Dark Legacy MUD Forum

As we all know, there's a time or two (or for some, all the time) where people have to resort to breaking the law and attacking someone based on some sort of reason. Most of the time, it's for people not being respectful enough on a channel where it's visible, though at times, it's a confrontation that takes place face-to-face.

I have a way to solve the problem and a way to lighten the load of the JC a bit....assassins for hire. People can take out contracts against someone, posting it on the contract board, and there a small fee that's charged. The person is pardoned and is assigned a flag when they take up the contract.

I'll post more info if enough positive input is given.

I do not see how that would lighten the JC's load. It would still be murder and then we would have to have a whole new category for paying someone to committ murder. I just can see a lot of ways how this could be a headache.

i really liket his idea. i think it's a cool idea, but it's for all the wrong reasons.

this idea does not help out JGs. It however will give us some work to do because there are not enough criminals out there. :p

There was bounty code in place at one time, but it was grossly abused. The system could perhaps be refined but without the concept of pkilling being reviewed would serve little purpose. You'd just be paid to break the law.

My suggestions:


Make it possible to get away with murder. (only in regards to non-permadeath players)

And I don't mean just for the people who have friends in high places getting lighter treatment. Or people who have enemies in high places getting harsher treatment. (though I believe it happens and it's part of life)


But anyway, make it possible to get away with murder, and since for non permadeath players death is really just a (are you ready for this?)

---->>>>>>> MINOR INCONVENIENCE<<<<<<<------


It's pretty ridiculous to get /48 online hours/ for killing someone once and making them go through maybe, MAYBE, an hour of work to get a level depending on which level you're trying to get and tossing in a death or two.

The only reason I've ever commited murder that wasn't an agreed upon street fight was because someone was making an active effort to piss me off (or because they literally said "someone please kill me")

Now if someone murdered my character, at MOST the time I'd want them to spend is 8 hours. And that's for repeated attempts, I mean seriously, people let their ego's get too caught up in their character being killed, granted some huge tri-av going around killing lowbies is being a complete shmuck, and something should be designed for jerks who do that.

But getting away with Murder, would be a lot more fun, or at least make it harder to grab the criminals and throw them in jail. Like, make it so you have to Subdue the criminal, they can either come willingly, or you beat them into unconsciousness, and you add an hour or two for resisting arrest and striking an officer.

This would make assassination more feasible, and the people would still get some long jail time.


But anyway, there are just some times when people say so much crap that they deserve to have that minor inconvenience of being murdered. And I know that by killing someone your ego has obviously gotten involved as well, but really, as I said before, being killed isn't that big of a deal.

And frankly, speaking as one who is no stranger to the Dark Legacy Jails, I can vouch that when someone pisses me off enough, no amount of online time in jail is going to make me regret my decision. The fact I don't go and FRIVOLOUSLY murder people means A) they haven't pissed me off enough, and B) the jail time is too drastic to murder people for noreason. Every time I've commited murder in DL i loved it and enjoyed it, and I've even told chloe that every minute of it was worth it. Either make peaceable characters unkillable by other players if you don't want them murdering eachother, and only make guild wars and arena players killable. Or, just bring back the old deadly system, I still don't see/know what was wrong with it...other than peaceable characters making deadlies and pimping them out and logging them on only to kill people who are of weaker and then they level sit there.

so uhm uh...yeah...*blush* Whoo to assassination! Some people deserve the inconvenience of having to supp their corpse and go regain their exp. That includes me, weemster, matthew, quintos, and many of the other DL "problem people".

Personally, I don't think attacking players should be possible under normal conditions. Though I think we're better off without peaceful/deadly players split up, I don't think anyone should be able to just attack anyone.

Pkilling should be restricted to:

#1) The arena
#2) Guildwars (If you don't like it, leave the guild)
#3) A config option. Ie, add a config +deadly. If you turn it on, you can fight and be fougth by others similarily configured. Turn it off, you can't get bothered. But then in all honesty, the arena takes care of this. But if you wanted the broader "Deadly" experience, make it a config option, so you can play it most of the time if you want, and if say you go epicing or go running through Xchan against mobiles and don't want to worry about it, turn it off until later.

