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 Post subject: [30-01-2005] Codeport Testing: Inventory management+labeling
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 11:53 pm 
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Heya. :)

I've been playing a new character, and found some parts of the inventory system to be counter intuitive, hard to manage or easy to mess up (several containers, 30 different potions and a tent filled with random junk springs to mind).

I've been working on making inventory management easyer for newbies (and pros), and i've done it as follows:

- Objects are visually grouped in the following groups: "Containers", "Foodstuffs", "Keys", "Magical components", "Music related", "Pet", "Wands and Potions", "Resources", "Treasure", "Armor", "Weapons", "Furniture", "Tools", "Other". Due to some code issues this isn't optional, sorry guys! :)
- I coded a label command, allowing you to label an object with any keyword for later reference. For example, 'label portal cookies' allows you to 'put <item> cookies' without problems. Unlike engrave, it is only seen by the character who labelled it, it is free, it doesn't affect the objects name, and can be done from anywhere. It also has another function:
- Anti potion-clutter. You can add a label to a single potion, and all other potions of that type will automatically attain the same label. (For example, if Uguu find a azure potion, and finds it bestows firebreath, he types 'label azure firebreath' and any potions he'll find afterwards will show up with the 'firebreath' keyword. He can easily quaff them by typing 'quaff firebreath'.

I still have some other inventory tweaks coming up, like a find command to scan your whole inventory for a keyword, or a config option that automatically takes items you need from your containers. Easyer Re-equipping after death is also on the agenda.

What I need tested:
- The effect of item sorting on mobile resets. (Because of the groups, mobiles are sorted)
- Your preferred order for the object groups. Currently, I intend for 'containers' to stay at the top and 'other' at the bottom. I placed the rest just on a whim.
- Are there any groups missing that you would like to see?
- Any other items that should be labelled as potions are? (Like one is labelled X, all are labelled X?
- Are there any really cumbersome inventory management related tasks you chore with?
- Anything else you feel you should let me know. :)

As always, the codeport is open and free for you to test things.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 11:59 pm 
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To be honest, the only thing I think we need is the ability to change container keywords, since we can already engrave them. Re-equipping is EASY, just drop all your eq ONCE, and pick it up/wear it in the order it should be worn. Poof no more re-equip nightmares.

It just seems like a lot of effort for you to go through grouping everything, when re-keyworded/named containers would let everyone do it themselves however they wished. Just my 2 gold.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 11:59 pm 
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i tried it and it won't work for me


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 12:21 am 
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Gerret wrote:
i tried it and it won't work for me


What did you try? You are going to have to be more specific for us.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 12:23 am 
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i tried the label command


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 12:31 am 
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Label <item> <name>

So if I had all my runes in 4.portal, I would

label 4.portal runes

Then, when I 'l in runes' it would automatically look into that portal, so I wouldnt have to remember numbers...Just names.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 12:42 am 
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It's awesome Cele =)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 12:44 am 
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LOOKing at a labelled item yields no results.

Example:

label 2.por axes
You label an extradimensional portal with 'axes'.
l axes
You do not see that here.
l in axes
<<SPAM -- shows whats inside the portal, same with examine, duh>>

Put, get, examine, look IN, all seem to work...

But plain old look doesnt. Any reason for this?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:18 am 
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srry i was stupid earlier and did not think it through thoughly enough, i figuered it out. I think it is awsome i have foud tho that sometimes a catagory splitsinto 2 of the same catagory, namely magical components


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 9:52 am 
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weems wrote:
LOOKing at a labelled item yields no results.

Example:

label 2.por axes
You label an extradimensional portal with 'axes'.
l axes
You do not see that here.
l in axes
<<SPAM -- shows whats inside the portal, same with examine, duh>>

Put, get, examine, look IN, all seem to work...

But plain old look doesnt. Any reason for this?


There are a few commands that use their own code to locate an object, as 'normal look' does. i'll fix it. :) Thanks for the report!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 9:54 am 
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Gerret wrote:
srry i was stupid earlier and did not think it through thoughly enough, i figuered it out. I think it is awsome i have foud tho that sometimes a catagory splitsinto 2 of the same catagory, namely magical components


Which char did this happen on, what objects appear in the identically labelled groups, and does it resolve itself automatically after a while?

Might be the case that processing/using objects breaks the sorting. Do you think it does? :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 10:12 am 
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Hrulgin wrote:
To be honest, the only thing I think we need is the ability to change container keywords, since we can already engrave them. Re-equipping is EASY, just drop all your eq ONCE, and pick it up/wear it in the order it should be worn. Poof no more re-equip nightmares. It just seems like a lot of effort for you to go through grouping everything, when re-keyworded/named containers would let everyone do it themselves however they wished. Just my 2 gold.


I agree avatars mostly dont /need/ these tricks, as after a while you become skilled in handling and adressing ten portals and more than 5000+ individual objects on the same character. Either that, or you'll configure your client to do most things for you.

