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bone equ and weapons
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Author:  lingolas [ Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:46 pm ]
Post subject:  bone equ and weapons
I found this while doing my physics lab. i thought it might be helpful in case you (celeborn) wants to play around with bone equ.

"So, why can a properly executed karate kick break a concrete block without fracturing bones [16]? First, bone is a very strong material. Its ultimate compressive strength is approximately 40 times larger than concrete"

the above passage talks about human bones.
Author:  weems [ Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:47 am ]
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The problem is, we can't properly shape the bone into a weapon without the bone losing most, if not all, of it's strength, which is why bones are limited on DL.
Author:  Isabelle [ Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:56 am ]
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yup, uses for bones (in my world) would include such things as

hilts
clubs
figurines
decorations (adding bone decorations to sheathes and other things)

spears possibly
crude knives (for low level characters) (very low max damage)
Author:  Gerret [ Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:35 pm ]
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in the game you could add a spell like ironwood to the bone to renew its strength, also if you got a big bone, couldn't you make a big weapon?
Author:  Isabelle [ Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:41 pm ]
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BOOO to the ironwood, that was a bad spell to begin with


however, bone is not strong, its like using a piece of wood, splintery wood


i suppose though, we 'could' possibly have bone slashing weapons, and make like some skill (alchemy) which would be used to make it super strong.
Author:  Quintos [ Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:34 pm ]
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Maybe its just me, but it would seem to work well for the hitting part of a hammer if the bone is big enough...I'm pretty sure the smaller races would find a T-Rex bone plenty big enough to make a hammer from, without compromising the structural strength of the bone.
Author:  Isabelle [ Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:04 pm ]
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a hammer = a club / mace / blunt smashy thing
Author:  Jorelani [ Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:42 am ]
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I would think it'd be dependent on what creature you got it off of. So you slayed an orge, but it's bones stack with chicken bones. Break it up somehow...
Author:  lingolas [ Sun Feb 20, 2005 8:43 pm ]
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i have never tried to break a chickens femur before, i wonder how strong it is. Next time you eat chicken, try to break it and post the result.
Author:  Jorelani [ Mon Feb 21, 2005 6:41 am ]
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Not that hard. You can do it with your bare hands.
Just saying, an ogre bone club would be better than a chicken bone club. Unless you're about a foot tall going up against one foot tall enemies. And for the foot and a half tall people, you could get the +1 turkey drum.
Author:  Isabelle [ Mon Feb 21, 2005 6:55 am ]
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yes, a bone is hard, and if its very big and heavy, it will cause blunt damage.

if you sharpen the end of a long bone, it will probably pierce nicely

if you whittle it down thin, like a sword, you will slash with it, it will snap in half, may cause some initial scraping slicing damage, but the weapon is now just good for maybe piercing.

bones are only good for piercing, or blunt smashing

and with blunt smashing, the bone is not that strong, it will break.

Please remember, the bone you get from a dinner, is still somewhat soft and flexible (moisture) (which is why the turkeys wishbone must be set aside for a week or two to dry out before you break it) :)

So it seems strong at first because it has moisture in it, giving it flex, but after awhile, its brittle, and will break under stress.

Bone hammers are poor weapons for this reason.

Antlers, a little stronger, but pretty much the same.
Ivory Tusks, better.
Author:  Jorelani [ Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:13 am ]
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What're the limitations to dragon bone? We're dealing with fantasy here, not just real woodland creature bone.
Author:  Isabelle [ Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:58 pm ]
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in my mind, dragon bones are the same as any other bone

unless you use fangs, i would say fangs would be hard, and magical
maybe even like claws/talons


and their scales are of course stronger than other creatures.


i'm not convinced on the bone thing

however, if you did say ok, dragon bones, magical, strong

then.. i would want them to be magical, non enchantable :)

their enchant would be predefined when created. (all dragon bone weapons would have +1 percent chance of stunning opponent) or something. (plus the better than average damage factor)
Author:  Kiasyn [ Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:36 pm ]
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you cant get dragon bones anyway :P all dragons salvage into scales
Author:  Jorelani [ Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:44 pm ]
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Not the point. Just an example given.
Author:  Gerret [ Thu Feb 24, 2005 2:26 am ]
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On mithbusters they tested a human femur and it was about as strong as a piece of poplar wood, so now you have a basis, i guess
Author:  ShanaArkai [ Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:11 pm ]
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yes but the femur bone is the strongest and most dense bone in the human body. so i guess it would also depend on what bone you slavaged from the corpse. if you get a finger bone you could make..... an arrow head and if you got a rib it could be a.......hook or somthing and a femur would wind up being a club or somthing like that
Author:  Gilgolad [ Sun Feb 27, 2005 10:26 pm ]
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its not specific as to which bone you salvage in the game anyway, so it doesn't matter at all.
Author:  Jorelani [ Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:50 am ]
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Gilgolad wrote:
its not specific as to which bone you salvage in the game anyway, so it doesn't matter at all.