I never liked the fact that if you WERE deadly, you were stuck that way permanently. People argue that you could kill someone, loot them, then go peaceful to avoid retaliation if it were configurable. If you don't bring looting back though, and require a cool down before "config -deadly" is allowed, its not a problem.

I realise that it sounds like I contradicted myself in the above entry, however I believe both are true.

A) it's silly to get 48 online hours for a murder that takes about an hour to recover the ill effects from.

B) If someone wants to kill another player enough, no amount of time is going to stop him, and I doubt he's going to feel that his time in jail wasn't well spent.

Cause as it is, people just keep their guy logged on, and go watch DVD's or something during that time. You're really only punishing people with dial-up, and even then they sometimes have a seperate line just FOR the dial-up so they can leave it on 24/7.

I agree, leave looting out, but bring back scalping! Or skinning altogether! maybe make armor out of other players

yeah man bring back scalping lol i want lots of scalps of other players

but yeah i agree with avest on the 48 hours deal, it seems a bit over the top for one murder, i'd say bring out the big hour punishments for repeat offenders or someone who's just murdered someone 9 times in a row with res killing

and a config +deadly option would be cool cos atm, with the arena, people shoot their mouth off on a channel or in a room and then when you challenge them to silence them, they just decline and you dont really want to serve 48 hours for one murder........but if both people were deadlies, they could just go at it like hammer and tongs there and then and try to sort their problems out with a bit of good old fashioned violence and blood letting

Ok, so I can sense the general feeling amongst the immortals is no and the mortals is yes, so let's figure this one out:

1) 9 times out of 10, someone does something to someone and they get away with it. This is usually because a) the person doesn't feel big enough to do anything to the person antagonizing them, b) the person being antagonized figures nothing will come out of it, c) the antagonizer gets punished, then continues to do it, or d) all of the above. So you mean to tell me that by using a legal method of getting rid of the person's problem with the antagonee is going to work? It hasn't yet. Why do you think there are repeat offenders like Rokan, Sylvan, etc?

2) Usually when someone wants to take care of it legally, like in the arena or through a guild war, the other person chickens out and either declines or logs off. So what purpose did that serve? None. Then the person who was challenged comes back, mouths off or does the same thing to the same person again, repeat the aforementioned.

There needs to be some method of taking care of the problem that involves little to no immortal interaction and little to no jailtime. I agree with Avestifal, and I'm on JC, in that I think the current punishment system is a bit harsh when you're trying to take care of someone when those of a higher power aren't around to take care of for them. That's why I suggested the assassin for higher. I come from MUDs where pkill is a daily thing and usually when a deadly kills a peaceful, they're given a certain time in hell for their actions...usually a day RL time. But they can serve that offline. And you could pay glory to become a deadly. Alas, if you were peaceful, you could join a deadly clan and the flag in your mstat would change to pkill.

If nothing's done, people are going to continue to act like a bunch of annoying twits and think they can get away with it. And I, for one, am tired of seeing these people going around thinking that they can do stuff and not be affected, or do stuff and think they won't get very much time.

If the problem is harassment, then this is not the answer. LAWS HARASSMENT (I can't log into the game right now, that should be right) should state the rules pretty clearly. Log files will be checked, situation verified, and game bans handed out. That's how it works.

Having a legal method of killing an individual isn't going to make them any less annoying or shut them up. In may, in fact, cause them to bother you even more.

I also agree that there should be "offline" durations to jail time, not just online durations. I've not used any of the jail commands or been involved with the JC, so I don't know if this is possible at all of if there's a list of crimes with pre-determined durations of onlnie jail time. Clearify it for me. Personally, I just mark accounts or ban them, an option obviously not available to the JC, but what a Caretaker should be called on to perform if a player is out of hand.