But what I found while playing for a bit that I wasn't able to examine or use my gear effectively. I keep getting the contents of potion belts and treasure chests thrown through my tent. Glancing in it and deciding if I have any tricks left to save myself is likely to get me killed. :P I must be getting old. *snif*

On newbie death newbies tend to just get all corpse, wear all. This is what the majority can grasp, seeing that they get all sorts of new things flung at them. they probably wont notice they are now wearing two black potions in their hands instead of a newbie mace and a shield. Next time they jump into battle, they are ready for a painful experience. :P

Anyway, with these things in, I might even avatar a char! wow! ;)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 4:01 pm 
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just wondering, would it be possible to make certain objects not wearable?

like keys and potions?

or, only let something be wearable if it has the 'wield / shield' flag set?

right now, anything can be held, regardless of the flags, and that is a source of confusion for many new players


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 5:14 pm 
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You get A Slingstone from an extradimensional portal
wear slingstone
You can't wear, wield, or hold that.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:06 pm 
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theres a few exceptions, thats one of them


it goes by the object type

keys can be held, and used as shields

food can be held, and used as shields

among many others


i would rather the 'being wielded, or used as shield' only happen when i specifically make an object to be used for that.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 9:23 pm 
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Why? I can see that they shouldn't be used as shields. However WHY can't I clobber someone with my severed arm? Why can't I attack them with my beer bottle? Why can't I use keys as a weapon?

In one battle of WW2 a US Marine had his leg severed in a bonzai charge via a katana. He killed his attacker by beating the enemy (who had a sword) to death with his own severed leg.

Fights in bars can often have bottle, or broken bottles used as weapons. Yes, they are containers, but can also be weapons.

Keys are some of the most effective weapons useable in hand-to-hand fighting for adding a little something extra to punch or gouge with.

What about cloaks and large pieces of cloth? Are not those easy to use as shields, or to block and parry with?

Anything you have can be used as a weapon, and anything you lift can be thrown. I like it that way and think it should stay that way.\


Problems that I see which need to be addressed seperately:
1. Keys and food should not be default shields
2. To throw something, you should have to hold it first
3. missile weapon ammo currently can be thrown for near full damage it would have from being fired. Try throwing an arrow effectively sometime :)
4. potions and containers should have a chance to shatter when used as weapons. Sips left should define strength of damage "You break a bottle over Bob's head, dousing him with corrosive!"
5. cloth items should also be able to be held and used something like a shield.

Other then those three problems, and any I might have missed, I don't see a reason for radical change in items as weapons/shields.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:43 am 
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i agree with that, but of course to a pixie, a giant key might make a great blocking weapon..

i think thats what celeborn intended with the 'everything can be used' thing he put in.. but people complain about it, and when it happens in the case of the newbie, its frustrating.

for the non newbie player, wearing anything you pick up is great, but for the newbie, they dont understand that they are trying to fight someone with a piece of bread. (Why cant i do damage?!)

and yeah, the thrown objects thing does definitely need some tweaking.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:28 am 
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Yeah? Name some other stupid things newbies do.... You don't need to change things just because newbies are 'ignorant'.

"Why do I keep dying every time I enter this one room? I died 12 times now!" (when its a deathtrap)

"How do I wear my helmet?"

"How do I look at something?"

"Why am I not swinging at the enemy in autocombat? What you mean I have to jab and lunge?"

"Why does this level 50 mob kill me so easy?"

"Could someone give me some free gear thats really good?"

"Why can't I find Blue Diamonds?"

You name it, a newbie has either done it or said it. We can't newbie proof the mud. You have to remember, newbies are SO creative. They will always think of something new to do wrong. They will always forget to read the new helpfile, and if you force them to read it they won't pay attention to what it says.


On a side note, currently everything is a hold item, and not a weapon. You use your bare fists when your attacking with a loaf of bread, for example. I think we should be able to use most anything as a bludgeon weapon, damage stats based on its material and weight.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:07 pm 
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Celeborn this was on gerret. it happened to fecs after i did something with one. I think your right in the processing idea, today i was playing on the normal port, when i got a vial from a chest it was the 2nd item down in the chest. i looked at th chest again and the rest of thesame type of vial moved down to the last item listed in the chest, thats wat happened to the fec on the code port.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:14 pm 
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Um im not sure if its entirely appropriate in this thread but it concerns labels for resources...for example you can get 10 uncut port and 10 cut port but you cant get 10 unworked port...and thats extremely annoying if you have a portal of combined processed and unprocessed resources namely fur/hide/skin/bone/scale...currently if i have even a bit extra left at the end (of processed resources), i get rid of it because its too much of a hassle to keep seperate somewhere. THerefore i believe the unworked resources should have the keyword unworked with it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:30 pm 
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i was just thinking it would be a cool idea if you where crafting, you labeled an excepional quaility item "mp lvl (whatever)" all items of that quality and lvl would be labeled that.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 3:33 am 
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I don't really like some of the weilding, and agree with Isa on this one. I had a gate guard block my AXE with a freakin key. If someone tried to block a blow from a huge emeralite axe, (and someone who happens to have quite a bit of damroll) The key wouldn't do a thing. It may break, or simply not work at all.......


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:18 am 
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I found an error with the new labeling system.

Every time I log out, and back on the order of my portals change. Portal one becomes portal 6, portal 2 becomes portal 1, etc, etc.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:21 am 
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Yeah, also the bought/guild noteboards are buggy too....
http://forums.dark-legacy.com/viewtopic.php?t=572

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