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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:32 am 
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I get this too. Real pain when it happens. :-\

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 6:33 am 
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is it at all possible you are just getting the juices confused?

i know this has been reported to me before, but everytime i try to recreate it, like making juices, and keeping them in my inventory for like a month, they never seem to change.

i can retry it again to try and do it.

give me some specifics to try (like specific juice type, specific bubbling vial or potion, where the item was stored in, etc)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:36 pm 
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It's happened to me with regular juices that I used deep red vials on...change to rainbow hues or acid resistance. I know I did not confuse it with any other juices because I wouldn't make either of those.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:46 am 
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Yes, and a 250 sip greater healing juice was changed to a poison resistance. I thought it was you Isa warning people to quit using 250 sip juices =P but I guess not. But I witnessed it myself in epics. Sounds like a glitch to me.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 8:32 am 
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oooo, and you know? Darrington - Shayde ALSO had a greater healing juice turn to a lesser poison. She was on my laptop, and I on my desktop and in a matter of logging off and logging back on - it had been changed.

Ideas? hrm. The only thing I am doing is logging my character now and if it happens, and send it to isa if it happens again. Shrug. =(

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:33 am 
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I'm more upset that the vials are so dang hard to come by now, added to the fact that they are almost immedialty used in a single 10 sip juice. :? I know that 5 juices can be vialed at once, but why not just revamp the entire juiceing system. For instance, with a single piece of processed fruit you can make 20 juices. Very unreal, even if it is just a game. Why not make it so you use more fruit peices, like 5-10, for one juice, and then make the quality determine the amount of sips. Like normal=10 sips, delicious=25 sips and exceptional=50 sips or something to that effect. Then make it so only exceptional quality can be vialed, then make it only one at a time. This way you can't have 20, 250 sip full heal juices, instead we now have a single resonable juice with 50 sips. Added to this, make the exceptional quality juices harder to create, like masterpeices. Makes the vials still worth useing, instead of getting that "I just wasted another deep red vial." feeling.
PLEASE say that you can agree with me. :?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 10:04 pm 
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i am not yet ready to increase juice capacity

yes, you know that you can use stacks of 8 to enchant your drinks using a single vial.. but it sounds like you aren't using that feature.

thats 8 drinks of 10 uses each = 80 uses

1) i do not want players relying on full health juices to do a fight
1 quaff, bam, just like you started the fight fresh. thats wrong, and seriously imbalances combat.

if this is happening, either A) the player is not in the right place, or B) the player is seriously under equipped, or C) the monsters are overpowered, in which case you need to let me know.

In my little dream world, i dream of every single fight being difficult, hard enough so that a level 30 player versus a level 31 npc will almost get killed, but.. not quite.. because the player is the hero. But i want the combat to be challenging, i dont want the player to die, i just want there to be 'effort' involved in a fight. On harder fights, against super opponents, or opponents which are the objective of a quest to kill, then yes, healing potions seem fine, and fair, not requiring 50 quaffs to kill the creature, but perhaps requiring 1-3 uses of a potion to accomplish the fight.

2) i will consider raising the capacity of these drinks, after the patches are in, and are functioning, and players are used to them.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:29 pm 
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If we called the average mob one level higher then a player 100exp, it would mean 2500 mobs would need to be killed to reach Avatar, 5000 to reach dual-av, and 7500 to reach tri-av.

Now lets think about that. If each one of those fights was challenging to the point the mob almost kills the player, how much of a chance do you want to give the mob to win? One chance in ten? That would statistically mean about 750 deaths for the average tri-av. 1 chance in 100? Hrm, that would be 75 deaths before Tri-av. 1 chance in 1000? That would mean roughly 7.5 deaths before tri-av. Which seems the most reasonable? Which most follows the trends of past game play?


Anyway, back to drink cons? 80 sips from a single red vial is more then fair. However, I am still of the oppion that 10sip containers aren't convient for storage reasons. Each fountain you run across in epic holds about 10 sips of liquid. Epic for long and you would need quite a few 10 sip containers just to carry away the juices from the epic fountains.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:43 pm 
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i think i understand..

do you just want some containers made that can be used to drain epic fountains?
i can create those


my only question, is there a way for players to fill them up with complete heal drinks easily?

will it imbalance things?

because some players are saying "give us 100-200 sip drinks", which is effectively "give us infinite complete heals", which is effectively a drink that never runs out, and will heal the player to 100 percent full health after every quaff
i'm against that :)


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:30 am 
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Personally I think the problem stems from the fact that vials work on all drink cons. I still feel they should be split into flasks (small size, and can use vials) and other containers (larger and can't use vials).