If they break a rule in the power of the JC to punish, punish them. If its not in your power, bring it to the Caretakers. No, it isn't the quickest way of removing them. But the kinds of actions that truly punish a player such as loss of characters or ability/right to login will never be given to mortals.

So no, I don't see how being able to "legally" murder someone will resolve the problem, while potentially it could make it quite a bit more irritating.

There's a list of pre-determined jail times, but it's only accessible when the person's been thrown into jail either by a JC guard or another guard within a town.

contrary to kariyana's comment. i do believe that the currently jailing system does work. I truely believe that alot of people control themselve because to them it is not worth spending time in jail. One good example is me

Another issue that i like to bring up is the autojail command. I do not like the idea that a JG can just walk up to a criminal and type "jail johndoe' and poof he goes to jail. I think that JGs should be able to combat the criminals. Perhaps after a certain HP lose, we have the ability to handcuff them/tie them down or something to that before we can jail them. This promotes RP, it also requires a little effort from JG making it more fun. In addition, this would promote team work amoung JGs. Should all or at least most of JG fails to defeat the criminals, we then have the ability to set up bounty. Yes i'm refering to the bounty system, but this time, only open to JGs. We can hire people around alora to bring in the criminal by using JG trust fund. This fund would draw its money from criminals. When a criminal is brought to justices and before he/she is jailed, he/she has to pay a fee that goes directly into the AoC account. The fee penalty will depends on the crime commited.

Things dont need to be exactly this way, but you all get the idea.

I think you could hire an acutual assassin. There is an actual epic class called "Assassin". It is a psion/ranger/mage

yes lingo, I suggested the resist arrest thing earlier.

Perhaps maybe make it so the JG's have to use the subdue command? Or headbutt him until he's dazed etc?

I think the resist jailing is good. But I feel I should bring up the fact it would probably end up being more than one vs. only one. This is inherently flawed. If there were bands of killers (such as clans once were) they could fend off the policing force more adequately and thus be more of a threat and more of a reason to have policing players working together. Such as, once you commit a crime, namely murder, you are then an outlaw, and deadly for life. You may join up with others like yourself. I.E. build a crime syndicate. That would be cool.

And another point should be brought up. When was the last time massive PvP took place on this MUD? I'm not talking arena either. Arena is a joke. Does anyone even know how balanced PvP would be? I know there's still a lot of loose ends when it comes to PK on this MUD.

k, pk things we would need +

+ after death, 5 minute free timer - safe from pkilling (to collect corpse)

+ typing config -deadly (to go peacie) i don't like, i would rather have a 'quest" that you use to become deadly, and you use to become peacie, yes, this would mean some people would be camping the spot where the quest made you peacie, but hey, no pain no gain

+ X amount of items drop into corpse upon death, the rest stay with the player, a formula would be used to determine which items drop.

+ JC members using subdue to take down a criminal, sounds cool

+ criminals config +resist (or something) also sounds cool

I like the crime syndicate idea. I also suggest you can only be jailed in towns where you commited crimes and allied towns. If you commit a crime in Tarsonis, the City of the Forsaken should like you more, I think, and you will not be arrested there. But go to Tarsonis or Midian, and the NPCs (and JG) will try to jail you. Another idea is residency in a city. If you kill a resident of Tarsonis in Pixie Forest, and word gets back to Tarsonis/Midian/etc. then you're wanted there.

I would also suggest that for some period of time (be it half hour, hour, etc, according to your crime) that there would be a bounty on your head. If you continuously commited crimes, this bounty would raise and raise, and so would jailtime if you were caught. Of course, this money has to come from some where, so the residents of cities would pay taxes (and the MUD also matches an appropriate amount from the shops in the town) to pay for these bounties. Of course, you could choose not to be a resident of a town, but this results in lack of rights in any town (although all cities would be neutral to you, generally)

Along with this idea, certain cities could be at war, or allied. If you are at war with a city and you enter that city, you are basically free to be killed. This means that the stronger you are, the more likely you are to either build your own town through player hamlets, or to have no allegiance.

