mana spell would deal 300 damage to a vampire, and 150 damage to a vampyr. ya, im thinkin about it - and I think this would be balanced very well with the most recent numbers I gave, and still make Vampyrs quite useful.

as for feed.. it deals damage, and restores your own health by the same ammount - why not? whats 20-40 hp gained every 2 seconds? casting heal would still be more efficient, if it had a cie in it. it would be mostly useful to lower level characters, and I point out, that lower level characters do less damage with feed that higher level characters. so THAT part is already balanced...

So please, Im looking for imput on my idea here. im looking for a solution that will make everyone happy, and while alot of people agree that vamps were overpowered before, I hear about the same number of voices wanting as little change to them as possible.

Here is your middle-ground - I hope you like it.

Bruteus Lonewolf

Perhaps just eliminating the ability cast heal without bloodpoints would solve all these problems.


If we assume vampires use a bit of their lifeforce to cast spells it wouldn't make sense for them to be able to use their lifeforce to cast spells that would increase their lifeforce... Man this does sound weird.


Perhaps also lowering the strength of spells without Blood points also after they run out. I do think they should have more bloodpoints so they are able to cast a decent amount of spells. Nothing obscene but just like 5-7 without totally draining their BP. I'd tie this into complexity of each spell and perhaps give them 4BP for every level and then 1 for every five epic levels.

My idea has gotten really abstract and weird. Maybe I'll fix it later on.

So far, I have seen no movement in this thread since my post... I think it is time to make a decision. I put foward my idea... and ive gotten alot of support for it - but NONE HERE - WHERE IT COUNTS. it is to the point where yall NEED to put foward your ideas, or support the ones you see and like. I cant epic till Vamp is fixed... and im basically waiting on YOU guys! so please, PLEASE, contribute to the MUD you all play so much... and take a stand, one way or the other!

Bruteus Lonewolf

ive reworked an idea for this situation.

Vampires should get bp to half of the mana they would have normally with a slight MR pierce.

Vampyres would get bp equal to their total mana with a slightly bigger MR pierce.

The spell costs we have now for them would stay in effect.

I think this kina makes them balanced but not too powerful.

Due to the recented patch for vampire/vampyr. The disease is only good for 1 thing bite someone during a fight change them to vamps and bloodpurge. When use this way its a deadly combo. vamp someone and bloodpurge yourself. Hopfully the triggers from the foes would stop and because of the lack of power of casting. the people that are spells depended will lose the fight. (a simple pvp tactic)
There is a counter which is make a trigger to bloodpurge yourself.

or just dont use triggers and fight like a man, then if you have a problem with being a vamp you could just type c bloodpurge, then get on with your fight.

i respect what your saying about fighting but if you see better tactics use them.

more quotes from Home depot to come.

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