Shouldn't be difficult to code either. Worst part would be manually changing area items to be one or the other. Beakers, vials, some bottles would become flasks. Pitchers, barrels, kegs, tankards, wine bottles and so on would be normal containers. Split container crafting into flasks and drink cons. Would take time, but would be a better end result then what exists.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:50 pm 
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Okay...well one, I didn't know that the 250's were being 'fixed', having been gone for some time and only back enough to keep my account active so I am finding some nasty things out here. I had 1 - 250 sip greater heal left with about 40 sips to it...I have some 250 sip juices left with no magic to them so I wanted another for back up...without finding any of the the reallly good dark red vials I did find a couple of light red vials and I used both of them to make 2 new healing juices.

When the last of my 40 sips was gone I pull out the next healing juice only to find it is a haste juice...so this random switch thing still happens. Course before I can realize that there is a problem I am too far down in hit points to live long and die. So I investigate find out it was making me move faster instead of healing me...great, put it up and get the other one, it says it is lesser heal...okay...fine. Back into the mines I go, (mind you it said 250 sips) get into a scuffle with a seawolf, not bad, its dead after 3 strikes, and I only lost 100 hit points...I got a little more then 600 left, do I take a sip or continue on? I continue on, why waste a heal when I can heal naturally...right? Right after that encounter (before I can heal 1 point) I am in a fight with 4 other seawolfs and before my first blow is struck I have lost 350 points.

Tell my character to quaff I get one little heal of about 100 points, tell him to heal again (meanwhile I have killed 1 seawolf (no experience from either kill) and have another about half way down) and it tells me my drink is empty...no more heals as I watch the 2nd seawolf about to die my character dies first.

After departing and supplicating my corpse and recovering all the items I look at the juice that was, just 10 minutes before a 250 sip juice now says 1 sip...So I come here to see what the heck is up...and I find a thread saying all 250's have been changed to 10's...since when is 1 the same as 10?

I think it is bad enough that random encounters (in my opinion) have always been so hard and almost never do you get any experience for them, now with the healing juice problem I don't know what to think or do. I realize with the simplicity of the leveling system in the game, you have to draw the line somewhere for experience but it isn't right that an encounter can be so deadly and you gain nothing for the encounter if you survive...before my original 250 ran out, I survived about 3 out of 5 random encounters (when facing 3 or more seawolfs or 2 mermaids) because I had it...and all I got in return was maybe enough coin to repair my items that were damaged in the fight.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:37 pm 
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i gave everyone substantial time to give me the 250 sip drinks so that i could fix them, for those of you who thought you would simply horde them to get an upper hand on people, after 8+ months of me being patient, my patience ran out.
Up to this point, all 250 sip drinks were turned into 10 sip drinks.
unless they were turned in, then they were turned into 20 sip drinks (which is the new sip quantity on drinks when newly crafted)
Now, 250 sip drinks which were not turned in are being changed to 1 sip drinks.

It's a two way street, you help out the admins to make the game as a whole better, and everything runs smoothly, you try to cheat, and things run less smoothly.

because i am so nice and forgiving however, i /may/ consider increasing the capacity on a few drinks which have 1 sip max capacity. This is good for a limited time only. - You will need to find me ingame.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:21 pm 
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I'm not really sure how to take your reply Isabelle...my post was to express my shock at what happened with the 250's for sure...and to let you know that sometimes the combination process doesn't always create what it was suppose to create...it was also to express my feelings on how difficult random encounters are, especially to survive and then have nothing as a reward for it...I think if your going to lose exp fleeing a fight then you should receive at least that same amount if you stand there and fight.

But your reply comes right out and says I am/was cheating by not turning in my sips...I'm sorry...as I explained, until recently (maybe a month) I have only logged into my account to keep them active for the last 12-16 months at least...I am slowly making my way through the forums here and had yet to read about the juices.

And after being accused as such I would just as soon dump them all on the ground and sacrifice them then to suffer through your 'nice and forgiving' manner. Don't trouble your little mind over it...I won't find you in game to get them changed, I'll find someone to craft me some new ones...*shesh*


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:12 am 
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I figured out this whole juices changeing effects thingy.

When its in your inventory, and you get a wild surge, sometimes the wild surge cuases a "bubbulng noise" to come from you inventory. This sound indicates that the wild surge has caused the juice to chage effects, therby screwing you over.