These player hamlets would not be at war with any NPC cities, but instead only with each other. Guards would also need to be provided for the hamlets to protect and jail, with wages coming from taxes. There would doubtlessly be some player hamlets which would be centers of crime in which there are few, biased, or no laws at all and would basically be pkill areas.

Along with these cities and residencies, there would be disguises (which randomly pop on kill of a guard) to let a rogue sneak into this town without being noticed as an outsider. This is how it would be possible for bounties from Tarsonis to be placed on people who kill Tarsonis citizens in the City of the Forsaken. These rogue spies would have the ability to 'record' the crimes which take place and either use the mail command to 'mail testimony Tarsonis' or to pass these back to Tarsonis by themselves or by use of messengers.

These disguises would be seen through by those of high rank in your own city, or possibly even told to all citizens through a 'citytalk' channel which could be introduced. This would allow large scale attacks of cities by rogues which infiltrate the city and destroy walls/unlock doors to let non-rogues into the cities.

These walls of course would have to be coded in certain areas of cities so that a rogue could use explosives (possibly the pearl potion, or a timed bomb which hurts all mobs/players in the room also) but in planting this bomb, there is a certain chance that they will be revealed from their disguise.

There would also be a certain chances that the disguise would wear off on movement, like sneak. This also requires witnesses in the rooms, either mobs, or just programs which will alert the city guards (and all citizens through 'citytalk' or even mail) when a rogue is uncovered or a city wall is breached.

In some peaceful cities, there would be even more laws, such as unsheathed weapons can aggro guards and result in a small jail time (only 5-10 minutes). Of course, in these cities there are worse laws for those caught in espionage.

Of course, before a certain level (30-40 I would suggest), players are immune to the politics of the cities (maybe they choose no alliance til tri-av either) so they cannot be harmed by random spies and such.

*Pants* I think that's about it for now.

EDIT:
Err...forgot to mention the crime syndicate. Those who are not aligned with any city could be aligned with a crime syndicate (invite only, you don't just apply for them ) which would be kept a secret...only leaders, and other higher-ups would know who all the members are and would mediate discussion and plans in the syndicate. If a city discovers you are in a crime syndicate, they would alert all allies also and those cities would try to jail you (for a certain amount of time, until they forgot).

EDIT 2:
Set a new topic for this thread, so it can be discussed seperately. If Immies want it all here, just delete my other thread please.

NOTE:
Just because you are in a crime syndicate wouldn't mean you can't be associated with a city. A crime syndicate could even have major influence, and practically control a city, as seen throughout history. Although, being tied in with a crime syndicate may make some of the justice loving cities declare war on you.

I'm surprised this hasn't been implemented. It makes the most amount of sense out of all. Guild wars could be allowed to happen by not triggering the murder flag even if you weren't deadly. But, in addition, a config +deadly was allowed, that allowed you to kill other deadlies.

BUT, config +deadly could, like you say, have a cool off time of say, 48 ingame hours. Thats enough time to suffer the consequences of whatever stuff you pull off. In addition, there could also be a delay to it. A countdown per se. Not instant. Like you config -deadly, and it waits 5 RL mins, then turns it off. Would prevent some random cheapo crap.

And corpse looting? I don't think that should be allowed even for deadlies, not unless some SERIOUS changes took place, especially in the cits. It would be pretty easy to take somebodies stuff, then hide in your citadel until your cool-off time ran out. Not cool at all.

~Ocardus/Ridley

At it's current state, this MUD is not geared to PK. There's simply too many ways it can be abused.

If PK were opened up on this MUD, it would have to have different rules compared to the rest of the MUD. It wouldn't work with the current set of features and functions of the MUD.

I like crime syndicate idea.

I never said make killing *legal* I said make it *possible* to get away with murder. I don't know how this would work.

Also, make something like a Config -battlecry, so that you don't automatically have to advertise the fact you're murdering someone, I don't know many hitmen who shout out "die snorkules!" and then gut their victim like a herring.