And thus is the reason for the topic. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to cry for all humanity.
Author:  Gilgolad [ Sun Mar 06, 2005 1:20 am ]
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You just want to complicate and confuse the rest of us. Go play a more detailed mud then, if you're soooooooooooooooooooooo picky!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :x

And besides, Celeborn is no longer around to change anything anymore, so it'll never ever happen. :roll:

You salvage the Coxyx bone from the corpse of Jorelani, and carve it into an automated booger picker. :twisted:
Author:  Vogar Eol [ Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:55 am ]
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We of The Circle of Steel have made intense studies in the realms of many many materials. In purticular the bones of the Dragons, which we dwarves use as a secret ingredient in our steel.

Long ago the dwarves took interest in the bone of dragons, for it is black, and not white like the bones of other creatures. It is also lighter and stronger then other bones, and resists flame that would turn normal bones to ash. Surely this was no common material? But then dragons are splended and terrible creatures.

The bones must be light, and yet our studies of them have proved they are not hollow. The black color seems to come from a glass like structure forming the between the actual cells of the bone itself. When I say glass like, I mean the magical probings have show that the structure has no crystaline structure, but is indeed a metal. More exact, it is Adamantium or as you lesser races refer to the element Adamantite.

Since the living tissues of the dragon appear to place the metal one atom at a time, no crytals are formed. As such the material is a true amorphic solid and magical probings prove it exibits surface tension much like a liquid does. In short, micro fractures do not accure as they would in a crystaline structure. The atoms are so tightly packed they push each other back into place the same way water reforms itself as a bug walks across it.

Saddly, the bones of a dead dragon don't have quite the same elastic nature that living ones likely have. Without the tissue cells to support the structure (much like straw supports a clay brick) the material will shatter expolisively should its maxium stress be reached. The sudden release of the elastic engery causes smoldering fragments to fly in many directions.

An interesting note is that Adamantite veins in the mines are not really veins at all. They are the skeletal remains of long dead dragons. When the "bones" are melted the Adamantite flows out of the calcium deposits that were once cell structure. The unlearned mistake this for limestone. However, since the same deposit meathods of a dragon's body can't be reproduced, the metal forms a crystaline structure. While this might not be quite as elastic, it lacks the shatter effect of "dead" bone. Would be a bit rough to have your armour break into burning splinters wouldn't it?

Anyway, methinks I have told you weak minded unlearned races enough about bones, specifically dragon bones. Just let it be known that not all bones are the same, least of all dragon bones. But I wouldn't expect a dragon to know what dragon guts are made of. After all dragons don't kill dragons, dwarves do :) And then we make fine weapons and armours from the remains.

I bid you good day, and happy huntings.
Author:  Micheal [ Tue Mar 29, 2005 4:47 am ]
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personally i like where this one is going but to tell the truth you people cant honestly say that you know how bones work in real life unless you study them.......everyone who does raise their hand......in that case then u should probably not say things about bones such as the turkeys wishbone........it is a very small very thin bone.....compare that to the femur bone of a elephant.....very big size difference in both length and thickness.
now right there i dont think that humidity has anything to do with the difference between the strength of a turkey bone and an elephant bone.....now also take into consideration that we also have many "mythical" creatures to consider here.......dragons, drakes, giant spiders(those dont have bones tho) among others
noone and i mean noone can say what those creatures bones are comprised of or how strong they are.....sorry vogar
so the main point im putting here is that before you say that you cant use bones because they shatter..........make sure you consider the different size and type of bones youre talking about
Author:  malkier [ Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:56 am ]
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even so, veeeerrry nice vogar! that was a GREAT explanationy thingy, thanks for enlightening me :D *cheers*

somehow i don't think the caretakers are going to bother about the different types of bone until all the other, more major patches are done..after all, in the big picture of changing economy, changing crafting system and everything else that is being planned, which type of bone you salvaged seems irrelevant...
Author:  Vogar Eol [ Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:54 am ]
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With all due respect, Micheal, my post was IC. I can see that my time writing it was likely wasted. If you liked my theory on the metaliods go research a real life compound called LiquidMetal2.

OOC bones are actually more or less velcro on a smaller scale. The bone fibers can tear and mend more or less instantly as long as the bone is alive. Once it dies, it becomes basically a piece of "rock" for all practical purposes. If the velcro is pulled appart, it doesn't have the spring to stick together again.
Author:  Celeborn [ Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:10 am ]
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malkier wrote:
even so, veeeerrry nice vogar! that was a GREAT explanationy thingy, thanks for enlightening me :D *cheers*

somehow i don't think the caretakers are going to bother about the different types of bone until all the other, more major patches are done..after all, in the big picture of changing economy, changing crafting system and everything else that is being planned, which type of bone you salvaged seems irrelevant...


Actually it is relevant and part of the economy patch. As crafts are getting an overhaul I might as well handle the issues concerning bonecarving/leatherworking and tailoring. :)
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