And i still have a better suggestion for juices:

Use 10-20 fruit peices to make one single 20-50 sip juice. this way you dont have 20 juices lolling around in your stash, and instead have one with enough sipps in it. This way you dont have to mess with makeing 20 juices with one vial and be forced to haul em around. Make the maximum juice production down to one at a time, with one vial for one juice, and make each juice hold 40 sips or so.
oh, and make it harder to forage fruits and to make it harder to mass produce juice.

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And the angels sang in immaculate chorus, and down from the heavens decended Chuck Norris!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:55 am 
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well grykon, i will not 'worry my little mind over it'
as for your problems with seawolves, i had looked at them at the time of your post and made modifications to them. Hopefully they will be better suited to you.

i will not comment about you not knowing crafted drinks had been changed.

as for my message, even though i used the word 'you' the message was not directed solely at you. It was directed at some people who either were not ambitious enough to tell me about their items, or were purposely trying to conceal them. In some cases, there was no ill intent, in either case, i bear no ill-will to any player in this matter. I simply want the items corrected to help rid the game of at least one severe imbalance.

If you choose not to contact me or one of the admins to have your items corrected, that is your decision.
And as Gilgolad stated, there is no bug with drinks changing effects, just bad luck.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:12 pm 
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Well considering that my character is not a mage of any order and that when I combined the vial and juice it only said the juice looked different. (can't reemmber the exact phrase the game uses at the moment) it makes it a little hard for it to be a wild surge problem. So say it isn't a bug if you want...I'm just trying to help out the admins of the game with a problem I saw.

Thanks for looking at the seawolves, I just flee from them from now on and hope I get away. You don't have to comment on me not knowing, I already told you I didn't.

Yep, it was my decision...and based on no one else commenting on this subject here in about 6 month I think your post was pretty much directed solely at me...maybe in game you have had some discussions I don't know, don't really care...2 seconds of respect works far better then any acid you wish to use instead.

So anyway, they have all been given to maybloom now and you don't have to worry about any of the juices I had...just strikes me as odd that if it was so easy for them to be changed into 1 sips they could have been changed to 10 or 20's just as easy, it was just harder not to be petty and no one wanted to work that hard.

So until I get a crafting skill up to create some non-cheating juices and make some more healing juices out of them...or haste or whatever else the non-bug gives me I guess the character is pretty well screwed...cause as a 30th level fighter I can't seem to find any place that will give him any experience to level that he can survive one fight without some serious healing.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:00 pm 
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My level 30 warrior could solo zoo :P. Woo for the aristocrats with crafted levelling eq made out of good materials...although I suppose that with the current state of things, most people can get eq that's way too good... Hmm...I wonder if I still have 250 sip juice containers anywhere. Maybe I'll check next time I'm on.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:08 pm 
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ty quintos, having them all corrected would be at least 1 thing off my mind.

as for you grykon, my apologies for being harsh with you, i often get that way with people i perceive to be cheating. If you were honestly not aware of juices being changed, you can still find me ingame.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:45 pm 
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Find you for what? I have no juices...I am currently spending more time trying to master apple picking then I did harvesting enchanted wood mastery so I can then try and master juice making.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:47 pm 
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Quintos wrote:
My level 30 warrior could solo zoo :P. Woo for the aristocrats with crafted levelling eq made out of good materials...although I suppose that with the current state of things, most people can get eq that's way too good... Hmm...I wonder if I still have 250 sip juice containers anywhere. Maybe I'll check next time I'm on.


Did you have to use any healing potions? How long ago was this? I hadn't tried there lately...guess I can die there as easy as anywhere else.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:04 am 
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offtopic -

if i may suggest a few things grykon, assuming you are having difficulties levelling, a few pointers which can get you through without requiring crafted equipment. (although i'm sure you can pick some up every so often throughout the course of your levelling career)

-type help levelling - the recommended areas and coordinates are listed there.

-ask people online about easy areas suited to your level

-when people give you the name of an area, find the area, and use it, do not give up in finding it, because chances are good, people have been in your shoes before, and are giving you very good information.

-when levelling in areas (especially bangrath zoo) pick up all the items you get off the corpses, and wear them, check to see if your mobility and attackroll are affected by this item, use whichever is best.

-getting high mobility and attackroll will be beneficial

-getting high dexterity is also beneficial

-never fight while hungry or thirsty, bring food and water with you at all times, otherwise your stats will dwindle significantly.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:35 am 
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However, if you DO manage to get crafted equipment, ignore dexterity and mobility entirely. In its place, get resistances. Also ignore attack roll, maxing strength should give you all the attack roll you need.

Resistances and damage roll are your friend.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:19 pm 
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Yeah...max blunt first as it's the most used, then slash, then pierce...depending where you level, I suppose you might want to do it different than I.

Weems knows what he's talking about.

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