I dunno about the "quests to become deadly bit". I think that you should be able to config +deadly but have to pay like 2000 glory to go peacie.

Or like jorelani suggested, make it so you go into a criminal thing and join up with others. And perhaps, when you get caught and serve your jail sentence you can still be part of it and lay low, but you have to do something liek commit a murder to get in.

I think the X amount of items dropping into a corpse would be a pain in the arse to code. Maybe make it like, a piece of jewellry, have a list of options like A weapon, A ring, A bindi, A templas, Glasses drop into the corpse and you can loot one of those things.

Also: Maybe make it only those who've avatared can go deadly? Like, "congrats, upon reaching level 50 you have avatared and can now have the choice to play a deadly or remain peacie!" And if a player wants to try being a deadly he can, but he remains deadly until his dual avatar, at which point he's given option again etc. Maybe give them the choice every 50 levels? (make sure that the game doesn't count the multi-levels as seperate levels)

I don't think murder should be a forgivable offense. If you take a life in real life, you are marked forever. Be it by peers or your god. If you're out to kill someone, you're breaking the rules of life, and jailing is just ridiculous.

I realise this is just a game, but lets be a little more logical about this.

A person may start out peaceful and become a killer, and a player who chooses deadly remains deadly. Could there be some sort of redemption? Now that's an idea.

As for random items being dropped... hrm. It wouldn't be hard to code, I assure you. But perhaps have substitute items that drop instead? You can skin someone, and depending on their notarity or power, gain gold/glory by turning it into the officials. Or simply be rewarded for destroying the 'evil-doer' on the spot. This would go for peacefuls upholding the law in their town.

Should a PKer kill a PKer from another syndicate, they're rewarded clan equipment (some sort or point system, such as clan sympathy). Killing a member of another syndicate could worsen the relationship between yours and their, and slowly evolve into warring factions. This could be done a number of ways.

i'm all for the PK. i think this mud is ready for pk but only under strict setups. I'm not too exited about the looting because i'm afraid to lose even one piece of my equ, mb that's just me. (besides, whatever i may loot is probably useless for me )


5 minute grace time is a definite must. this will prevent repeated murders.

crime syndicate sounds good, but this would also require alot of tweak or it may get out of control.

I strongly support the config +deadly and config -deadly.

I'm uncertain about the subdue option to bring criminals to justice. It would be extremely hard to beat a strong player while subdue is on.

Guildwar obviously does not work because there will always be a couple of people in the guild who do not want war. As a result, most guilds don't dare to declare or accept wars. Also, as of right now, guildwars serve little purpose other than kicking each other's ass with no real victory. How do you know who wins the war? by what condition. This have been demonstrated in the past when RH was at war with LoD. One guild simply stop logging or have their members leave the guild.

WHy not make it so only a few types of people could accept a contract, i.e. an acutual epic class "Assassin. But deffinetly have a + or - deadly.

taking over a "thing" whether it be hamlet, town, city, etc

lets say player takes over a town that has been 'predefined' to be able to be taken over.

There will only be one such city, and whoever is in control of it will gain some sort of perk, resources?

We could make the tarsonis mine 'controllable' and make another tiny mine somewhere, that yields very little resources.
People will surely want to take it over then.

How would it be taken over? If the controlling group has a certain item in their possession (a gem) as long as they are online, and in the area, they will be in control of said area. once they leave, logout, whatever, gem diseappears, returns to its safe room. So, a controlling group would hold the gem by a person, person gets tired, wants to log, gives it to a guild mate, guildmate keeps it, eventually either is looted of the gem, or simply dies, (whoever kills the person with the gem, gets the gem)

(it doesnt even need to be an item, it could be simply a coded title)

eventually, controlling guild needs to sleep, logs off, some other guild walks in, nobody to fight, takes control


and as suggested - possible uprisings by the npc inhabitants - perhaps assisting in the overthrowing of the guild in power.